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Manual sword setup

Old 10-25-2017, 12:35 PM
  #21  
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Well I am not sure about learning and all that but I have caught them before both night and day up here and really I put forth a little time in bait rigging and all that. I guess I am just overly lucky I was looking for advice on where to get line cheap and what others thought about the 50w doing the job. The first one I ever caught was on a TLD50 packed with braid and it handled it just fine. I can see where the 80w will have a faster retrieve which is something I didn't think about. The bait rigging and all that everyone has there own method and no one person's is the correct only way. I seen guys take 30 mins to prep a squid on a hook and I watched my partner do it in about 2 minutes and that same bait hooked up and I have seen the nice pretty bullet proof bait not hook up. I tend to believe that we as fisherman start to get to in-depth with this hobby and think to deeply. Remember it is a fish if it is hungry it will eat if it is remotely hungry it will eat. And there are some things we can do to help with that but it isn't rocket science.
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Old 10-25-2017, 03:07 PM
  #22  
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I dont think a 50w will be an issue as far as a reel. Line choice where I fish seems to be 65 or 80# for daytime. A 50w will hold a bunch of this size line.
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Old 10-25-2017, 03:41 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by hamma job View Post
1. I would go with an 80, especially seeing as you are just trying it out. Superior line retrieve and drag surface area.
If we are talking Tiagras, both of those are mostly fallacies.

The 50W has a 20% higher gear ratio than the 80, so when you take into account arbor diameters the difference in retrieve rate is negligible.

Also the 50W LRSA has the same drag specs as the 80W.

I can fit 1000m of 37kg test braid plus 200m of 37kg of mono topshot on my 50W.
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Old 10-26-2017, 07:17 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by andosan View Post
If we are talking Tiagras, both of those are mostly fallacies.

The 50W has a 20% higher gear ratio than the 80, so when you take into account arbor diameters the difference in retrieve rate is negligible.

Also the 50W LRSA has the same drag specs as the 80W.

I can fit 1000m of 37kg test braid plus 200m of 37kg of mono topshot on my 50W.
We are talking tiagras, and no, neither of those are fallacies. 80 tiagra does have larger drag washers, hence more drag surface area. This allows it to dissipate heat and loading better. It also has a larger aluminum frame, and larger spool, which helps extremely in dissipating heat. The reason the drag "specs" are the same is because they use the same cam and thrust washers. Most people are confused by this, a highly manipulative tactic of reel manufacturers.

The line recovery is more and in practice than an on paper one. Every day of the week someone winding up 10lbs of lead from 1500' down with an 80 will roast someone doing it with a 50. Or at least will get significantly more trips in before rotator cuff surgery.

I've caught plenty of fish on both during the day. And 5x that on electrics. And hands down, especially fishing out of the rodholder or a chair, the 80 wins the handcrank game.
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Old 10-26-2017, 09:45 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by hamma job View Post
The reason the drag "specs" are the same is because they use the same cam and thrust washers. Most people are confused by this, a highly manipulative tactic of reel manufacturers.

.

Ahh, you learn something new everyday.

Thanks !!
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Old 10-26-2017, 10:21 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by hamma job View Post
We are talking tiagras, and no, neither of those are fallacies. 80 tiagra does have larger drag washers, hence more drag surface area. This allows it to dissipate heat and loading better. It also has a larger aluminum frame, and larger spool, which helps extremely in dissipating heat. The reason the drag "specs" are the same is because they use the same cam and thrust washers. Most people are confused by this, a highly manipulative tactic of reel manufacturers.

The line recovery is more and in practice than an on paper one. Every day of the week someone winding up 10lbs of lead from 1500' down with an 80 will roast someone doing it with a 50. Or at least will get significantly more trips in before rotator cuff surgery.

I've caught plenty of fish on both during the day. And 5x that on electrics. And hands down, especially fishing out of the rodholder or a chair, the 80 wins the handcrank game.
Yes it does have a larger drag plate, but nonetheless the drag specs i.e. max drag force, is the same, according to Shimano. Granted, in a long protracted fight at heavy settings the 80 would be less likely to fail.

You can’t have different retrieve rates “on paper” and “in practice”, it’s simple geometry. In high gear they are the same. In low gear the 80 has a better rate but I’m guessing not many people are winding up from 1500’ in low...
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Old 10-26-2017, 07:38 PM
  #27  
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Th difffrence I notice is in the greater amount of inertia that the larger spool carries.
It makes the retrieve smoother, and the larger overall dimensions mean less wobble.
A 130 is even more so.
You will land more fish sooner with the big tackle, and if you release them, their chances of survival are increased by the shorter fight time, and reduced chances of breaking off and then sentencing your fish to death by dragging your line around.
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Old 10-27-2017, 02:41 AM
  #28  
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A tiagra 50 will do it if you use 65lb braid. I want to say I got 1500yds on mine, once you put a wind on its topped out.

