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Trolling without a swivel

Old 07-19-2014, 08:20 AM
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Default Trolling without a swivel

Just thinking out loud. If trolling for tuna, why not use a fluorocarbon wind on leader crimped directly to the lure? You could use the twisted double line rig between the lure head and hook and eliminate the swivel. I realize it may create line twists, but how bad? (could cut off lure and remove line twist on way in at end of day). Would be more stealthy than a big snap swivel or even a small spro. Anyone try this?
Old 07-19-2014, 08:46 AM
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I tried it long ago, thinking the small Spro's just couldn't eliminate that much twist... I was then surprised by how much they really do!

Fwiw, I don't think a small Spro 30' in front of the bait is a stealth issue, and having the Spro there allows changing out rigs by just snipping at the Spro and then attaching the new rig via crimp.

[We knot the Spros to the main line for 50's and under, crimp them on 80's and 130's, crimp all leaders to the Spro regardless of line or leader size.]

JPK
Old 07-19-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JPK View Post
I tried it long ago, thinking the small Spro's just couldn't eliminate that much twist... I was then surprised by how much they really do!

Fwiw, I don't think a small Spro 30' in front of the bait is a stealth issue, and having the Spro there allows changing out rigs by just snipping at the Spro and then attaching the new rig via crimp.

[We knot the Spros to the main line for 50's and under, crimp them on 80's and 130's, crimp all leaders to the Spro regardless of line or leader size.]

JPK
Yeah I agree with you. I fish a lot short handed and with greenies so I was thinking of a way to eliminate the need to wire the fish. Have you tried any wind on swivels with success?
Old 07-19-2014, 01:01 PM
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BahamaLures are keel weighted and do not roll, you can crimp them direct to the wind on leader without worrying about line twist.

https://www.handmadetackle.com/produ...bahamalures-2/
Old 07-19-2014, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cuzzon View Post
Yeah I agree with you. I fish a lot short handed and with greenies so I was thinking of a way to eliminate the need to wire the fish. Have you tried any wind on swivels with success?
Fish wind-ons all day long but with a 4-6' leader for lures. Eliminates need for wireman. Just reel the fish to within gaffing distance, easy peezy.
Old 07-19-2014, 06:43 PM
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Arrow What Kinda TUNA ???

Originally Posted by cuzzon View Post
Just thinking out loud. If trolling for tuna, why not use a fluorocarbon wind on leader crimped directly to the lure? You could use the twisted double line rig between the lure head and hook and eliminate the swivel. I realize it may create line twists, but how bad? (could cut off lure and remove line twist on way in at end of day). Would be more stealthy than a big snap swivel or even a small spro. Anyone try this?
What Kinda TUNA ???
How Big ???
Where ???
....... IMO, a SPRO (swivel) is a MUST.....
a USE a Set-Up with a,
SPRO #5, #120, i reel them up & threw my Guides....
Never had a Problem.....
Old 07-19-2014, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Woody Woods View Post
Fish wind-ons all day long but with a 4-6' leader for lures. Eliminates need for wireman. Just reel the fish to within gaffing distance, easy peezy.
This. No quicker way to lose a tuna than to try muscling it beside the boat.
Old 07-19-2014, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Skookaloop View Post
What Kinda TUNA ???
How Big ???
Where ???
....... IMO, a SPRO (swivel) is a MUST.....
a USE a Set-Up with a,
SPRO #5, #120, i reel them up & threw my Guides....
Never had a Problem.....
... Spro HD 150/240# wind-on swivels work for me.
Old 07-20-2014, 06:14 AM
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cuzzon.
I tried this years ago, because kingfish, in particular, have a maddening habit of hitting the swivel above a hooked fish and cutting him off. But, no matter how careful I was to have my baits and lures running right, I still got twists. I went back to the swivels, using the smallest black Sampos I could find. I did and still do, single hand a lot, but since I spent some time, beginning in my teens, as a charter mate, it is second nature for me to take a wrap with one hand and use the gaff with the other. However, wind-on swivels do sound like a good idea.
Old 07-20-2014, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Woody Woods View Post
Fish wind-ons all day long but with a 4-6' leader for lures. Eliminates need for wireman. Just reel the fish to within gaffing distance, easy peezy.
Ok, I guess I was thinking that Tuna with their keen eyesight could be spooked by a swivel that close to the lure. Guess thats not the case when trolling? Thanks for all the responses!
Old 07-20-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cuzzon View Post
Yeah I agree with you. I fish a lot short handed and with greenies so I was thinking of a way to eliminate the need to wire the fish. Have you tried any wind on swivels with success?
The Spros we use are wind ons. A roller tip top is helpful, but they pass through ring guides fine. We use 80lb Spros on 50's and 130lb Spros on 80's and 130's.

Most of our tuna fishing is done with "direct drive" ballyhoo rigs. Mainline to Spro swivel, 30' wind on to a pin rigged ballyhoo with a seawitch or Illander, whatever. You need to re rig on the boat when a bait washes out or gets hit, but that takes only a few seconds.

There are days where you can get away with a short leader and those when you can't. The problem is that you will only know at the end of the day, if then. So go stealth all of the time.

JPK
Old 07-20-2014, 08:43 PM
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Simplify it with a long (25-50') fluoro leader with a spliced loop connection to a small wind-on swivel.
If you don't care to splice your own ... Go to BHP
Old 07-20-2014, 08:50 PM
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No need for a spliced loop. A Polomar to the swivel and then crimp the fluro on. The crimps run through the guides fine and are easier to redo then unwrapping a cat's paw.

A 100' skein of fluro makes three leaders...

JPK
Old 07-20-2014, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cuzzon View Post
Ok, I guess I was thinking that Tuna with their keen eyesight could be spooked by a swivel that close to the lure. Guess thats not the case when trolling? Thanks for all the responses!
It is the case in some places particularly parts of the South Pacific where the water is gin clear-Fiji & Tonga come to mind.
Old 07-21-2014, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam Salmon View Post
It is the case in some places particularly parts of the South Pacific where the water is gin clear-Fiji & Tonga come to mind.
Its the same here some days, whether the water is gin clear gulf stream eddy water or pea green inshore soup. Some days a swivel or snap swivel close to the bait = skunk. Some days it just doesn't make a difference. No way to know which is which until the end of the day, if then.

JPK
Old 07-21-2014, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cuzzon View Post
Ok, I guess I was thinking that Tuna with their keen eyesight could be spooked by a swivel that close to the lure. Guess thats not the case when trolling? Thanks for all the responses!
To be quite honest, we don't catch very many tuna trolling. Not on lures, anyhow. Usually a good first light and last light bite on ballyhoo. If we are gonna whack tuna, it is done chunking or live baiting. The tuna that do bite your lures on the weedline are going to be monsters.
Old 07-21-2014, 09:56 AM
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We always use 25-30 ft leaders for tuna trolling Balyhoo with sea witches or just meat. The tiny swivel is never a problem. I like the small Spro barrel 100 or 150. They go back and forth through the guides with ease and the do not damage the roller guides. I don't like the narrow stiff windon swivels. I have seen then hang up in the tip roller. Nice to get them close to the boat especially on a CC for the gaff.

If you set your riggers at a higher angle the swivel is very rarely in the water with longer leaders. To many people run there riggers way to flat.
Old 07-23-2014, 06:40 AM
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How about this setup with the swivel behind the lure head? This is from Peter Pakula.
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Old 07-26-2014, 06:19 AM
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Bump for the pic
Old 07-29-2014, 11:00 AM
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Bump again for the pic. JPK?

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