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California fair pay to play

Old 09-30-2019, 06:57 PM
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Default California fair pay to play

Will the NCAA follow suit, is it fair and just that kids getting a free education should be paid for use of their images.
Will there be an explosion of enrollment in California schools and will it create an unfair advantage on the playing field.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:42 PM
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Let California schools pay what ever they want. At this point, who cares what California does. They have some of the richest people in the world, yet they can’t afford to keep regular people in the state.
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Old 09-30-2019, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaBoss21 View Post
Let California schools pay what ever they want. At this point, who cares what California does. They have some of the richest people in the world, yet they can’t afford to keep regular people in the state.
This is not a political tread, it's about sports and education, can we keep that way.
PS: It's in the sport forum.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:36 AM
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I feel the same way Tim Tebow does on the subject.
​​​​​​​Google his rant
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:19 AM
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I've felt for a long time that DI college athletes (specifically football and basketball) should get paid.
That being said, I have a whole different spin on what that looks like.

They are full time employees of the university helping their universities make millions as they will for their owners/agents when/if they become professionals therefor, pay them!
We need to stop pretending they are "scholor athletes" as only a small fraction take any legimate classes and graduate on time or even within 5 years. They are not "students'. First and foremost they are professional athletes.

The real test here for me is how Stanford handles this. They are legitimately one of the most respected institutions of higher learning in the world. (I would put Cal maybe 1/2 to 1 rung below them) and if I were Chancellor of that institution this bill would make me immediately kill all athletic schlorships and move all sports to DII/DIII level or other level of true "amateur athlete status". I don't need the advertising promo from DI sports and I sure as hell don't need the revenue. My academic reputation is far more valuable than having a couple of alums that made themselves famous by turning pro and getting big contracts.

If they want these kids to get paid then let's just stop the pretense they are college students and let the NFL/NBA start a minor league/development league for them and let the universites be schools again.

The real question here then becomes......what happens to a place like UMiami? They would have nothing left of value.

There........that should get this thread jump-started.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by LongJohnSilver View Post
I've felt for a long time that DI college athletes (specifically football and basketball) should get paid.
That being said, I have a whole different spin on what that looks like.

They are full time employees of the university helping their universities make millions as they will for their owners/agents when/if they become professionals therefor, pay them!
We need to stop pretending they are "scholor athletes" as only a small fraction take any legimate classes and graduate on time or even within 5 years. They are not "students'. First and foremost they are professional athletes.

The real test here for me is how Stanford handles this. They are legitimately one of the most respected institutions of higher learning in the world. (I would put Cal maybe 1/2 to 1 rung below them) and if I were Chancellor of that institution this bill would make me immediately kill all athletic schlorships and move all sports to DII/DIII level or other level of true "amateur athlete status". I don't need the advertising promo from DI sports and I sure as hell don't need the revenue. My academic reputation is far more valuable than having a couple of alums that made themselves famous by turning pro and getting big contracts.

If they want these kids to get paid then let's just stop the pretense they are college students and let the NFL/NBA start a minor league/development league for them and let the universites be schools again.

The real question here then becomes......what happens to a place like UMiami? They would have nothing left of value.

There........that should get this thread jump-started.
Agree with some of what you said, can not however agree with demoting the program, if you have not, take a look a the documentary on Ben Simmons, one and done.
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:35 AM
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Pay for play is another step down the path of ending Division 1 College Athletics. This is slightly different because it is pay for advertising. If you can't sell yourself in ads, then you don't get paid. It frees athletes to be able to externally market themselves. But Pay for play will end D1 College Athletics.

Let's start with the fact that only a few sports (football, men's basketball) actually make money for Universities. Most Universities Athletic departments lose money. If you have to pay the men's basketball players, shouldn't you pay the female basketball players the same amount? Title 9 says you need to offer equal scholarships. Will the pay need to be equal?

Does women's college basketball make money? How about the swim team or lacrosse team, who are completely money losers....? If you pay QB at Alabama, shouldn't you pay the goalie for the field hockey team the same? I mean they both spend 40 hours a week focused on sports. How do you deal with the mens football team who get 80 scholarship and the men's hockey team who gets 18 or the mens lacrosse team who only get 12.8 scholarships? The backup face off guy on the men's lacrosse team "works" 40 hours a week on lacrosse.... same as the starting QB.

So the only college sports that will exist at the D1 level will be the ones that make money. If Title 9 is upheld in the court's you will need to pay all the athletes the same right? Gotta be fair to everyone..... all the time. So as LongJohn states, most universities will drop down to D2 or D3 (no scholarships) for all sports but Football and Men's Basketball.

Mike

Last edited by Parapapam; 10-01-2019 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:10 AM
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The NBA and the WNBA have different salary structure I don't see why that would not hold true for College athletes.
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Reel 007 View Post
The NBA and the WNBA have different salary structure I don't see why that would not hold true for College athletes.
TITLE IX of the Education Amendments was signed by President Nixon in June of 1972 to become a law. The main purpose of Title IX is to prohibit discrimination on the basis of sex in any education program or activity that is federally funded. TITLE IX is not leverage for women to obtain more benefits than men, but rather it is applicable for both sexes to get benefits and promote equality in Schools; especially high schools and colleges.
The law requires educational institutions with federal assistance to maintain policies, practices and programs that do not discriminate in base of sex. Females and males are expected to receive fair and equal treatment in every aspect of public schooling such as scholarships, financial aid, employment assistance, housing, health and insurance benefits, sexual harassment, athletics, among other things (Sadker 2004, website).

