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-   -   Daiwa SEABORG 1200MJ??? Anyone use it yet??? (https://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfishing-charters-forum/923327-daiwa-seaborg-1200mj-anyone-use-yet.html)

coores14 05-22-2018 11:27 AM


Originally Posted by Frigate Sales (Post 11444750)
His point is very valid. Daiwa will not sell parts or provide service for grey market reels.
The excise tax on domestically sold fishing equipment is brutal... Got to protect the US market somehow - you do it with service.

If I called Daiwa and said, "hey I need a drag washer for a Seaborg 1200" they wouldn't sell it to me?
I've ordered parts from them in the past, they never asked where I bought the reel.

Perhaps they won't service it themselves or they won't offer warranty on it, but I don't see them denying a parts purchase over the phone.

LBSpear26 05-22-2018 11:29 AM

I also bought a 1200J but mine came from Malaysia already set up with an English display. I agree the real seems awesome but I have not had a chance to give it a reel world test yet.

Frigate Sales 05-22-2018 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by coores14 (Post 11444818)
If I called Daiwa and said, "hey I need a drag washer for a Seaborg 1200" they wouldn't sell it to me?
I've ordered parts from them in the past, they never asked where I bought the reel.

Perhaps they won't service it themselves or they won't offer warranty on it, but I don't see them denying a parts purchase over the phone.

Last I checked - on electric reels specifically, you are required to send it to their facility, through the authorized retailer you bought it from.
Maybe they have different rules for standard reels, but this has been my experience in my dealings with them (fairly recently too. I've had some folks ask me to repair some Daiwas for them).

Maybe I just got the wrong person on the phone....

Coral Head 05-22-2018 11:56 AM

Ok real world experience, one of my many reels I own is a 750 megatwin that I bought online 7-8 years and it's japanese only no english on screen or the control panel. Last year I sent it into Diawa USA to get serviced (cleaned and new drag washers), the reel was serviced and returned no questions asked so......

Coral Head 05-22-2018 12:00 PM


Originally Posted by Frigate Sales (Post 11444890)
Last I checked - on electric reels specifically, you are required to send it to their facility, through the authorized retailer

That was not my experience, I completed the onilne form for electric reel service, put it in a box and shipped it to them and it came back ($125 later) ready to go.

Jack Hexter 05-22-2018 03:10 PM

I recently purchased the Seaborg 800MJ (just a smaller version of the 1200MJ) and used it first time on a Pulley Ridge trip on the Yankee Capt's. Only problem I had was the readout did not jive with the Capt's announcement of the depth. Capt said we were in 400', reel read 325'. FWIW, this reel took 850 yards of 65 J Braid. It varied in the depth difference at various depths and never read the depth the Captain was announcing. This problem did not make a difference for the application I was using it. I've read the PDF on line and can see no adjustment of calibration. I'll be calling Daiwa in the near future.

wsieying 05-22-2018 05:41 PM

I have beastmaster 9000 and tanacom 1000, both can dead lift 12kg weight, From the spec sheet, I suppose the 1200J/1200mj are much more powerful than tanacom 1000.

* I tested both reels to dead lift the 12kgs for a few meters only.
* make sure to use the original cable/ a high quality cable. initially I used a non-genuine cable and the reel can't lift the 12kg weight with battery sign flashing on the screen.

on deck 05-22-2018 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by wsieying (Post 11445961)
I have beastmaster 9000 and tanacom 1000, both can dead lift 12kg weight, From the spec sheet, I suppose the 1200J/1200mj are much more powerful than tanacom 1000.

* I tested both reels to dead lift the 12kgs for a few meters only.
* make sure to use the original cable/ a high quality cable. initially I used a non-genuine cable and the reel can't lift the 12kg weight with battery sign flashing on the screen.

