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Another Ebay Fraud...

Old 04-29-2006, 03:29 PM
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Default Another Ebay Fraud...

I am going through a situation with Ebay and PayPal, and thought I would share it here so no one makes the same mistake. I won an auction for a set of outriggers that were advertised as being able to accomodate 1.5" outrigger poles. The picture looked pretty good, so I e-mailed the seller and double-checked and he replied and told me that Taco 1.5" poles will fit these riggers... I won the auction, received the riggers and they will not fit 1.5" poles. I tried several times to get the seller to allow me to return them and just refund my money, but he refused. So, I disputed the charge through PayPal, and now I've had to have an independent person evaluate the riggers and go through hoops just to get my money back. Hopefully it will happen soon, but I thought I would post this here to warn people that these outriggers (he's continuing to sell other sets) do not fit 1.5" outrigger poles....

Here's the link to the auction I won. From there you can see that he's got other riggers for sale...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN%3AIT&rd=1
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Old 04-29-2006, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

Sounds like people should take the time to send a question about them....
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Old 04-29-2006, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

Make sure he gets a healthy dose of "negative feedback" ...
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Old 04-29-2006, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

Yeah, I left him feedback indicating that the outriggers don't fit 1.5" poles. So, he left me feedback calling me a criminal... Unfortunately eBay won't remove the feedback without a court order unless it's vulgar... Unbelievable. Oh well.
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Old 04-29-2006, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

I have a long standing rule about ebay and I have sold and purchased TONS of stuff. If you have a question about an item that cant be solved with a picture then I don't buy it. What I mean if I have a question about an items size I have the person take a picture of the item next to a tape. Unless an item has good photoes I do not purchase. Also, if the person doesn't leave you feed back first I never leave neg feeb back because they are sure to do the same no matter if you pay fast or not. You can always leave a second feedback telling your side of the story. Sorry, your auction ended sour.
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Old 04-29-2006, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

Yeah, I've bought and sold hundreds of things through eBay and have never had a problem... This seller has sold thousands of things and had very good feedback. But, all of his sales are of tankless water heaters, not outriggers... I e-mailed him several times before the auction ended, and he answered all of my questions through e-mail.... He's even local to me..only lives a few miles away. He wrote about how he's a fisherman and how he personally shipped them out the same day the auction ended... Seemed like a good guy. I don't know if he geniuenly thought that they would work with 1.5" poles or if he intentionally defrauded me, but either way, as a seller, all he had to do was refund my money when I sent them back. Instead, he turned into a real jerk and refused to do anything about it... Oh well, I guess that's what PayPal's dispute process is for, it's just a major pain..

And to make it even more amusing, he started a notice with eBay saying that I never paid for the item. In order to prove to eBay that I had paid, I had to send copies of e-mail confirmations and all sorts of crap.... I've got his address, but my wife strongly discouraged me from just bringing the riggers back to him and showing him where he could put them... lol...
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Old 04-29-2006, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

Looking at the item how hard would it be to have them sleeved, in other words cut that pipe down take it to a tower shop and have them weld on a nice piece of pipe that will surely fit the rigger. I would be it wouldn't look out of place and you wouldn't have to screw with him again? I don't know how picky you are about your rigging and from what you paid for the item you may still be only ahead after the mod?

Yeah I wouldn't worry with taking them over to his place, some people are just asses nothing you can do about it. OR you could relist the item and correct the ad where you purchased them showing in a picture proving where they wouldn't fit as you discribe. Then in your second chance feedback list the item number where you RELISTED the item
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Old 04-29-2006, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

wkearney99 - 4/29/2006 5:54 PM

Sounds like people should take the time to send a question about them....
The item was advertised as being compatible. What should the buyer have done, ask him if it was compatible? That's stupid!!!
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Old 04-30-2006, 07:30 AM
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Default RE: Another Ebay Fraud...

Ebay and pay pal are the same company they figure if they make you jump through hoops you wont pursue your claim. I used to buy stuff on ebay but after a few bad experiences I dont anymore. Some of the stuff on there is cheap because it is garbage I bought a "dewalt" drill looked good out of the box after 2 months it finally dawned on me that it wasnt a dewalt drill but a imitation I have always been tempted to purchae one of those cheapie shimano tiagras reels they sell on there but they are probably knockoffs too. If it's too good to be true it probably is or at least someting is wrong.
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Old 04-30-2006, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

If he only lives a few miles from you, why did you have him SHIP the poles to you? Seems like you could have killed two birds with one stone in a face-to-face with the guy...
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Old 04-30-2006, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

It looks like the seller should stick to selling toilets.
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Old 04-30-2006, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

As far as local pickup, he wanted to ship them and not deal with local pickup. Personally, I understood that because when I used to sell BMW wheels on Ebay, it was a major pain to deal with local pickups.... So, I had no problem with that.... I don't really want to debate the issues regarding my particular deal, though. I just wanted to post this here to make sure that no one else got screwed by this guy by buying his outriggers....
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Old 04-30-2006, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

When the paypal dispute ends and you get your money back, ship him a brick in a box and forward that tracking number to ebay stating you returned the bases. Keep the actual bases. You got your money, and revenge on the guy for being a jerk, and his bases. When and if he comes by the house demanding the bases, simply tell him you'll ignore him for a few weeks then t hink about returning the bases, and see how he likes it.

