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300,000 GVWR and never needs gas.

Old 06-14-2019, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jheiii View Post
Agreed, though even today's modern day cars with more than capable sounding engines have engine sounds plumbed into the cabin to recreate/enhance engine sounds. Can probably get an electric Tesla then use the 72 inch in dash tablet to select "Ferrari 275 GTB/4 mode" now that'd be something I'll listen to all day.
Baseball cards in the spokes???
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:05 AM
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"The CEO reiterated that it’s going to be a “Blade Runner-like” truck design – something he has been saying for a while now, but it’s hard to know exactly what he means."

Fark that, no way! Gimme a traditional truck that functions like a truck.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Boataholic View Post
"
Fark that, no way! Gimme a traditional truck that functions like a truck.
But Binky..think how it will look at the club..."
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:23 AM
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Wow that's pathetic range.
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dekarate View Post
So a trip to FL would take 3 days - cross-country a week. May need to think about bring back the horse - doesn't need gas either.
So drop $50k and it meets 90% of the trips one would take? Would you buy a computer that only runs 90% of the time you turn it on? (Well, with Windows you may already be there).
An alarm clock that didn't wake you up once a week when you need to get to work? Buy a gun that only fire 90% of the time?
Elon as great salesman - not so much the forward thinking engineer the press makes him out to be
Tesla’s nationwide supercharger coverage has pretty much solved the long distance travel difficulty with an electric vehicle. As long as you charge coincidentally with food/restroom breaks, I’ve never had to wait around for the car to charge using the existing 120kW chargers. Usually my bladder is the limiting factor when trying to drive 500+ miles a day. I’d imagine a similar experience with the pickup truck since the 250kW chargers should be rolled out to most places along the interstates by the time it goes into mass production.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jheiii View Post
Wow that's pathetic range.
That is poor range, even if the truck has 2 100d battery packs, it will have a 200 mile effective range IF THE AC IS OFF. I like the ac on so 170 mile? 180 mile? range. Then you need 2 hours at a 100kw charger. I have about 127,000 hours left to live. I don't want to spend any waiting on a charge.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dekarate View Post
So a trip to FL would take 3 days - cross-country a week. May need to think about bring back the horse - doesn't need gas either.
So drop $50k and it meets 90% of the trips one would take? Would you buy a computer that only runs 90% of the time you turn it on? (Well, with Windows you may already be there).
An alarm clock that didn't wake you up once a week when you need to get to work? Buy a gun that only fire 90% of the time?
Elon as great salesman - not so much the forward thinking engineer the press makes him out to be
Your horse analogy is humorous. =] But I think you are intentionally omitting the fact that many people never tow outside their county/state. This vehicle is engineered for those folks.

Who knows ? Maybe the future will bring us a network of fast-chargers just as pervasive as gas-stations are today? Meanwhile, it is great to see so much progress with vehicle electrification.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlie in TX View Post
For me (and everyone is different), a 500 mile elec truck would work for 90% of the miles I drive. The biggest is trips to the deer lease. It is a 600ish mile round trip with ac on. No electricity when I get to the lease. So I would have to run a generator to make the trip. Or I can keep my Power Wagon and the $40k additional for a battery powered truck. I do like my PW.
Originally Posted by Captain_0bvious View Post
Your horse analogy is humorous. =] But I think you are intentionally omitting the fact that many people never tow outside their county/state. This vehicle is engineered for those folks.

Who knows ? Maybe the future will bring us a network of fast-chargers just as pervasive as gas-stations are today? Meanwhile, it is great to see so much progress with vehicle electrification.
Was reading an interesting article on Jalopnik and I was surprised when I visited the site of EV charging service providers that they mentioned in their article. There are a heck of a lot more out there than what I thought. Some are even remote. They note 66,786 total charging locations. Check it out: https://na.chargepoint.com/charge_point

Also, here are three articles about fast chargers that are coming/here:
https://jalopnik.com/vw-to-install-u...-at-1825356247
https://jalopnik.com/bmw-and-porsche...ere-1831081832
https://jalopnik.com/chevron-and-evg...gas-1834905076
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Neuner View Post
Was reading an interesting article on Jalopnik and I was surprised when I visited the site of EV charging service providers that they mentioned in their article. There are a heck of a lot more out there than what I thought. Some are even remote. They note 66,786 total charging locations. Check it out: https://na.chargepoint.com/charge_point

Also, here are three articles about fast chargers that are coming/here:
https://jalopnik.com/vw-to-install-u...-at-1825356247
https://jalopnik.com/bmw-and-porsche...ere-1831081832
https://jalopnik.com/chevron-and-evg...gas-1834905076
(from your top link) Can't make this statement about every city but by me, there are exactly 0 that are what I would call public access. There seems to be one at every car dealer that sells evs. But I am in the oil capital. I could see other locations being much more ev friendly.

The 3 minute charge (3rd link) will get you 62 miles. Not bad. 15 minutes for a 80% charge, meh. It is a 450kw charger and your car has to be built for it. That can be done in future production. Let us talk about how much power 450kw is. At 450v 3 phase that is 600 amps. But wait. You can't just charge 1 at a time. Lets say 5 cars charging at a time. That is 3000 amps. So, let us back up and approach this in a different manner. If this 5 slot fast charge station was to be off grid powered by a generator. 450kw * 5 is 2250kw. That is a nonstandard size but 2500kw is standard. The prime mover is a 5000hp diesel motor. That is the size motor in a locomotive. And your first reply to that should be, but these facilities will be on grid. They don't need a local generator. While true. The power companies have to be able to supply that much power (think large wire and transformers). Further, the genrating companies charge for both energy used as well as peak demand. The power providers have to keep a certain percentage of that load in reserve. They charge you for this capacity used or unused.

