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Old 05-16-2018, 08:39 AM
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Default Swordfish rod question

What's the difference between using an actual sword rod designed for daytime dropping and using a all roller stand up rod on a short bent butt. I have a beastmaster 9000 for a reel. If I should get a different rod , what brand is good? I have all pinnicle trolling rods so I'd lean that way
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:37 AM
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What I've been seeing a lot of guys using is a 6' 60-80 class rod with a high dollar roller tip that's impossible to get mono pinched in and titanium wire guides. the wide reels don't like bottom rollers they tend to get behind them and cut braid, bent butt obviously and most guys use reinforced swivel rod holders. I just had crowder build one for my MP3000.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:27 AM
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No place for and all roller rod in swordfishing. #1 thing you should do is call a reputable rod builder in S Florida that knows how to build a real daytime swordfish rod. It will be on an 80 class butt, likely 80-130 ish blank, all SIC guides and a Winthrop tip. Expect to spend $650 or more for a rod. Any less than that I would be very skeptical. The rod I use costs right around $750. With the $$ of braid that goes in and out of the rod on a daily basis that can be ruined by a bad rod the cost saving son something cut rate is totally not worth it. There's really no cheap way to do this. A good rod will also last you through when you upgrade reels as well, which is inevitable.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by hamma job View Post
No place for and all roller rod in swordfishing. #1 thing you should do is call a reputable rod builder in S Florida that knows how to build a real daytime swordfish rod. It will be on an 80 class butt, likely 80-130 ish blank, all SIC guides and a Winthrop tip. Expect to spend $650 or more for a rod. Any less than that I would be very skeptical. The rod I use costs right around $750. With the $$ of braid that goes in and out of the rod on a daily basis that can be ruined by a bad rod the cost saving son something cut rate is totally not worth it. There's really no cheap way to do this. A good rod will also last you through when you upgrade reels as well, which is inevitable.
- Hard to disagree with HAMMA although there are good builders all over the country.
- Personally I think its worth researching and spending $$ on tried and true tested gear from those who have done this for a while.
- Also, there needs to be an emphasis on a soft tip since you'll most likely be staring at it for lengths of time and often that bite (or slash) is VERY subtle. Again though, an experienced builder/sword fisherman will cover that.
- Just my humble opinion. We all spend enough money on this and I wouldnt skimp on the rod.
- On a nuanced note, some folks like a medium weight, some like heavier. I know fishing with friends in FL in the current the heavier seems to make sense. In the Gulf with slower current and sacrificial drops we can get away with a medium or noodlier (technical term :-)

Bottom line, youre doing the right thing asking everyone. Hone in on your area and ask a bunch of folks who have done it a little bit.

Good luck!
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Texasblue View Post
- Hard to disagree with HAMMA although there are good builders all over the country.
- Personally I think its worth researching and spending $$ on tried and true tested gear from those who have done this for a while.
- Also, there needs to be an emphasis on a soft tip since you'll most likely be staring at it for lengths of time and often that bite (or slash) is VERY subtle. Again though, an experienced builder/sword fisherman will cover that.
- Just my humble opinion. We all spend enough money on this and I wouldnt skimp on the rod.
- On a nuanced note, some folks like a medium weight, some like heavier. I know fishing with friends in FL in the current the heavier seems to make sense. In the Gulf with slower current and sacrificial drops we can get away with a medium or noodlier (technical term :-)

Bottom line, youre doing the right thing asking everyone. Hone in on your area and ask a bunch of folks who have done it a little bit.

Good luck!
Good points, and that's the general school of thought. I am going to disagree with one point that you make, and that everyone else assumes is the correct school of thought- that due to not having a lot of current, and therefore using less lead, one would use a lighter (noodle) rod. In my opinion, this is a falsehood. A really soft rod is needed when it is difficult to see a bite (high current, lots of lead), which occurs at the exact opposite scenario of what you are describing. When I fish in low current, I continue to use a very heavy rod. Why? Because the bites are so easy to see with light leads and current as compared to in high current that I don't need the tip, and would much rather have the heavier rod when fighting the fish. Nothing worse than having a wimpy rod that does nothing to the fish with a big one tied to the other end. Again, my opinion, but try using a heavy rod and watch your fight times get cut significantly. By heavy rod I mean something with a little bit of tip action, but shuts off completely about 1/3 of the way from the tip.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:48 PM
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Good info. So , I need something 6'5" -7' noodley but not to noodley . All ring guides and enough balls to yank up a sword george clooney would be proud of.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:08 PM
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Up there is MD I believe you'll have slower current than the FL east coast. Probably similar to the GOM, using lighter weights. I had Connley build me some rods for day and night. Calstar Grafighter 7060H blanks. 6'3", SiC guides, Winthrop #14 top and #2 adjustabutts. I fish a 4-5# weight from there. These would probably be good for your application. I also have a lighter rod with a #12 top that I fish a 3# weight from when conditions allow. I'd reach out to Bryan or Todd. Or off-the-shelf, the GTS rods from Meltons are good. If you want to go real parabolic look into having a rod built on a black hole 450 or giant blank.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:44 PM
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HAMMA, I will never present anything as gospel but just my opinion. That said, I prefer a light rod over any heavy rod no matter what the current. Actually, its an RJ Boyle "medium".

