Ram retakes towing crown
12-02-2020, 02:03 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by motoroilmccall
It's a joke cajflynn... that's where tire pressure rating go. We don't check those either since we rarely run factory tires...
You can certainly pull almost anything you want with a 1 ton truck (or 3/4 ton for that matter)... They have enough power to pull just about anything on wheels (seriously, you ever seen the videos of them pulling a Boeing 737-800? Those weigh >700,000lbs). And yes, I've pulled >50K lbs with a 3/4 truck down a public road, but at about 20mph tops, and only a few miles.
I'm with you IMP... yeah, you can pull anything, but doing so responsibly is a different matter. I really think the manufacturers are exposing themselves to lawsuits when a 1 ton truck gets in a wreck because some nitwit got out of control, but then says it was within the trucks ratings (not that I agree with that logic, but it's the sad world we live in now, sue anyone possibly connected to a bad situation).
You can certainly pull almost anything you want with a 1 ton truck (or 3/4 ton for that matter)... They have enough power to pull just about anything on wheels (seriously, you ever seen the videos of them pulling a Boeing 737-800? Those weigh >700,000lbs). And yes, I've pulled >50K lbs with a 3/4 truck down a public road, but at about 20mph tops, and only a few miles.
I'm with you IMP... yeah, you can pull anything, but doing so responsibly is a different matter. I really think the manufacturers are exposing themselves to lawsuits when a 1 ton truck gets in a wreck because some nitwit got out of control, but then says it was within the trucks ratings (not that I agree with that logic, but it's the sad world we live in now, sue anyone possibly connected to a bad situation).
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12-02-2020, 02:52 PM
#22
Member
Originally Posted by cajflynn
Your remarks do not take into account the braking systems the trailers may or may not have.
There's a reason big vehicles use air brakes (which none of these trucks do, stock at least, there are aftermarket systems, but I don't know of any that are DOT approved, therefore, impossible to legally put on a OTR trailer... farm use is different, obviously). Air brakes are a safety issue. They engage with a LACK of pressure, not by applying pressure. This means, if the trailer comes disconnected from the truck, its brakes engage and stop the trailer. You can't do that with electric or electric/hydraulic brakes. Break-away brakes kind of do this, but with a battery powered system, which is less than perfectly mechanically reliable...and without redundant backups should it fail (unlike an air brake system, which has multiple chambers to rely on).
Long story short, there's a reason for OTR tractors. It's not just because they have big pulling power, and air systems... it's because they're properly designed and engineered to handle the kinds of weights some people are now trying to pull with a pickup truck...
FYI, I have a bit of background in this... I was a test engineer at a Tier 1 OEM supplier for a few years. Then a hydraulics/motion control engineer for a major aerospace company, and now I sell Naval system controls for the same company. I've held a CDL w. air brake endorsement (and others). Hauled livestock, farm equipment, cars/trucks, boats, you name it. Driven everything up to Class VIII trucks. I'm not saying it can't be done with a pickup truck... just that it shouldn't for safety reasons.
Last edited by motoroilmccall; 12-02-2020 at 02:57 PM.
12-02-2020, 02:58 PM
#23
Senior Member
Originally Posted by cajflynn
Your remarks do not take into account the braking systems the trailers may or may not have.
12-02-2020, 03:48 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by cajflynn
Anyone with an opinion actually work a truck or you guys just pick them based on the colors offered?
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12-02-2020, 05:12 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by motoroilmccall
No offense, you seem like a sharp guy, but this doesn't seem like your element. You look like you have hauled big boats based on your site, but I'm guessing with an OTR tractor, or at least Class V+ truck. Way different than a pickup.
There's a reason big vehicles use air brakes (which none of these trucks do, stock at least, there are aftermarket systems, but I don't know of any that are DOT approved, therefore, impossible to legally put on a OTR trailer... farm use is different, obviously). Air brakes are a safety issue. They engage with a LACK of pressure, not by applying pressure. This means, if the trailer comes disconnected from the truck, its brakes engage and stop the trailer. You can't do that with electric or electric/hydraulic brakes. Break-away brakes kind of do this, but with a battery powered system, which is less than perfectly mechanically reliable...and without redundant backups should it fail (unlike an air brake system, which has multiple chambers to rely on).
Long story short, there's a reason for OTR tractors. It's not just because they have big pulling power, and air systems... it's because they're properly designed and engineered to handle the kinds of weights some people are now trying to pull with a pickup truck...
