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-   -   Daiwa SEABORG 1200MJ??? Anyone use it yet??? (

coores14 05-23-2018 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by hamma job (Post 11449286)
Biased, for working for LP? Absolutely. It also makes me uniquely qualified to throw the flag here. Especially when questioning an imported reel bearing a shockingly similar name (1200mj vs s1200) to mine. Puts a little bit of excrement flavor in my cheerios. I'm just looking to call a spade a spade here. My background for that? I have a bachelors and masters degree in mechanical engineering and have worked in manufacturing fishing equipment for 10 years. I make 1000+ electric reels a year. I also have caught a fair number of swordfish and have helped a lot of people learn how to do it. It's one of my passions, and I have spent a lot of time on the water getting things right not only from an equipment standpoint but also from a technique standpoint. So, based upon this, here is my $0.02 on "plastic magic beanstalks" and electric reels in general. Think of it what you will.

Motors: Brushless motors are very efficient, but there is no way of getting away from the basic guts of a motor. The output of an electric motor is a balance of the motors potential speed and torque. Motors, at the simplest level contain magnets and copper windings. If you increase both of these you can get more speed, more torque, or a combination of both out of the motor at a given current. You can have tiny tiny motors that are incredibly high speed, but, as you expect, are used in very low torque applications. Higher current also leads to more heat in the motor. Heat is removed by several elements, mainly the mass of the motor's internal components, and their contact with the case and the case's mass and ability to remove heat. At the end of the day- the bigger the motor (the more copper windings, the bigger and more magnets)- the more "powerful" it is and the more able it is to efficiently operate at higher currents. A motor the size of the shotglass can't be compared to a motor the size of a highball glass- regardless of how efficient they are and especially regardless of what "giga" or "max" or "-dura" prefix you put on it. Hence the "magic beanstalk" comment.

Control boards: Again, a place where the ability to dissipate heat comes into play. Efficiency goes a long way here as well. Wasted energy shows up as heat. However, in high current situations it is nearly impossible to eliminate the buildup of heat in electrical componentry. Heat sinks are used to carry the heat away from electrical components in these assemblies. In the general case of transferring heat- mass, surface area, airflow, and material are critical. This is why you have fins on a radiator, it is also why radiator fins are made of aluminum. This is also why there are holes in the plastic sideplates of some reels. This is to allow the air to penetrate to heat-sinking elements of the drive. It also allows salt water into these areas as well. Plastic is a terrible thermal conductor. Just ask a TLD or a Penn Senator.

Drag: Heat again is a major deal here, especially with electric reels. You get rid of it the same way as electrical heat as I mentioned before through mass, material type, and surface area. Drags on electric reels however pull double duty because they fight both the reel and the motor. If you have the fish stalling out the drag, heat is still being generated through the friction of the drag against a stationary spool. This is even further compounded if the fish takes a run and the motor continues to spin (worst case scenario). This heat has to go somewhere

Pulling power/speed/max drag: A great stat for a magazine article, and a commercial. It is also never policed, nor is there an industry standard for how it is measured in electric reels. 40lbs pull? For how long? At how fast? 100lbs of drag? I can make something with 1000lbs of drag, it doesn't mean that the drive can pull at that rate, but I could publish the number (I wouldn't ) and someone might buy it because of that. I could design and develop a motor that is 8x as fast, but I'd likely sacrifice torque to stay in the same envelope, or it might get cherry hot after 30 seconds, or it might burn the drag up in 2 minutes after someone hangs bottom and runs the motor against the drag. Again, nothing comes for free.

Heat is by far the most important thing here when we talk of electric reels as you can see. All of the components contribute heat to the equation and you have to get rid of it. Just think of the heat you would be generating winding a fish up from the depths! Similar work being done and energy expended. There is no such thing as free energy, there is no perpetual motion, and there certainly isn't a magical reel. Maybe there is and the 8 Japanese engineers from Daiwa that spent a half hour in my booth at the MIA boat show a couple of years back found it. I doubt it.

Cost of componentry and distribution: Some of these import reels are going through 6+ channels of distribution from the factory to the consumer. Each layer takes their cut. Shipping 8 guys to the MIA boat show from Japan isn't cheap. Prostaffs and giving away free product isn't cheap. Giant booths at ICAST aren't cheap. Advertising in print, tv, and social media isn't cheap either. Also, the cost of doing warrantee work at satellite locations. That definitely can't be cheap. That gets absorbed somehow. None of the guys I saw, much like myself, or any tackle dealer, looked like they had any interest in working for free.

A lot of this stems from doing seminars and talking to people as a fisherman who does this a lot and cringes when someone buys the wrong tool for the job because they were misled into believing that there's a new, magical, tool that does the equivalent of a piece of my equipment at 1/4 the cost. A lot of people end up frustrated and angry before they give the game a try in earnest. A lot of people say theyre going to upgrade but get so frustrated trying to figure things out on the cheap that they quit before the payoff comes, likely spending as much money as they would have to do it correctly from the getgo. Budget minded? Who isn't!!! I've said it 1000x. An 80W is a fine option. I've caught a pile handcranking. Not the most fun thing to do, but it works. There simply is no $1000 or $1500 electric reel solution to the swordfish dilemma.