Funny you should bring the Tanacom 1000 into the mix. I have a Tanacom 1000 that I use for deep dropping (@900'). There is no way that the Tanacom could handle day time swordfishing. Believe me....I tried! The Seaborg is a waaaayyyyy stronger reel. I can stop the Tanacom easily if I try.....the Seaborg will take my hand with it.

wugubob 05-22-2018 08:55 PM


Originally Posted by Coral Head (Post 11443889)
Curious why 30 lbs?

A fish regardless of size is nearly neutral buoyant in the water so why the need to dead lift 30 pounds?

Tell that to the 8 ft shark on the other end that decided to bite your bait...

Coral Head 05-22-2018 10:09 PM


Originally Posted by wugubob (Post 11446501)
Tell that to the 8 ft shark on the other end that decided to bite your bait...

I deep drop at least 2-3 times a week and have never caught a shark larger than 3', but if I did hook an 8' shark the rig is all mono so it would get bit off pretty quickly.

All my experience has shown that the best way to land big fish when deep dropping (including daytime swords) is to use lighter drag and work the fish up. Locking the drag down and winching the fish in only increases the size of the hole in the fish and chance the hook will pull. But whatever works for you go for it!

I believe the best part of the Megatwin 1200 is the 13 drag washer system, not for the 78 lbs its capable of but the ability to run lighter drag and letting it slip when needed and not burning it up. Also the reel has a drag radiator that pulls the heat out of the reel which extends the drag life as well.

coores14 05-23-2018 05:25 AM

I can't imagine locking down the drag and trying to dead lift a big shark. Not sure why I'd ever want to do that. I catch all of my other fish utilizing the supplied drag. That's how I can get a 180 pound sword on 65lb line.

hamma job 05-23-2018 05:36 AM

If you daytime swordfish you will catch thresher sharks and they will test everything you have tackle wise. 30lbs won't budge one.

nnavarro@somersetacademy. 05-23-2018 07:32 AM

i ordered a mj1200. we will see how it works. i think it will be a great mid level reel.. i have the lp that is the workhorse. lets see what the mj1200 can do. For people that say swordfishing you need light drag. they must enjoy 3-4-5-6 hour fights. Yes you fight the fish fairly light on the way up. but you drive that hook at first. i use 32 lb of pressure to drive the hook and fight the fish up the water column with 18-20 lb of pressure. Increases my chances of catching the fish and keeping it night to not lose the fish at the end because i did not drive the hook. And your comment with 65 lb line. i do exactly what i just mentioned to you and i fish 65 lb line. never had the line break before. and rarely ever had the hook pull at the end of the fight because i drove the hook. my biggest was estimated 611 lb 105inch x 70inch fish out of miami. most people have seen the pictures about 2 years ago.
65 LB line is enough for everything except whatever i hooked into 2 weeks ago .. i couldnt move the fish with my lp and 40 lb od drag. i had to palm the spool. the fish took me from 2700 ft of line at hook up to 4800 ft of line in 10 mins. ended up getting me to 5100 ft of line heading east offshore before i saw the backing of the spool and started palming the spool with the 40 lb of drag also to stop the fish. line ended up popping because i drabbed the spool with about 10 wraps of line left on the reel. After all the the line broke 5 feet about my bimini and i got all the line back. needless to say 65 lb line can be put to the test pretty good.
ive caught threshers .. i dont know what this was, but it bit like a swordfish and had a 30 minute stand off like a swordfish. What it was i have no idea. What i like to think it was, the grander.. but one will never know. that fish tested every single thing that day. glad to say texasblue wind on held up to all of that and the 65lb momoi did the same with all that drag i applied for so long. the lp was hot.. so imagine what any other reel in the world would have been like. Probably would have blown up.

Coral Head 05-23-2018 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by nnavarro@somersetacademy. (Post 11447422)
i think it will be a great mid level reel..

That is my assessment as well, It's certainly not an LP class reel. As for a grander or a big thresher you better be prepared to cleat it off before it tears your shit up, that is just one of the trade offs of not using an LP.