On the wimpy rod reference, we personally dont use wimpy swordfish rods LOL
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:20 PM
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I use an actual broom stick with the brisels removed and a stainless eye on the tip from the hardware store.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mouse4x4 View Post
I use an actual broom stick with the brisels removed and a stainless eye on the tip from the hardware store.
That might work for me , I'm using a west Marine electric trailer winch WITH the corded remote.
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Old 05-16-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cast n' blast View Post
That might work for me , I'm using a west Marine electric trailer winch WITH the corded remote.
Hmmmmmm......interesting idea. How much 80 lb braid with that winch hold?
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:19 PM
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Nice I haven't upgraded to electric yet just using a 2 speed boat winch with 550 cord. That electric must be the cats meow lol. Along with that i use the old coated mushroom anchors for weight.
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:34 AM
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OK, half serious and most likely dumb question for the gurus like Hamma and Texas and others. A Winthrop roller tip is like 150 bucks. Why is having this over a standard new SIC round guide tip so much better? These soft tip sword rods already and pointing back to the water when loaded so its not like the line is making a sharp transition over the tip. The line touches and has pressure on all the other SIC guides that are not rollers so why not the tip? I'm sure the Winthrop is better and if money grew like soybeans around here I would have one, but for someone like me who might get a chance to drop 1-3 days a year is it absolutely necessary? I got away from roller tips years ago on my trolling setups when it would cause my mono to rub the hard edges of the tips when making a crazy angle back to the riggers.

So I'm sure I will find out the hard way why to have a roller tip because I built my rod without it using a SIC round guide at the end. Of course I don't have a fancy lp1200 on it either :/ But I also grew up with crank windows in my truck and they worked fine.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by krabill View Post
OK, half serious and most likely dumb question for the gurus like Hamma and Texas and others. A Winthrop roller tip is like 150 bucks. Why is having this over a standard new SIC round guide tip so much better? These soft tip sword rods already and pointing back to the water when loaded so its not like the line is making a sharp transition over the tip. The line touches and has pressure on all the other SIC guides that are not rollers so why not the tip? I'm sure the Winthrop is better and if money grew like soybeans around here I would have one, but for someone like me who might get a chance to drop 1-3 days a year is it absolutely necessary? I got away from roller tips years ago on my trolling setups when it would cause my mono to rub the hard edges of the tips when making a crazy angle back to the riggers.

So I'm sure I will find out the hard way why to have a roller tip because I built my rod without it using a SIC round guide at the end. Of course I don't have a fancy lp1200 on it either :/ But I also grew up with crank windows in my truck and they worked fine.
The Winthrop tip has zero chance of the braid jumping the sheave - the side "plates" are hollowed out and the edge of the sheave is slightly indented into the housing. As you say, when the rod is "pointed" at the fish this is not an issue, but the end game of a sword catch almost universally has the fish darting all over the surface after the weight is removed. A sword can and will swim at mach 4, much faster than you can adjust the boat's direction, walk around the perimeter of the CC, or allow the swivel rod holder to do its job. You will end up with extreme angles between the line and the rod tip, and tons of load. The roller tip itself is for when the fish makes a few hard runs and you are full drag. Ring tip will not stand up to that, point loading the ring with small, abrasive line. just my opinion, but we all "found out the hard way"!
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:45 AM
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Thanks I can see how hard runs at the end could be an issue.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:54 AM
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Your line will spend most of its life going through that top guide either back and forth through wave action or at a high rate of speed on descent and retrieve, both scenarios with 4-12# of lead + current on it. Given that you're using the lightest braid feasible it is very important to protect it every way you can.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by krabill View Post
OK, half serious and most likely dumb question for the gurus like Hamma and Texas and others. A Winthrop roller tip is like 150 bucks. Why is having this over a standard new SIC round guide tip so much better? These soft tip sword rods already and pointing back to the water when loaded so its not like the line is making a sharp transition over the tip. The line touches and has pressure on all the other SIC guides that are not rollers so why not the tip? I'm sure the Winthrop is better and if money grew like soybeans around here I would have one, but for someone like me who might get a chance to drop 1-3 days a year is it absolutely necessary? I got away from roller tips years ago on my trolling setups when it would cause my mono to rub the hard edges of the tips when making a crazy angle back to the riggers.

So I'm sure I will find out the hard way why to have a roller tip because I built my rod without it using a SIC round guide at the end. Of course I don't have a fancy lp1200 on it either :/ But I also grew up with crank windows in my truck and they worked fine.
Rain reasons against a ring guide:
- Most blanks that you will be building on require too big a tip for even a heavy sic ring guide
-The opening on a Winthrop roller is big enough for serves and heavy leader to pass through (although the beastmaster levelwind will be your biggest battle with this)
- The roller is a lot more forgiving when a swivel or a light hits it (inevitable no matter how careful you are)

For what its worth- I still drive a truck with hand crank windows and own 2 LP's.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:23 AM
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Thanks, all makes sense. I used a calstar blank and a #5 bent butt to support this old beast LP-3000 that is sitting on it. Maybe this year I can actually try it. I could just target Opahs so they don't run so hard at the end of the fight
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by the other tom View Post
The Winthrop tip has zero chance of the braid jumping the sheave - the side "plates" are hollowed out and the edge of the sheave is slightly indented into the housing. As you say, when the rod is "pointed" at the fish this is not an issue, but the end game of a sword catch almost universally has the fish darting all over the surface after the weight is removed. A sword can and will swim at mach 4, much faster than you can adjust the boat's direction, walk around the perimeter of the CC, or allow the swivel rod holder to do its job. You will end up with extreme angles between the line and the rod tip, and tons of load. The roller tip itself is for when the fish makes a few hard runs and you are full drag. Ring tip will not stand up to that, point loading the ring with small, abrasive line. just my opinion, but we all "found out the hard way"!
Winner, winner chicken dinner! Great articulation of point. Thanks for that.

Krabill: crank windows ... love it. So true
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:11 PM
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Here is what I have going together right now, calstar blank, #4 aftco butt, wind on aftco roller tip, sic guides the rest of the way. See what happens might just use it for a push pole. Still needs gloss and then she is ready to fish
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