Two can play this game...
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Old 04-30-2006, 02:01 PM
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Default RE: Another Ebay Fraud...

Now for the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say.......
Hello to all- my name is Chuck, w30chuck on ebay. I sold edsmith03 the outrigger mounts he claims are worthless.
I'm the holder/proprietor of two US patents for a revolutionary outrigger mount. We are currently in production and tooling these particular patent products. edsmith03 purchased a set/pair that we currently sell to the marine market as OEM on many branded boat manufactures. Our outrigger mounts are manufactured to accept current outrigger rods in the marine market. I other words, since we do not manufacture the rods, we have no other alternative but to manufacture our product to accomodate a competitor's product specification and tolerances'. My outrigger is designed to accept two standard rod sizes in the industry. It would be ludicrous for us to do so otherwise or vice-versa.

Now to discredit edsmith03 watered-down version:
Ed wrote me an email indicating the outrigger mounts were not as listed and would not accept poles or rods he had purchased or was planning on purchasing. To which I answered immediately and asked him to phone me so I we could discuss his problem. His answer was that he did not have the time to call me because he was at work. I then wrote him back, gave him my cell phone number and suggested that he call me after work hours. In fact, I suggested he could call me until midnight if need be. He still refused to call me. He proceeded to file a claim with Paypal and post a negative feedback-I returned the favor. And since we have had no communication.

Like most of you I'm a boater and avid fisherman myself. This transaction is not about a refund to the buyer, no, its more than that. I invite all of you to view the content of my feedback on eBay, I think you'll agree that its indicative of a business man with intergrity. My customers trust me because I have earned their respect one transaction at a time. Unfortunately for Ed, he never gave me the opportunity to serve him as I would have liked. Now he resorts to trash me and my product on this website. The fact is that this man lacks communication skills. His actions or lack of only prove that his motives was a free pair of outriggers. If this continues on this forum I will make public and post ALL email correspondence with edsmith03. Grow up edsmith03, be a bit more mature. Sprinkle a little diplomacy on your dealings- it will take you further in life.

Now to some goods news that will interest all. I the next 60 to 90 days I will unveil not one but two new outrigger mounts that I'm sure all of you would enjoy viewing..............Until then, my respect to all,

-Chuck

Ps- The brick in the box idea (although sounds ingenious) is not going to fly very well with Paypal.
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Old 04-30-2006, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: Another Ebay Fraud...

w30chuck - 4/30/2006 2:01 PM

... I will make public and post ALL email correspondence with edsmith03...
THT TERMS OF USAGE.

... You may not post information invasive of another's personal privacy rights...

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Old 04-30-2006, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

So do they accept 1 1/2" poles? Chuck what pole do you design to accept? Will they accept Taco 1 1/2" poles.
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Old 04-30-2006, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

Absolutely
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Old 04-30-2006, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

This is simple, either the seller or the buyer get a vernier caliper. Take a picture of the caliper showing the measurement of the ID. Post this pic on THT. ONE of you WILL be proven to be a LIAR.
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Old 04-30-2006, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

I don't have a caliper, but I do have a standard tape measure... I took these pictures and forwarded them to Chuck last week. He refused to refund my money, though. As far as not calling him, that is correct. I didn't call him because I was at work and could not call him at the time. When I realized that he was going to be difficult about this, I realized that it would definitely not be smart to call him, as none of our conversation would be documented. Which is why I encouraged him to communicate with me via e-mail, which he refused. And, Chuck, I would welcome you to post any message that I sent to you that was in ANY way rude or anything but focused on communication.

I never wanted a free set of outriggers, Chuck. All I wanted was to return these outriggers to you, because they are NOT what you advertised. I then wanted you to refund the money I sent you. You refused to do that, so I disputed the charge... Your actions caused this, not mine... Why don't you tell everyone how you filed a false claim with eBay telling them that I didn't ever pay for these outriggers, despite the fact that I paid you within hours of winning the auction? Why don't you explain to everyone why my negative feedback is true (all I said is that the outriggers don't accept 1.5" poles and you wouldn't refund $$), but your negative feedback to me was calling me a "fraud" and a "criminal"?? Explain that, oh diplomatic one?

And, why don't you tell everyone what the outcome of the PayPal investigation was, Chuck?

Oh, wait, I can do that. They're refunding my money as soon as I ship them back to you. That's right. Because they agreed that your posting was innacurate...

Here's the picture... Like I said, it's not a caliper, but it's pretty clear that the inner diameter is 1 3/8" and NOT 1 1/2"... The second picture is of me trying to put a 1.5" Taco pole in the outrigger. As you can see, it clearly doesn't fit.


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Old 04-30-2006, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Another Ebay Fraud...

edsmith03 - 4/29/2006 7:21 PM
He's even local to me..only lives a few miles away.
I would have visited him and made the measurement myself. And, why ship it, if he's only a few miles away?
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