I totally agree with setting the hook hard in the beginning, also congrats on a 611 that is indeed awesome fish. :thumbsup:

hamma job 05-23-2018 10:46 AM

I understand people that are sensitive to price, but I cant, for the life of me understand why someone would fish for swordfish for a reel they know is significantly undergunned for the fish of a lifetime. For even less $$ one can get an 80W and catch any swordfish on the planet. The buying of a small plastic "magic beanstalk" reel has never made any sense to me in this regard. Fishing for yelloweyes and using for a kite reel? Absolutely.

on deck 05-23-2018 11:09 AM

Believe it or not some people enjoy the challenge...of both saving our hard earned $$$ and beating big fish on lighter tackle.

nnavarro@somersetacademy. 05-23-2018 11:53 AM

you want a challenege............. hand crank that fish one time............. then you will go buy an lp.... lmao

coores14 05-23-2018 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by hamma job (Post 11448153)
I understand people that are sensitive to price, but I cant, for the life of me understand why someone would fish for swordfish for a reel they know is significantly undergunned for the fish of a lifetime. For even less $$ one can get an 80W and catch any swordfish on the planet. The buying of a small plastic "magic beanstalk" reel has never made any sense to me in this regard. Fishing for yelloweyes and using for a kite reel? Absolutely.

working for LP can create bias. I respect your knowledge, but not being able to understand why someone might buy a "plastic magic beanstalk" for swords is heavily influenced by the reels that you want to sell.

Coral Head 05-23-2018 01:14 PM


Originally Posted by hamma job (Post 11448153)
I understand people that are sensitive to price, but I cant, for the life of me understand why someone would fish for swordfish for a reel they know is significantly undergunned for the fish of a lifetime. For even less $$ one can get an 80W and catch any swordfish on the planet. The buying of a small plastic "magic beanstalk" reel has never made any sense to me in this regard. Fishing for yelloweyes and using for a kite reel? Absolutely.

If you have a passion for swording, fish commercially, or money just does not matter then an LP is the way to go. I owned an LP for 4-5 years and loved it for swording, I just sold it here on THT last month. As my passion for swording slowed having 5K tied up in a reel that I was only using 3-4 times a year just didn't make sense any more.

Also if you believe the mj1200 is a small plastic reel then you have never seen one first hand. The body of the reel is billet aluminum construction and the plastic side covers are for dress only and are not structural.

hamma job 05-23-2018 04:19 PM


Originally Posted by coores14 (Post 11448663)
working for LP can create bias. I respect your knowledge, but not being able to understand why someone might buy a "plastic magic beanstalk" for swords is heavily influenced by the reels that you want to sell.

Biased, for working for LP? Absolutely. It also makes me uniquely qualified to throw the flag here. Especially when questioning an imported reel bearing a shockingly similar name (1200mj vs s1200) to mine. Puts a little bit of excrement flavor in my cheerios. I'm just looking to call a spade a spade here. My background for that? I have a bachelors and masters degree in mechanical engineering and have worked in manufacturing fishing equipment for 10 years. I make 1000+ electric reels a year. I also have caught a fair number of swordfish and have helped a lot of people learn how to do it. It's one of my passions, and I have spent a lot of time on the water getting things right not only from an equipment standpoint but also from a technique standpoint. So, based upon this, here is my $0.02 on "plastic magic beanstalks" and electric reels in general. Think of it what you will.

Motors: Brushless motors are very efficient, but there is no way of getting away from the basic guts of a motor. The output of an electric motor is a balance of the motors potential speed and torque. Motors, at the simplest level contain magnets and copper windings. If you increase both of these you can get more speed, more torque, or a combination of both out of the motor at a given current. You can have tiny tiny motors that are incredibly high speed, but, as you expect, are used in very low torque applications. Higher current also leads to more heat in the motor. Heat is removed by several elements, mainly the mass of the motor's internal components, and their contact with the case and the case's mass and ability to remove heat. At the end of the day- the bigger the motor (the more copper windings, the bigger and more magnets)- the more "powerful" it is and the more able it is to efficiently operate at higher currents. A motor the size of the shotglass can't be compared to a motor the size of a highball glass- regardless of how efficient they are and especially regardless of what "giga" or "max" or "-dura" prefix you put on it. Hence the "magic beanstalk" comment.

