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Diesel vs Gas towing

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Old 06-11-2018, 07:20 AM
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My diesel has almost 1000 lb-ft of torque; of course it will out tow a gas engine.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Manoverboard123 View Post
Yeah you never hear any problems with the Torqueshift. I'm sure it's a great tranny.. But really, Allison is used commercially. They may not use the 1000 series commercially, but the people that build the 1000 build the same transmission in that big ass dump truck or 18 wheeler you pass by. Allison is a proven transmission. Now with that being said, if you are talking about being "stronger" as in adding power to your truck, yes... The Allison's behind the Duramax aren't built to hold up too much more power than what the truck puts out stock.. I think with the old 5 speed Allison's it's rated to only hold up to an extra 10hp..? The 6 speeds are up to an extra 100hp if I'm correct.

Not knocking the torqueshift, but Allison is tried and true. Let's be honest.. The most bombproof truck would be= Early 2000's Ford 250/350 body and frame, 12 valve Cummins, Allison 1000 6 speed. If you some how manage to fuck that rig up, you might want to consider something else besides a pickup truck....
You very rarely, if ever, see an Allison in a tractor trailer. They are nearly 100% manuals, or automated. Big design difference between an automated and an automatic such as an Allison. Allison is common in dump trucks, RV's, concrete trucks, fire trucks, etc. Great units, but not the best for heavy trailer duty. One place the difference comes into play is with dump trucks. If specking one out for strictly dump use, Allison is the way to go. If that same truck is going to pull double duty as an often tow heavy equipment trailers, sticking to a traditional manual or an automated is a better choice, though you will loose some cycle time speed compared to the allison. Biggest difference is automatics use a torque converter, where as an automated essentially uses a traditional clutch, but controls it via a computer rather than a clutch peddle.
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
You very rarely, if ever, see an Allison in a tractor trailer. They are nearly 100% manuals, or automated. Big design difference between an automated and an automatic such as an Allison. Allison is common in dump trucks, RV's, concrete trucks, fire trucks, etc. Great units, but not the best for heavy trailer duty. One place the difference comes into play is with dump trucks. If specking one out for strictly dump use, Allison is the way to go. If that same truck is going to pull double duty as an often tow heavy equipment trailers, sticking to a traditional manual or an automated is a better choice, though you will loose some cycle time speed compared to the allison. Biggest difference is automatics use a torque converter, where as an automated essentially uses a traditional clutch, but controls it via a computer rather than a clutch peddle.

There are a couple of national carriers that use automatics in their trucks(18 wheelers) but they seemed to be having lot of problems last I heard a few years ago. I think Schnieder offered it to their drivers as an option. Not sure if they were Allisons but would guess they were.

As far as the one that GM uses in pickup trucks - they are just SOLID. The ONLY guys having problems are the ones hot-rodding the motor w/o beefing up the Allison to match. No one builds factory transmissions with 30-50% overhead on power rating. If you go that route, even just adding 100 HP, ya need to do the transmission too. I have towed crap with my Allison since day 1, 16+ years ago. Up to ~23,000 lbs and my Allison has been rock solid. Filters and fluid - that's it.
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Back-in-Black View Post
There are a couple of national carriers that use automatics in their trucks(18 wheelers) but they seemed to be having lot of problems last I heard a few years ago. I think Schnieder offered it to their drivers as an option. Not sure if they were Allisons but would guess they were.

As far as the one that GM uses in pickup trucks - they are just SOLID. The ONLY guys having problems are the ones hot-rodding the motor w/o beefing up the Allison to match. No one builds factory transmissions with 30-50% overhead on power rating. If you go that route, even just adding 100 HP, ya need to do the transmission too. I have towed crap with my Allison since day 1, 16+ years ago. Up to ~23,000 lbs and my Allison has been rock solid. Filters and fluid - that's it.
Bulk of those are Eaton Fuller, ZF, or Detroit automated units.

I've messed with all three, and greatly prefer the ZF's to the others, thought they aren't as popular. The ZF's are much easier to control when backing to a dock, and also have a paddle to the right of the column vs steering wheel buttons for manual control.
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:47 PM
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Oh, man! I can finally jump in on one of these gas/diesel conversations with some first-hand experience.
I have 10s of thousands of miles towing with 1/2T and 3/4T pickups/SUVs, mostly gassers, through some rough terrain and up the Alcan Hwy three times. I've towed small loads, like a 6x12/3000# enclosed cargo trailer, much larger enclosed trailers, and a number of different boats up to 28ft/11,000lbs.

My personal vehicles have always been gassers, with the exception of my current rig. I had a '99 F250 with a 5.4L Triton, a '99 5.7L Chevy Tahoe, and several 2000 - 2003 6.8L V10's over the last 15 years in both Excursion and F250 guise. My current truck is a 2017 F350 with the 6.7L diesel. WOW, what a difference! The power is great, but that engine brake is MONEY! I tow through some rather lousy mountain passes, and the engine braking on the long downhill sections is really a stress reliever. My 11,000-pound boat doesn't push me around, like she used to.