If you want to keep it sporting why not get the hooker detachable motor, then you can hand fight once you hook up without extra weight but you not dying trying to check baits or change depths
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Old 10-27-2017, 04:31 AM
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a 50 and 80 have the same drag specs but the 80 has a larger drag surface. Its like comparing an f150 to an f250. Will the 150 tow 10,000# yes, but the 250 will last a lot longer doing it.
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Old 10-29-2017, 07:30 AM
  #30  
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I've only done about 15 deep drops in 3 trips. I am 57 and don't find the hand cranking to be that hard. I have timed myself several times and it takes about 10 minutes to reel a bait up. I don't see what the big deal is. I fish in depths from 250 - 300 fathoms. My setup uses a sacrificial 8 lb weight with a two lb sinker staying on the line.

If I really get into it and find myself going 15 times a year, then I might spend the money on an electric. But for the once in a while trip when the weather and my schedule line up for the run out to the deep, hand cranking works fine.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:28 PM
  #31  
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Thats the way I look at it. It only takes 10-15 mins to reel up and check no biggie in my books.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:25 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by hamma job View Post
Don't knock it til you try it! Besides, anyone who hooks the fish and walks away from the reel is not going to catch a heck of a lot. We fight fish as if they were on a manual reel, inch by inch, having our hand on the line most of the time feeling what the fish is doing. Only thing we aren't doing is turning a handle.

My argument is this- you will have to spend time finding where the fish are, patterning them, learning to drive, learning to see the bite, learning to hook them, learning to rig baits. then learning how to properly fight them with the boat. Anyone who has actually put one in the boat, especially in a new area, will understand that. That is 99% of the skill involved with doing this. My point was mostly that you will not do it enough to be successful if you have to hand crank from the getgo. Or you will rig up in a way that hampers your success. You buy an 80 for 1k and an electramate gadget (which is pretty neat) for 1500 you're getting close to a stand alone electric in terms of outlay $$ that can do the job. Leave handcranking for when you get things dialed in. Its like getting into hunting and the next day deciding to hunt for moose with a longbow.

Also, if you live in OCMD I'm guessing you troll a lot as well? The electric you buy could double as a dredge reel.
Oh no doubt there's still skill involved. My one buddy must have made two dozen drops over 3-4 trips before he even got bit. He uses full electric.

I just look at it this way: We take 4-5 people fishing every time we go. To have 3-4 people sit there and watch you flip a switch is kinda crappy. At least with a crew you can take turns on the rod.

Hypothetically speaking, if I were to get an LP, could I even use the rod for deep drop to pull a dredge? To my understanding, the rod itself is special purpose for both applications. Guys are going to softer tips for daytime swording and dredges require a broomstick. I know the LP has interchangeable spools which is nice.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:50 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by HookMeUpII View Post
Oh no doubt there's still skill involved. My one buddy must have made two dozen drops over 3-4 trips before he even got bit. He uses full electric.

I just look at it this way: We take 4-5 people fishing every time we go. To have 3-4 people sit there and watch you flip a switch is kinda crappy. At least with a crew you can take turns on the rod.

Hypothetically speaking, if I were to get an LP, could I even use the rod for deep drop to pull a dredge? To my understanding, the rod itself is special purpose for both applications. Guys are going to softer tips for daytime swording and dredges require a broomstick. I know the LP has interchangeable spools which is nice.
Yes you would use different rod tip sections most likely, same 80 class butt section. Just change the tip out when you change the spool. Depending on the rod holder configuration on the boat, you might be able to get away dredge fishing without a rod all together. Space becomes a concern running the longer swordfish rod amongst the riggers when dredge trolling. Likely you will need a dredge rod though. The far more expensive of the tips will be the swordfish rod tip. Dredge rods should not be all that expensive. All they really are is a stubby 80 class with a swivel tip, no real need for other guides.

One of the biggest mistakes people make in building a swordfish rod is making it entirely too light. Great for youtube videos, terrible for fighting fish out of a rodholder with a wimpy rod. Seeing the bite isn't a problem once you've tuned yourself in.
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:28 AM
  #34  
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:47 AM
  #35  
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When I was in Venice I noticed Peace Marvel using an 80 tiagra manual, not sure if he uses something to help retrieve if no fish. He brought in two swords while I was there,

I am sure he has his rig down to a science.
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