Control boards: Again, a place where the ability to dissipate heat comes into play. Efficiency goes a long way here as well. Wasted energy shows up as heat. However, in high current situations it is nearly impossible to eliminate the buildup of heat in electrical componentry. Heat sinks are used to carry the heat away from electrical components in these assemblies. In the general case of transferring heat- mass, surface area, airflow, and material are critical. This is why you have fins on a radiator, it is also why radiator fins are made of aluminum. This is also why there are holes in the plastic sideplates of some reels. This is to allow the air to penetrate to heat-sinking elements of the drive. It also allows salt water into these areas as well. Plastic is a terrible thermal conductor. Just ask a TLD or a Penn Senator.

Drag: Heat again is a major deal here, especially with electric reels. You get rid of it the same way as electrical heat as I mentioned before through mass, material type, and surface area. Drags on electric reels however pull double duty because they fight both the reel and the motor. If you have the fish stalling out the drag, heat is still being generated through the friction of the drag against a stationary spool. This is even further compounded if the fish takes a run and the motor continues to spin (worst case scenario). This heat has to go somewhere

Pulling power/speed/max drag: A great stat for a magazine article, and a commercial. It is also never policed, nor is there an industry standard for how it is measured in electric reels. 40lbs pull? For how long? At how fast? 100lbs of drag? I can make something with 1000lbs of drag, it doesn't mean that the drive can pull at that rate, but I could publish the number (I wouldn't ) and someone might buy it because of that. I could design and develop a motor that is 8x as fast, but I'd likely sacrifice torque to stay in the same envelope, or it might get cherry hot after 30 seconds, or it might burn the drag up in 2 minutes after someone hangs bottom and runs the motor against the drag. Again, nothing comes for free.

Heat is by far the most important thing here when we talk of electric reels as you can see. All of the components contribute heat to the equation and you have to get rid of it. Just think of the heat you would be generating winding a fish up from the depths! Similar work being done and energy expended. There is no such thing as free energy, there is no perpetual motion, and there certainly isn't a magical reel. Maybe there is and the 8 Japanese engineers from Daiwa that spent a half hour in my booth at the MIA boat show a couple of years back found it. I doubt it.

Cost of componentry and distribution: Some of these import reels are going through 6+ channels of distribution from the factory to the consumer. Each layer takes their cut. Shipping 8 guys to the MIA boat show from Japan isn't cheap. Prostaffs and giving away free product isn't cheap. Giant booths at ICAST aren't cheap. Advertising in print, tv, and social media isn't cheap either. Also, the cost of doing warrantee work at satellite locations. That definitely can't be cheap. That gets absorbed somehow. None of the guys I saw, much like myself, or any tackle dealer, looked like they had any interest in working for free.

A lot of this stems from doing seminars and talking to people as a fisherman who does this a lot and cringes when someone buys the wrong tool for the job because they were misled into believing that there's a new, magical, tool that does the equivalent of a piece of my equipment at 1/4 the cost. A lot of people end up frustrated and angry before they give the game a try in earnest. A lot of people say theyre going to upgrade but get so frustrated trying to figure things out on the cheap that they quit before the payoff comes, likely spending as much money as they would have to do it correctly from the getgo. Budget minded? Who isn't!!! I've said it 1000x. An 80W is a fine option. I've caught a pile handcranking. Not the most fun thing to do, but it works. There simply is no $1000 or $1500 electric reel solution to the swordfish dilemma.

-Tim


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