Notices

Ram retakes towing crown

Old 12-02-2020, 02:03 PM
  #21  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
THT sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Palm
Posts: 6,939
Received 2,240 Likes on 1,256 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by motoroilmccall View Post
It's a joke cajflynn... that's where tire pressure rating go. We don't check those either since we rarely run factory tires...

You can certainly pull almost anything you want with a 1 ton truck (or 3/4 ton for that matter)... They have enough power to pull just about anything on wheels (seriously, you ever seen the videos of them pulling a Boeing 737-800? Those weigh >700,000lbs). And yes, I've pulled >50K lbs with a 3/4 truck down a public road, but at about 20mph tops, and only a few miles.

I'm with you IMP... yeah, you can pull anything, but doing so responsibly is a different matter. I really think the manufacturers are exposing themselves to lawsuits when a 1 ton truck gets in a wreck because some nitwit got out of control, but then says it was within the trucks ratings (not that I agree with that logic, but it's the sad world we live in now, sue anyone possibly connected to a bad situation).
Your remarks do not take into account the braking systems the trailers may or may not have.
Likes:
Old 12-02-2020, 02:52 PM
  #22  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Buffalo, NY and Cortez, FL
Posts: 66
Received 35 Likes on 20 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by cajflynn View Post
Your remarks do not take into account the braking systems the trailers may or may not have.
No offense, you seem like a sharp guy, but this doesn't seem like your element. You look like you have hauled big boats based on your site, but I'm guessing with an OTR tractor, or at least Class V+ truck. Way different than a pickup.

There's a reason big vehicles use air brakes (which none of these trucks do, stock at least, there are aftermarket systems, but I don't know of any that are DOT approved, therefore, impossible to legally put on a OTR trailer... farm use is different, obviously). Air brakes are a safety issue. They engage with a LACK of pressure, not by applying pressure. This means, if the trailer comes disconnected from the truck, its brakes engage and stop the trailer. You can't do that with electric or electric/hydraulic brakes. Break-away brakes kind of do this, but with a battery powered system, which is less than perfectly mechanically reliable...and without redundant backups should it fail (unlike an air brake system, which has multiple chambers to rely on).

Long story short, there's a reason for OTR tractors. It's not just because they have big pulling power, and air systems... it's because they're properly designed and engineered to handle the kinds of weights some people are now trying to pull with a pickup truck...

FYI, I have a bit of background in this... I was a test engineer at a Tier 1 OEM supplier for a few years. Then a hydraulics/motion control engineer for a major aerospace company, and now I sell Naval system controls for the same company. I've held a CDL w. air brake endorsement (and others). Hauled livestock, farm equipment, cars/trucks, boats, you name it. Driven everything up to Class VIII trucks. I'm not saying it can't be done with a pickup truck... just that it shouldn't for safety reasons.

Last edited by motoroilmccall; 12-02-2020 at 02:57 PM.
Old 12-02-2020, 02:58 PM
  #23  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
slper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lakeland, Fl
Posts: 4,486
Received 1,007 Likes on 441 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by cajflynn View Post
Your remarks do not take into account the braking systems the trailers may or may not have.
Spot on! Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Everyone has talked about pulling, no one has talked about stopping. The correctly equipped trainer is important....Like an awesome set of trailer brakes.
Old 12-02-2020, 03:48 PM
  #24  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Seacoast NH
Posts: 6,749
Received 1,633 Likes on 747 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by cajflynn View Post
Anyone with an opinion actually work a truck or you guys just pick them based on the colors offered?
That's harsh. I pick based upon the wheel options and how big the radio screen is.
Old 12-02-2020, 05:12 PM
  #25  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
THT sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Palm
Posts: 6,939
Received 2,240 Likes on 1,256 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by motoroilmccall View Post
No offense, you seem like a sharp guy, but this doesn't seem like your element. You look like you have hauled big boats based on your site, but I'm guessing with an OTR tractor, or at least Class V+ truck. Way different than a pickup.

There's a reason big vehicles use air brakes (which none of these trucks do, stock at least, there are aftermarket systems, but I don't know of any that are DOT approved, therefore, impossible to legally put on a OTR trailer... farm use is different, obviously). Air brakes are a safety issue. They engage with a LACK of pressure, not by applying pressure. This means, if the trailer comes disconnected from the truck, its brakes engage and stop the trailer. You can't do that with electric or electric/hydraulic brakes. Break-away brakes kind of do this, but with a battery powered system, which is less than perfectly mechanically reliable...and without redundant backups should it fail (unlike an air brake system, which has multiple chambers to rely on).

Long story short, there's a reason for OTR tractors. It's not just because they have big pulling power, and air systems... it's because they're properly designed and engineered to handle the kinds of weights some people are now trying to pull with a pickup truck...