FYI, I have a bit of background in this... I was a test engineer at a Tier 1 OEM supplier for a few years. Then a hydraulics/motion control engineer for a major aerospace company, and now I sell Naval system controls for the same company. I've held a CDL w. air brake endorsement (and others). Hauled livestock, farm equipment, cars/trucks, boats, you name it. Driven everything up to Class VIII trucks. I'm not saying it can't be done with a pickup truck... just that it shouldn't for safety reasons.
There's a reason big vehicles use air brakes (which none of these trucks do, stock at least, there are aftermarket systems, but I don't know of any that are DOT approved, therefore, impossible to legally put on a OTR trailer... farm use is different, obviously). Air brakes are a safety issue. They engage with a LACK of pressure, not by applying pressure. This means, if the trailer comes disconnected from the truck, its brakes engage and stop the trailer. You can't do that with electric or electric/hydraulic brakes. Break-away brakes kind of do this, but with a battery powered system, which is less than perfectly mechanically reliable...and without redundant backups should it fail (unlike an air brake system, which has multiple chambers to rely on).
Long story short, there's a reason for OTR tractors. It's not just because they have big pulling power, and air systems... it's because they're properly designed and engineered to handle the kinds of weights some people are now trying to pull with a pickup truck...
FYI, I have a bit of background in this... I was a test engineer at a Tier 1 OEM supplier for a few years. Then a hydraulics/motion control engineer for a major aerospace company, and now I sell Naval system controls for the same company. I've held a CDL w. air brake endorsement (and others). Hauled livestock, farm equipment, cars/trucks, boats, you name it. Driven everything up to Class VIII trucks. I'm not saying it can't be done with a pickup truck... just that it shouldn't for safety reasons.
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12-03-2020, 12:28 PM
#26
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Boat Hound
That's harsh. I pick based upon the wheel options and how big the radio screen is.
Kidding aside, an acquaintance was looking at 2 different trucks (both loaded) and the final decision was based on tow capacity - one of them exceeded the other by a couple hundred pounds, so he picked the higher one.
To the best of my knowledge, that truck never saw a trailer hitch the entire time he owned it.
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12-03-2020, 12:33 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by jobowker
Don't tell me you are neglecting to count cupholders! Very important in a truck.
Kidding aside, an acquaintance was looking at 2 different trucks (both loaded) and the final decision was based on tow capacity - one of them exceeded the other by a couple hundred pounds, so he picked the higher one.
To the best of my knowledge, that truck never saw a trailer hitch the entire time he owned it.
Kidding aside, an acquaintance was looking at 2 different trucks (both loaded) and the final decision was based on tow capacity - one of them exceeded the other by a couple hundred pounds, so he picked the higher one.
To the best of my knowledge, that truck never saw a trailer hitch the entire time he owned it.
12-03-2020, 12:57 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by tbaxl
People that have trucks and use them like trucks tow heavy all the time, real heavy. Ask a farmer sometime what his heaviest load has been, or a boat transporter, I’ve seen a D6 Cat behind an F450 more than once and no it was not in a wreck. Lots a folks folks pull heavy, just usually get the work done before the rest of the world wakes up.
12-03-2020, 01:12 PM
#29
Senior Member
Originally Posted by autobaun70
What on earth kind of trailer did someone have behind a F450 that could support a D6? A D6 weighs 50K by itself. Any trailer remotely capable of hauling it will weigh 8K to 10K by itself. That's a 45K GVW trailer like gets pulled behind a dump truck. No F450 on earth is moving 60K towed weight down the road.
Any F450 can likely Tow 60k down the road. from point A to point B, It just will not tow it all that safely. My RAM2500 may or may not have hauled 25k worth of damp sand many times, but i would betcha that it can.
12-03-2020, 01:14 PM
#30
Senior Member
Originally Posted by cajflynn
I have around 1.5m miles towing boats with a dually. I find your comments lacking of substance and at best simply emotional. If you'd like to discuss actual issues and can demonstrate factual knowledge, I'd be glad to have the conversation. If you just going to keep crying about how big the trucks are, I'm not really interested.
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12-03-2020, 01:19 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by bigfish55
Any F450 can likely Tow 60k down the road. from point A to point B, It just will not tow it all that safely. My RAM2500 may or may not have hauled 25k worth of damp sand many times, but i would betcha that it can.