I went right past the technical stuff because it doesn't matter.
There's not a single person here that is trying to compare a 1600$ reel to the 5000$ LP.
That's where I get caught up in your unwavering defense of the LP. You're defending the LP against reels and people that are intentionally NOT trying to compare to the LP.
Swords CAN be caught on electric reels other than the LP. It's all about managing expectations.

on deck 05-23-2018 05:11 PM guys have created the ultimate sword reel....I get that. I have fished both the the s1200 and the old school 24v on an international 80. Fine reels. But.....maybe....just technology has enabled more fishermen to enter the game at a lower price point with a capable product. The "magic plastic beanstalk" has served some pretty prominent comm guys in the NE well, allowing them to put daytime swords in the boat that rival what we have here in S Fla. (Beastmaster). I, too, respect what you have done for the fishery in general but having to read your sales pitch about how anything but an LP sucks gets a bit tedious.
I started this thread to discuss other options. The other option being the Daiwa Seaborg 1200 series.

nnavarro@somersetacademy. 05-23-2018 07:49 PM

���������� really a fun and interesting argument you guys are having. Valid points on both sides and great knowledge from hamma. But agreed. People can get in at a lower price point... in my opinion the only lower price point worth it is a hand crank. But I haven’t tried the mj1200.. or a used dolphin electric. Fact of the matter is I know stanz pretty well have spoken to him on this subject multiple times. I can copy and paste some stuff to u.. the beast master will burn up and croak on you. As it did to him multiple times. But you don’t see hat part. You only see the 400+ lb fish caught once. And the reel shut down and rebooted 6 times etc. it’s a matter of can you, yes you can with any reel.. would some people , no because they spend so much money to go out there why be unprepared which is what I feel is hamma’s Argument and I feel the same way... but there are people that just want to dab into it.. those people in my opinion don’t know just how expensive swordfishing is yet... until they lose that first big fish. That they spent alllllll that money tryin to get. And guess what. That’s when they turn to the big dogs lp hooker and mp3000... I would love to have a reel as small as a mj1200 be able to handle the job. Trust me, I get tired of carrying that heavy lp to the boat and back home. Lol when the mj1200 I ordered from digitaka comes in. I’m a test the balls of that reel.. that’s for sure .. hopefully the first fish I hook is a bluefin tuna since their migrating right now through south Florida lol

coores14 05-23-2018 08:03 PM

y'all make it sound like the only reason we buy our boats is to go catch a swordfish. I have my boat for a myriad of reasons unrelated to a sword. Is it nice to be able to go out and dabble in the sword game and maybe have a shot? Damn right. But there's no way in hell that I go, with my beastmaster, thinking that I have the exact same shot as someone as the LP. And you know what? I'M OK WITH THAT.

If I was spending thousands of dollars in fuel, on each trip, and spending hours and hours just to get to the fishing grounds, on each trip, then yeah the investment is a little more. But my life doesn't begin and end with a monster swordfish. If I lose one then you're damn right it would suck, but it would also be ok life doesn't begin and end with that. I went out and gave it a shot, KNOWING THAT I MIGHT BE UNDERGUNNED, and who knows, perhaps I land one. Like I did with my 180 pounder on a Beastmaster. You know what? that was effin awesome. Totally cool with that. If my Beastmaster allows it again, then great! If I lose one bigger than that, then great! At least I'm out fishing and not stuck behind the desk. So again, nobody here is trying to find an EQUAL replacement to the LP. They're discussing options that might allow them a shot at hooking and having a chance, however small it might be, in landing a sword. And if it doesn't happen, they can take that 1500$ reel and go catch all of the snowies and golden tiles they want. Without the 5K investment of the LP.

nnavarro@somersetacademy. 05-23-2018 08:07 PM

Hahahahaha to be honest I’d rather catch snowies and queens. Lol. The meat is 10000 times better ����

wsieying 05-23-2018 11:04 PM

" reel shut down and rebooted 6 times "

hand crank if it it shut down and wouldn't reboot.

wsieying 05-24-2018 12:07 AM

How to set drag precisely at 32lb to drive the hook and 18-20lb to fight the fish ?
I've never seen a LP s-1200, so I don't know if it can set the drag at 32lb/18lb/20lb.
For Beastmaster, Daiwa electric reel, one can only set the drag force by guessing/experience. can't be exactly @ 32lb

nnavarro@somersetacademy. 05-24-2018 05:08 AM

you can.. you just have to preset the reel. so you put your wind on on and use a scale and pull it and turn the star drag up until your pulling with 30 lb of pressure to make the line slip. now you have your star drag set to 30 lbs of pressure , you know that. now when you drop you use free spool and when you retrieve your retrieving with 30 lbs. the 18-20 lbs is more of a feel thing. so the most important is making sure you have that 30-32 lbs of drag to set the hook hard into that fish. then after that rod is doubled over tight for a minute or so. now you can lower your drag down and have a nice bend in the rod and let the rod do the rest of the work.