FYI, I have a bit of background in this... I was a test engineer at a Tier 1 OEM supplier for a few years. Then a hydraulics/motion control engineer for a major aerospace company, and now I sell Naval system controls for the same company. I've held a CDL w. air brake endorsement (and others). Hauled livestock, farm equipment, cars/trucks, boats, you name it. Driven everything up to Class VIII trucks. I'm not saying it can't be done with a pickup truck... just that it shouldn't for safety reasons.
I have around 1.5m miles towing boats with a dually. I find your comments lacking of substance and at best simply emotional. If you'd like to discuss actual issues and can demonstrate factual knowledge, I'd be glad to have the conversation. If you just going to keep crying about how big the trucks are, I'm not really interested.
Likes:
Old 12-03-2020, 12:28 PM
  #26  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Saugus, Ma. USA
Posts: 12,385
Received 1,705 Likes on 951 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Boat Hound View Post
That's harsh. I pick based upon the wheel options and how big the radio screen is.
Don't tell me you are neglecting to count cupholders! Very important in a truck.

Kidding aside, an acquaintance was looking at 2 different trucks (both loaded) and the final decision was based on tow capacity - one of them exceeded the other by a couple hundred pounds, so he picked the higher one.
To the best of my knowledge, that truck never saw a trailer hitch the entire time he owned it.
Likes:
Old 12-03-2020, 12:33 PM
  #27  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
THT sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Palm
Posts: 6,939
Received 2,240 Likes on 1,256 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jobowker View Post
Don't tell me you are neglecting to count cupholders! Very important in a truck.

Kidding aside, an acquaintance was looking at 2 different trucks (both loaded) and the final decision was based on tow capacity - one of them exceeded the other by a couple hundred pounds, so he picked the higher one.
To the best of my knowledge, that truck never saw a trailer hitch the entire time he owned it.
No lie, my biggest complaint about the 2018 Chevy was the location of the cup holder.
Old 12-03-2020, 12:57 PM
  #28  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Suburb of Sugar Tit SC
Posts: 14,331
Received 9,216 Likes on 4,974 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tbaxl View Post
People that have trucks and use them like trucks tow heavy all the time, real heavy. Ask a farmer sometime what his heaviest load has been, or a boat transporter, I’ve seen a D6 Cat behind an F450 more than once and no it was not in a wreck. Lots a folks folks pull heavy, just usually get the work done before the rest of the world wakes up.
What on earth kind of trailer did someone have behind a F450 that could support a D6? A D6 weighs 50K by itself. Any trailer remotely capable of hauling it will weigh 8K to 10K by itself. That's a 45K GVW trailer like gets pulled behind a dump truck. No F450 on earth is moving 60K towed weight down the road.
Old 12-03-2020, 01:12 PM
  #29  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: St. Aug FL
Posts: 780
Received 212 Likes on 121 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
What on earth kind of trailer did someone have behind a F450 that could support a D6? A D6 weighs 50K by itself. Any trailer remotely capable of hauling it will weigh 8K to 10K by itself. That's a 45K GVW trailer like gets pulled behind a dump truck. No F450 on earth is moving 60K towed weight down the road.

Any F450 can likely Tow 60k down the road. from point A to point B, It just will not tow it all that safely. My RAM2500 may or may not have hauled 25k worth of damp sand many times, but i would betcha that it can.
Old 12-03-2020, 01:14 PM
  #30  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: St. Aug FL
Posts: 780
Received 212 Likes on 121 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by cajflynn View Post
I have around 1.5m miles towing boats with a dually. I find your comments lacking of substance and at best simply emotional. If you'd like to discuss actual issues and can demonstrate factual knowledge, I'd be glad to have the conversation. If you just going to keep crying about how big the trucks are, I'm not really interested.
No need arguing with this guy. He already said he was an "engineer". That usually means a lot of studying on something, but doing little of the actual thing he has been studying. If i need some good heavy boat towing advice i am asking cajflynn, not the engineer.
Likes:
Old 12-03-2020, 01:19 PM
  #31  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Suburb of Sugar Tit SC
Posts: 14,331
Received 9,216 Likes on 4,974 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bigfish55 View Post
Any F450 can likely Tow 60k down the road. from point A to point B, It just will not tow it all that safely. My RAM2500 may or may not have hauled 25k worth of damp sand many times, but i would betcha that it can.
This I don't doubt....but logistically it's not very feasible unless you rig up some sort of nonsensical air brake setup just to let the thing roll. Air brake trailers won't move without air....and any trailer capable of supporting a 50K D6 without bending in half is gonna have them.
Old 12-03-2020, 02:07 PM
  #32  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
THT sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Palm
Posts: 6,939
Received 2,240 Likes on 1,256 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
This I don't doubt....but logistically it's not very feasible unless you rig up some sort of nonsensical air brake setup just to let the thing roll. Air brake trailers won't move without air....and any trailer capable of supporting a 50K D6 without bending in half is gonna have them.
I've seen 450 Searay's towed with 450's. I don't agree with it but I've seen it.
Likes:
Old 12-03-2020, 02:14 PM
  #33  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Suburb of Sugar Tit SC
Posts: 14,331
Received 9,216 Likes on 4,974 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by cajflynn View Post
I've seen 450 Searay's towed with 450's. I don't agree with it but I've seen it.
for sure, but from a practical standpoint, that sea ray trailer will actually move without hooking up air. 25 ton tag along deck over will just drag the tires. And that’s not even taking into account that the thing likely has hydraulic ramps because they are too heavy to lift without assistance.
Old 12-03-2020, 02:31 PM
  #34  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
THT sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Palm
Posts: 6,939
Received 2,240 Likes on 1,256 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
for sure, but from a practical standpoint, that sea ray trailer will actually move without hooking up air. 25 ton tag along deck over will just drag the tires. And that’s not even taking into account that the thing likely has hydraulic ramps because they are too heavy to lift without assistance.
I don’t know anything about heavy equipment. I defer to your expertise.
Old 12-04-2020, 05:19 PM
  #35  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Topsail, NC
Posts: 2,701
Received 90 Likes on 63 Posts
Default