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Old 10-01-2019, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Reel 007 View Post
Will the NCAA follow suit, is it fair and just that kids getting a free education should be paid for use of their images.
Will there be an explosion of enrollment in California schools and will it create an unfair advantage on the playing field.

lets keep in mind those kids in bold above are in the extreme minority
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Old 10-01-2019, 10:59 AM
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This goes against the whole premise of going to school for an education.....oh wait.
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:21 PM
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If any of you think these four, and five start recruits are not getting paid now. I have a bridge to sell you.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by LongJohnSilver View Post
I've felt for a long time that DI college athletes (specifically football and basketball) should get paid.
That being said, I have a whole different spin on what that looks like.

They are full time employees of the university helping their universities make millions as they will for their owners/agents when/if they become professionals therefor, pay them!
We need to stop pretending they are "scholor athletes" as only a small fraction take any legimate classes and graduate on time or even within 5 years. They are not "students'. First and foremost they are professional athletes.

The real test here for me is how Stanford handles this. They are legitimately one of the most respected institutions of higher learning in the world. (I would put Cal maybe 1/2 to 1 rung below them) and if I were Chancellor of that institution this bill would make me immediately kill all athletic schlorships and move all sports to DII/DIII level or other level of true "amateur athlete status". I don't need the advertising promo from DI sports and I sure as hell don't need the revenue. My academic reputation is far more valuable than having a couple of alums that made themselves famous by turning pro and getting big contracts.

If they want these kids to get paid then let's just stop the pretense they are college students and let the NFL/NBA start a minor league/development league for them and let the universites be schools again.

The real question here then becomes......what happens to a place like UMiami? They would have nothing left of value.

There........that should get this thread jump-started.
You do realize that they cannot get paid to play under the new law. The law only provides for two things - them to hire an agent and for them to get paid for endorsements.

The schools themselves still cannot pay them under the new law.

since this law is for endorsements only, I see limited, actually very limited, impact. First, it is regional. As someone from New England, I could not name one single California college athlete. The only real pay day is if a second or third tier company is willing to sign some player on as an endorser looking for the pay day when they turn pro. Of course any deal would include exclusivity, which of course the athlete would not want.

In the end, much to do about nothing.

Last edited by Jersus; 10-01-2019 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaBoss21 View Post
Let California schools pay what ever they want. At this point, who cares what California does. They have some of the richest people in the world, yet they can’t afford to keep regular people in the state.
They have no problem with Vets living on the streets and wall jumpers getting free healthcare.Oh yeah,they got it going on out there.Please God ,let that shithole detach and drift to the West .....................
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:41 AM
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Those who are getting the opportunity for a free education through playing sports for a college are already getting “paid”.
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:09 AM
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Jersus---- they ARE getting paid now! What do you think a 4 year free ride to Stanford is worth?
Would you believe $75K/year? Go look it up.
And that doesn't have anything to do with Bushwacker's point which I also agree with. The alums manage to take care of them over and above the free education.

BTW-- Good points on Title IX.I hadn't even considered those implications.
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by LongJohnSilver View Post
Jersus---- they ARE getting paid now! What do you think a 4 year free ride to Stanford is worth?
Would you believe $75K/year? Go look it up.
And that doesn't have anything to do with Bushwacker's point which I also agree with. The alums manage to take care of them over and above the free education.

BTW-- Good points on Title IX.I hadn't even considered those implications.
I never said they were not getting scholarships. The point is, the law is void of the university paying them, it allows for third party payments.

I fail to see any title ix implications as it does not effect the universities.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jersus View Post
I fail to see any title ix implications as it does not effect the universities.
Ya, as I said, this is different. Title 9 comes into the discussion when you really talk Pay to Play (i.e. the Northwestern Football Team looking to Unionize and demand the University pay them..... which was luckily rejected by the NLRB). That would have had Title 9 implications. This is "free to sell advertising" not true Pay to Play. The Universities are not giving "benefits" out in this case. It is just freeing athletes to "sell" their likeness to outside parties.

Mike
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:03 AM
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None of this would be an issue if the NBA and NFL had legitimate farm systems like MLB does. They get a free ride off the backs of the universities, most of whom get free rides off the backs of us, the tax payers. Let the NBA really put money in the D league (and give it a legitimate name), let the NFL really put money into a US based minor league, and let the athletes who can make it there go and get paid. The rest go to college for their OPPORTUNITY to earn a college degree. NCAA mens basketball and football would still rule the TV airwaves and still get paid billions because it's fans care more about the team than they do who's wearing the uniform this year. College basketball would be even better than it is now because there wouldn't be the constant yearly & bi-yearly turnover of talent.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Parapapam View Post
Ya, as I said, this is different. Title 9 comes into the discussion when you really talk Pay to Play (i.e. the Northwestern Football Team looking to Unionize and demand the University pay them..... which was luckily rejected by the NLRB). That would have had Title 9 implications. This is "free to sell advertising" not true Pay to Play. The Universities are not giving "benefits" out in this case. It is just freeing athletes to "sell" their likeness to outside parties.

Mike
Exactly, this is not pay to play, this is endorsement money. To be honest, how many nationally recognizable college athletes are there? Hence, why I think this will all be regional and not much to do about anything.
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