Coral Head 05-24-2018 05:27 AM

Yup like he said ^^^^^ that is exactly how you would do it.

Nickdee 05-24-2018 05:52 AM

I just glad I have a l.p.. not wondering if it will do what I want . That being said people sword fish with all sorts of stuff some that works some that all wrong . Sometimes they get the job done sometimes not. As long as there ok with that who cares what they use
I spend lots of money to do this and want to stack the odds in my favor when that once in a lifetime fish comes along
I buy the best of everything in this game swivels hooks all of it . I might loose a fish if I don't do everything right but it would not because I tried to save money by buying something that is not what I consider the best

wsieying 05-24-2018 06:02 AM

Thanks for the reply. So I have to set the drag again using a scale every time I landed a fish?
excuse me if I asked/funny/stupid question. I'm new to fishing.

nnavarro@somersetacademy. 05-24-2018 06:19 AM

yea you would reset the drag. it literally takes 30 seconds.. just lock up the drag and pull with a fish scale. and when the line slips at 30 lbs your great and done.
usually swordfishing especially with a smaller star drag reel. it will take a while to get that fish in. sometimes it can be fast. but most likely you will fight the fish for 2-3 hours maybe more. and then get the fish in the boat and be so jacked up you caught it on the tanacom or beastmaster or mj1200 that your heading in to the dock right after that. lol not continuing fishing. We have caught 3-4 fish in one day. but thats with one of the work horses and making short 45 minute to hour and half fights.
Carrying one of those little fish scales with you is just a perk you can use that will help enhance your chances or landing a nice fish. Because whether it is wahoo fishing, swordfishing or tuna fishing or deep dropping for grouper. i promise you one thing, each of those fish will test EVERY SINGLE THING about your rod, reel, line, leader, knots, crimps, etc etc. they wont come easy and willing.
So just prepare yourself as much as you can , the more you do it the more knowledge you will gain. but picking peoples brains is also a good way to get information. Goodluck out there . tight lines

Wallzy 05-26-2018 07:00 AM

Does the level wind on this reel have a large enough diameter for kite fishing swivels?

on deck 05-26-2018 07:13 AM

Yessir. Plenty big enough.

cp10415 05-26-2018 10:53 AM

Just used my new seaborg 1200MJ yesterday. Only had one fish on it. But it's a hefty 50# Amberjack. The 1200 handled the fish with great ease. There is plenty more head room on this reel. Comparing this to the Tanacom 1000, the Tanacom 1000 had a lot of problems fighting 30# class Amberjack.

Capt. Fred 05-26-2018 02:21 PM

Question for those who know a little about these cheaper electric reels. Are the drags/hand crank option able to fight a bigger (let's say 300 lb) sword?

If so, then for my needs, these cheaper reels make a lot of sense. The big advantage I see with an electric reel for swords is that it would be so much more convenient for setting and checking baits. What I mean is that, just speaking for myself, I would like to hand crank the fish. But if I get worn out, let the reel do the work for a while, then go back to hand cranking. As long as the drag systems on these reels are up to catching occasional bigger fish, it seems that they would be a good option. I'd like the electric for its help in handling baits, not handling fish.

Also, I have NO interest in catching a 500 lb sword! I've caught big fish in the past and have plenty of stories.

VanW 05-26-2018 03:08 PM

I haven't seen one of these but on reels like the Banax I'd say no, the handle isn't up to it nor is the drag. I had a 3-4 foot shark on mine (Banax) and it was testing it out. For deep dropping I don't think it can be beat for the price. I don't know about this new Daiwa as it *sounds* a bit more sturdy.

VanW 05-26-2018 03:09 PM

Also the gear ratio doesn't seem good for big fish cranking on the Banax. I don't know what the Daiwa has. Maybe I'm just used to big 2 speed reels.

Capt. Fred 05-26-2018 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by VanW (Post 11457582)
Also the gear ratio doesn't seem good for big fish cranking on the Banax. I don't know what the Daiwa has. Maybe I'm just used to big 2 speed reels.

That's what I am wondering. I can fully accept that the electric aspect isn't up to a big fish. But if I need to go to cranking by hand, I don't want it to fall apart. I don't care if I need to replace the drags pretty frequently either.

I caught a 9 foot 6 inch mako (apx 600 lbs) on a Penn 9/0 and the reel was fine. The guy who did the cranking was pretty worn out, but the reel caught many more sharks and tuna that year before I replaced the drag. If these reels can do something like that, then I'd be real happy.

nnavarro@somersetacademy. 05-30-2018 10:55 AM

Mj1200 came in
Finally the reel came in! Man let me tell you. This thing doesn’t feel like a Daiwa Reel. This this feels strong and the body is aluminum. No plastic here.. I’m going to test this things balls that’s for sure... hopefully she lives up to her “same class motor”. If she does. I don’t see why this wouldn’t be the best wahoo, dee drop, kite, dredge reel there is out. With the drag it has , if the motor has the balls they say it does. It should be able to do that stuff like the mp3000
lp’s will take a side seat for Atleast one drop

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