I would usually get between 6 - 6.5mpg towing with my V-10 and I'm currently getting 10-10.5mpg towing with the new diesel. Yeah, I really like the diesel, but I've never needed any repairs or serious maintenance yet, either, so I hope I'm still singing its praises 10 years from now. So far, I'm really glad to have made the jump to diesel.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:33 PM
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There ain't a 2018 gas engine made that would tow a loaded down trailer the way my 7.3 with a six speed did this last weekend up fancy gap and through the hills of West Virginia. The new diesels would eat it's lunch but that much is obvious. Just simply effortless...work that transmission and keep it right at 1800-2000 rpm where it likes to be and let the turbo do it's thing. Takes a while to get up to speed but once it's rolling it's like a freight train...99 had 250 hp 525 ft-lb, and mine is bone stock. Tows like a dream.

Go to any campground and take a look at what is towing the new fifth wheels...7.3L diesels and older Cummins trucks.

New gas engines are good but give me a 7.3 or 12V over ANY of them.

Last edited by NCSUboater; 06-13-2018 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by NCSUboater View Post
There ain't a 2018 gas engine made that would tow a loaded down trailer the way my 7.3 with a six speed did this last weekend up fancy gap and through the hills of West Virginia. The new diesels would eat it's lunch but that much is obvious. Just simply effortless...work that transmission and keep it right at 1800-2000 rpm where it likes to be and let the turbo do it's thing. Takes a while to get up to speed but once it's rolling it's like a freight train...99 had 250 hp 525 ft-lb, and mine is bone stock. Tows like a dream.

Go to any campground and take a look at what is towing the new fifth wheels...7.3L diesels and older Cummins trucks.

New gas engines are good but give me a 7.3 or 12V over ANY of them.
Spoil my future plans, my dream is to have a SD gas with fleet packages as I'm cheap to pull my 3500lb max load, why, because I've driven n14 to ISX CUMMINS around 2 million miles, just thankfully I don't have to pay to repair them.
I'm very familiar with 1500 ft lbs of torque at 1100 rpm, I want to hear some gasser scream and work.
No seriously! Mainly because I'm cheap and when retired I won't care what anyone thinks about what I drive!
I drive a Ford Ranger now with 220,000 miles and still don't care, I do like diesels, as long as I don't pay for repairs. Hope this clears things up!
I do love me some old school diesel, 5.9, 7.3, DD 2 smokes like in my 29,000 lb forklift, this should take us off topic now.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bluewaterposer View Post
Spoil my future plans, my dream is to have a SD gas with fleet packages as I'm cheap to pull my 3500lb max load, why, because I've driven n14 to ISX CUMMINS around 2 million miles, just thankfully I don't have to pay to repair them.
I'm very familiar with 1500 ft lbs of torque at 1100 rpm, I want to hear some gasser scream and work.
No seriously! Mainly because I'm cheap and when retired I won't care what anyone thinks about what I drive!
I drive a Ford Ranger now with 220,000 miles and still don't care, I do like diesels, as long as I don't pay for repairs. Hope this clears things up!
I do love me some old school diesel, 5.9, 7.3, DD 2 smokes like in my 29,000 lb forklift, this should take us off topic now.
BWP
Oh man...there ain't a better sound on this planet than a Screamin Jimmy!

Nothing wrong with a gasser, and I've towed with them too...I just much prefer to hear the the turbo spool up when the diesel gets under a load...and it just tows alot easier in my opinion. Plus, truth be told, I love the sound and industrial nature of the old 7.3. Do I need a diesel though? Heck no...but that ain't the point.

And I drive an old 7.3 BECAUSE I'm cheap...they're relatively cheap and easy to maintain.

Don't mean to ruin your plans...we still have an old 460 dump truck with a ZF5. That thing is a torque MONSTER...but you can watch the fuel level drop as you're towing.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:22 AM
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I'm just having fun with the topic, diesel pulls better, I know from experience, with 13-15 liters.
I was just pointing out how cheap I am! Plus I really wouldn't need all the capability offered.
My company has a 110 ISX's, they're not perfect but merely good, fuel pump Tappit issues are coming to might currently on 2014 and up models taking out engine.
Back on topic, yes, if you need the capability of the newer diesels, get it, if you don't then get what you can afford, if you don't work that new diesel it will have some problems.
Now get what you need to pull your boat and enjoy!
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Old 06-14-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisbtr View Post
I tow a 27' cat at about 7k load with an excursion diesel. I am currently putting a new oil cooler in the truck so decided to rent a 2500 to tow it yesterday. They gave me a gas 2017 f250 on a 4 inch lift. Looking at the truck I thought it would be an awesome tow. Surprisingly, it sucked. My diesel EX handles it much better. Any insights on this? You think the lift made much of a difference?
A LIFT is gonna make it tow like crap. Most likely they didn' change the gears or reprogram the computer and shift points. I did a lift on a jeep and it was a dog till we changed gears and reprogramed the computer.

as for gas vs diesel I'll take a gas engine every day for an occasional towing under 10k. Especially with the right gears. I own a fleet of tractors and I am the head mechanic for my fleet we also own several service trucks with diesels. Both of my personal trucks are gas 5.3 and 6.0 1ton and I'll take my 6.0 over a diesel. But that' opinion

A diesel will out tow any gas engine but for occasional use and under 10k a gas engine will serve you better again opinion.

as for the Allison verse an automated manual it really has nothing to do with weight and everything to do with use. Allison transmssions are very costly to properly maintain I high millage applications. However the we have see a high failure rate in the Eaton fuller clutches in automatic transmission use in vocational use and city driving. Essential long haul is better of with Eaton fuller or m/I drive and Alison is king for local work.
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