I am an electrical engineer. I spend a significant amount of time on US Navy ships. I build generator controls. Many of these ships use 2500kw generators (3 per ship). They use 2 at a time. So an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer can be battle ready or it can charge 10 cars.

Last edited by Charlie in TX; 06-19-2019 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlie in TX View Post
(from your top link) Can't make this statement about every city but by me, there are exactly 0 that are what I would call public access. There seems to be one at every car dealer that sells evs. But I am in the oil capital. I could see other locations being much more ev friendly.
Ahhh, you out there in Midland? I'm in SAT. No, the answer isn't there yet. I just thought those articles were interesting since I hadn't heard that things had gotten that far yet. Be funny working in the oil industry driving a fleet of EVs......
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlie in TX View Post
Further, the genrating companies charge for both energy used as well as peak demand. The power providers have to keep a certain percentage of that load in reserve. They charge you for this capacity used or unused.
This is why Tesla plans to integrate their grid power storage technology into the rollout of the 3rd generation super chargers - in order to reduce peak demands. If you look at the financial success of the Tesla-built Hornsdale Power Reserve, and American utilities adopt this technology for grid stabilization, it should result in a cost effective and relatively simple way to deal with spikes in demand that are created by a large number of vehicles charging at 100+ kW.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:00 PM
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If your Tesla runs out of electricity, will AAA bring you a battery???
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by billinstuart View Post
If your Tesla runs out of electricity, will AAA bring you a battery???
Yes.

https://newsroom.aaa.com/2011/07/ev-charging-statio/
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by COrocket View Post
Well raise my rent...
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:17 PM
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Don't forget transmission losses for the electric recharge as well. Simple physics is that the petroleum offers the best bang for the buck or more importantly bang for the pound and for prime movers - its most efficient to make the power where you use it. Lithium battery chemistry offered a leap over the lead-acid battery storage. We need another break thru or probably 2 to get to be realistic efficiency point.

Take a look at Tesla's Power Wall and its about 13kwh - so you would need 5 just to re-charge your 60D car battery pack. That's $33k for the storage pack. Figure the breakeven point on that.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dekarate View Post
Take a look at Tesla's Power Wall and its about 13kwh - so you would need 5 just to re-charge your 60D car battery pack. That's $33k for the storage pack. Figure the breakeven point on that.
In an isolated residential setting the break even could be a decade or more. If the power walls are deployed on a larger scale and connected to the power grid for frequency control and load shifting (as they would be if installed in conjunction with Tesla superchargers) the payback is 12-18 months and after that would either save money for utilities or be a profit center for Tesla, depending on who is running the equipment. Car manufacturing isn’t a high margin business regardless and isn’t the make or break point for Tesla...but if they can continue expanding at their current pace in the energy production and distribution business (essentially selling “fuel” for their fleet) that’s where the real money is. No other car company has figured that out or voluntarily invested in charging infrastructure until very recently. Now everyone is allegedly shifting to electric vehicles and playing catch up. The next few years will be interesting to see who’s being serious on that claim.
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Old 06-20-2019, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dekarate View Post
Don't forget transmission losses for the electric recharge as well. Simple physics is that the petroleum offers the best bang for the buck or more importantly bang for the pound and for prime movers - its most efficient to make the power where you use it.
Yes, petro has more energy per mass but ICE is only 20-30% efficient. Electric motors are 80-90% efficient.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuner View Post
Yes, petro has more energy per mass but ICE is only 20-30% efficient. Electric motors are 80-90% efficient.
But how are you charing the battery? Electrics motors can be efficient - but its the rest of the energy cycle - charging efficiency, storage efficiency, transmission line efficiency, generation station efficiency. Start multiplying a series of 90% together and the overall cycle drops pretty quick. And that generator end efficiency isn't any where close to 90%
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by dekarate View Post
But how are you charing the battery? Electrics motors can be efficient - but its the rest of the energy cycle - charging efficiency, storage efficiency, transmission line efficiency, generation station efficiency. Start multiplying a series of 90% together and the overall cycle drops pretty quick. And that generator end efficiency isn't any where close to 90%
The 'efficiencies' do not correlate in your simple comparison. You're forgetting the other part of the equation in your comparison. If you're going to try and add in all of those factors then you need to dive into a drowning muck of calculating how long it takes for the earth to produce oil, us to extract it, refine it, transport it, clean up after it, etc. If you're wanting to get into that, you should make it a proper scientific discussion on the appropriate medium, not a boating forum.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by dekarate View Post
But how are you charing the battery? Electrics motors can be efficient - but its the rest of the energy cycle - charging efficiency, storage efficiency, transmission line efficiency, generation station efficiency. Start multiplying a series of 90% together and the overall cycle drops pretty quick. And that generator end efficiency isn't any where close to 90%
It takes more energy to produce a tank of gas by drilling crude, push through a pipeline, ship across the globe, refine, and truck to a local gas station than the energy contained in a long range battery electric vehicle. Most of these steps require electricity that goes through the same inefficiencies described above. So instead if using a bunch of electricity to produce gas, why not just skip the whole gas production step and just charge a car directly?
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