12-03-2020, 02:07 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by autobaun70
This I don't doubt....but logistically it's not very feasible unless you rig up some sort of nonsensical air brake setup just to let the thing roll. Air brake trailers won't move without air....and any trailer capable of supporting a 50K D6 without bending in half is gonna have them.
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12-03-2020, 02:14 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by cajflynn
I've seen 450 Searay's towed with 450's. I don't agree with it but I've seen it.
12-03-2020, 02:31 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by autobaun70
for sure, but from a practical standpoint, that sea ray trailer will actually move without hooking up air. 25 ton tag along deck over will just drag the tires. And that’s not even taking into account that the thing likely has hydraulic ramps because they are too heavy to lift without assistance.
12-04-2020, 07:13 PM
#36
Ah, towing the most weight is no big deal. Seldom does anyone use 100% of a light diesel truck's towing capability anyway.
If someone needs to tow more weight, they can go with a F450 cab and chassis with a tow bed that's a class above the Ram's. Or, F550's which have the old straight front axle and are actually a mid size truck frame--not light truck.
If someone needs to tow more weight, they can go with a F450 cab and chassis with a tow bed that's a class above the Ram's. Or, F550's which have the old straight front axle and are actually a mid size truck frame--not light truck.
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12-09-2020, 06:04 AM
#39
Senior Member
Originally Posted by motoroilmccall
No offense, you seem like a sharp guy, but this doesn't seem like your element. You look like you have hauled big boats based on your site, but I'm guessing with an OTR tractor, or at least Class V+ truck. Way different than a pickup.
There's a reason big vehicles use air brakes (which none of these trucks do, stock at least, there are aftermarket systems, but I don't know of any that are DOT approved, therefore, impossible to legally put on a OTR trailer... farm use is different, obviously). Air brakes are a safety issue. They engage with a LACK of pressure, not by applying pressure. This means, if the trailer comes disconnected from the truck, its brakes engage and stop the trailer. You can't do that with electric or electric/hydraulic brakes. Break-away brakes kind of do this, but with a battery powered system, which is less than perfectly mechanically reliable...and without redundant backups should it fail (unlike an air brake system, which has multiple chambers to rely on).
Long story short, there's a reason for OTR tractors. It's not just because they have big pulling power, and air systems... it's because they're properly designed and engineered to handle the kinds of weights some people are now trying to pull with a pickup truck...
FYI, I have a bit of background in this... I was a test engineer at a Tier 1 OEM supplier for a few years. Then a hydraulics/motion control engineer for a major aerospace company, and now I sell Naval system controls for the same company. I've held a CDL w. air brake endorsement (and others). Hauled livestock, farm equipment, cars/trucks, boats, you name it. Driven everything up to Class VIII trucks. I'm not saying it can't be done with a pickup truck... just that it shouldn't for safety reasons.
There's a reason big vehicles use air brakes (which none of these trucks do, stock at least, there are aftermarket systems, but I don't know of any that are DOT approved, therefore, impossible to legally put on a OTR trailer... farm use is different, obviously). Air brakes are a safety issue. They engage with a LACK of pressure, not by applying pressure. This means, if the trailer comes disconnected from the truck, its brakes engage and stop the trailer. You can't do that with electric or electric/hydraulic brakes. Break-away brakes kind of do this, but with a battery powered system, which is less than perfectly mechanically reliable...and without redundant backups should it fail (unlike an air brake system, which has multiple chambers to rely on).
Long story short, there's a reason for OTR tractors. It's not just because they have big pulling power, and air systems... it's because they're properly designed and engineered to handle the kinds of weights some people are now trying to pull with a pickup truck...
FYI, I have a bit of background in this... I was a test engineer at a Tier 1 OEM supplier for a few years. Then a hydraulics/motion control engineer for a major aerospace company, and now I sell Naval system controls for the same company. I've held a CDL w. air brake endorsement (and others). Hauled livestock, farm equipment, cars/trucks, boats, you name it. Driven everything up to Class VIII trucks. I'm not saying it can't be done with a pickup truck... just that it shouldn't for safety reasons.
NCDMV is starting to crackdown on utility contractors moving mini-excavators (10,000 to 14,000 lbs) behind dually pickups without CDL drivers. One of our subs had his rig parked by DMV a couple of weeks ago because the driver was not properly licensed.