Now if they could just reel in those 2 foot side rear view mirrors.
Old 12-04-2020, 07:13 PM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,644
Received 364 Likes on 287 Posts
Default

Ah, towing the most weight is no big deal. Seldom does anyone use 100% of a light diesel truck's towing capability anyway.

If someone needs to tow more weight, they can go with a F450 cab and chassis with a tow bed that's a class above the Ram's. Or, F550's which have the old straight front axle and are actually a mid size truck frame--not light truck.
Old 12-09-2020, 05:08 AM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bayville NJ
Posts: 990
Received 151 Likes on 95 Posts
Default

Cup holders??

Real men drive with a roll of duct tape on the floor.
Likes:
Old 12-09-2020, 05:26 AM
  #38  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broadway/Snead's Ferry,NC
Posts: 4,483
Received 103 Likes on 62 Posts
Default

I love to see the power wars end and they start a battle to be the most reliable every year.
Old 12-09-2020, 06:04 AM
  #39  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Fayetteville/Morehead City, NC
Posts: 1,428
Received 182 Likes on 111 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by motoroilmccall View Post
No offense, you seem like a sharp guy, but this doesn't seem like your element. You look like you have hauled big boats based on your site, but I'm guessing with an OTR tractor, or at least Class V+ truck. Way different than a pickup.

There's a reason big vehicles use air brakes (which none of these trucks do, stock at least, there are aftermarket systems, but I don't know of any that are DOT approved, therefore, impossible to legally put on a OTR trailer... farm use is different, obviously). Air brakes are a safety issue. They engage with a LACK of pressure, not by applying pressure. This means, if the trailer comes disconnected from the truck, its brakes engage and stop the trailer. You can't do that with electric or electric/hydraulic brakes. Break-away brakes kind of do this, but with a battery powered system, which is less than perfectly mechanically reliable...and without redundant backups should it fail (unlike an air brake system, which has multiple chambers to rely on).

Long story short, there's a reason for OTR tractors. It's not just because they have big pulling power, and air systems... it's because they're properly designed and engineered to handle the kinds of weights some people are now trying to pull with a pickup truck...

FYI, I have a bit of background in this... I was a test engineer at a Tier 1 OEM supplier for a few years. Then a hydraulics/motion control engineer for a major aerospace company, and now I sell Naval system controls for the same company. I've held a CDL w. air brake endorsement (and others). Hauled livestock, farm equipment, cars/trucks, boats, you name it. Driven everything up to Class VIII trucks. I'm not saying it can't be done with a pickup truck... just that it shouldn't for safety reasons.
I'm with you. We regularly haul construction equipment from 40,000 lbs to 70,000 lbs., but it's on 5 or 6 axles with 18 or 22 tires and air brakes on each axle. There's no way in hell I'd haul 35,000 lbs. with a glorified pickup truck and electric brakes.

NCDMV is starting to crackdown on utility contractors moving mini-excavators (10,000 to 14,000 lbs) behind dually pickups without CDL drivers. One of our subs had his rig parked by DMV a couple of weeks ago because the driver was not properly licensed.
Old 12-09-2020, 07:12 AM
  #40  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Annapolis MD USA
Posts: 1,114
Received 275 Likes on 187 Posts
Default

Heavy is the head that wears the crown... especially on THT.
B
Likes:
Joe

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.