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Old 04-16-2014, 02:52 AM
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Hi there i am going to be that new guy at the dock soon with a charter business. I have about 15 years of fishing experience and 2 of them have been here in hawaii. My other experiences have been mainly in the gulf IE dauphin Island AL, I am going to start looking seriously for a good boat in about another year or maybe sooner. The boat market here in hawaii is pretty horrible. They want a lot of money for a decent boat. I see these old 1970-85 Hats and old Betrums here. The engines usually have 4-11000 hours on them and they still want 90-145K for them and i look at the mainland and the boats are usually a 3rd of the cost with half the hours and they usually look better. With that being said taking in consideration for slip fees expenses and comfort of the charter. Would you recommend some of the larger boats like 42-50 foot vikings hats or egg harbors or would you stick to the 28-37 foot range. Thinking of possible even getting a older Betrum because I have seen a bunch of them in Cali with Diesels and very low hours some as low as 800hrs with recent haul outs and only 30-50k. I understand for a 28-35 footer i would be looking at some where around 14-20k to ship. Also I use fiberglass outriggers bc of the time the last and no assemble required. Would you guys recommend to continue using them or should i upgrade to something more nice like the rupp ones. My other question of a million is with big game fishing would you recommend a chair or the samson fighting post.... I have a buddy who has one of the samson fighting post in his boat and to me it was a fun fight. Currently I fight all my fish in my boat from the gunnels with swivel road holders. I prefer the gunnels bc its way harder than chair and post but i have to look at what the charter would prefer. I like the professional look of the chair but i know harden anglers prefer belts or gunnels. Some information would be very helpful for a soon to be new guy bc at the end of the day i don't wanna get rich i just wanna do something I love and feed my family
Old 04-16-2014, 05:52 AM
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A chair is for big fish. Hawaii has big fish. 130's on bent butts is pretty typical for their blue marlin. Get the chair, and get a good bucket harness to go with it. In addition, you will be sportfishing, there is little sport in fighting a fish from a rod holder.

Stand up fishing can be great, but you have to start out knowing you are stand up fishing since proper chair tackle and proper stand up tackle are not interchangeable. Most charters cannot handle big fish on stand up, and many don't want to.

You will want Rupp or Lee tournament style spreader equipped outriggers to pull the large and medium plugs used for Hawaii's marlin fishing.

Here's a link to the Northern Light, a very successful charter boat. It is a Merritt 37. Take a look at their cockpit, chair, tackle, outriggers. The closer you can get to their set up the better. http://www.fishingnorthernlights.com/

Here is a link to the Marlin Magic. Another very successful charter operation. The boat is a 43' Allied Marine. Take a look at their cockpit, chair, outriggers as well. http://www.marlinmagic.com/

Here's another well known, very successful Hawaii charter boat, and again note their set up and tackle, this one is a 39' Rybovich: http://www.seageniesportfishing.com/

JPK
Old 04-16-2014, 05:55 AM
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oh god, i feel bad everytime someone starts a post like this, get ready to have thick skin...
my advice is buy the best boat you can afford and plan to lose money for 2 years... I would eliminate the chair and use light standup tackle, much more fun for the angler.
Old 04-16-2014, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Angler Managemnt View Post
oh god, i feel bad everytime someone starts a post like this, get ready to have thick skin...
my advice is buy the best boat you can afford and plan to lose money for 2 years... I would eliminate the chair and use light standup tackle, much more fun for the angler.
Angler he'll be okay on this forum. Now, put this same topic over in the Southwest Forum of FS and they'll all be afraid he's asking for their numbers. The Southeast Forum, where I usually see you, those guys are much more helpful about everything.

That said, I don't know squat about the business from the business side. But, when I used to hire boats I know what I would look for and from that I'll offer this: it depends on the client you're looking for. When I perused captains and their boats on their websites I passed over the guys who did mostly backwater but would take me offshore if I wanted. Their boats were usually too small, and I wanted an offshore specialist. If the captain had a big sportfisher with a fighting chair, I passed him by because I wasn't looking for that kind of a day....a 2-4 hour fight against one or two fishes.

I chose the captains who had 30'-40' CC's, convertibles or express models, no fighting chairs, fished a variety of species like dolphin, tuna, grouper, snapper, wahoo and kingfish...ie., both trolling and bottom fishing so whatever conditions were present he could put me on fish.

If I were going to build a charter biz, that's how I'd approach buying a boat...what client am I looking to serve.

Good luck!!!
Old 04-16-2014, 07:09 AM
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Old 04-16-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by JPK View Post
A chair is for big fish. Hawaii has big fish. 130's on bent butts is pretty typical for their blue marlin. Get the chair, and get a good bucket harness to go with it. In addition, you will be sportfishing, there is little sport in fighting a fish from a rod holder.

Stand up fishing can be great, but you have to start out knowing you are stand up fishing since proper chair tackle and proper stand up tackle are not interchangeable. Most charters cannot handle big fish on stand up, and many don't want to.

You will want Rupp or Lee tournament style spreader equipped outriggers to pull the large and medium plugs used for Hawaii's marlin fishing.

Here's a link to the Northern Light, a very successful charter boat. It is a Merritt 37. Take a look at their cockpit, chair, tackle, outriggers. The closer you can get to their set up the better. http://www.fishingnorthernlights.com/

Here is a link to the Marlin Magic. Another very successful charter operation. The boat is a 43' Allied Marine. Take a look at their cockpit, chair, outriggers as well. http://www.marlinmagic.com/

Here's another well known, very successful Hawaii charter boat, and again note their set up and tackle, this one is a 39' Rybovich: http://www.seageniesportfishing.com/

JPK
Just wondering JPK about the outriggers... Is it because the others look more professional than the killwell and the long reach kind... I have pulled spreaders with my fiberglass ones and i have helped a charter that used to fish with fiberglass long reach outriggers. By no means am i criticizing at all i am just wondering is there a difference in the action of the spreader bars... I use the Aftco Roller clips for my release on my outriggers and i usually don't have a problem with 15 inch lures or spreaders snatching them down. The only issue i have had wight he outriggers is i had my top outrigger slips start sticking and little PB blast and it was good to go lol. Also in reference to the chair do you think a bucket harness holding them securely to the Argonne Design Sampson fighting post. Once again not shooting at what you said its just when i get advice i like to know the logic behind things also if you guys aren't sure what these things are this is the fighting post http://www.arrigonidesign.com/samspost.htm
Old 04-16-2014, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro251wa View Post
Angler he'll be okay on this forum. Now, put this same topic over in the Southwest Forum of FS and they'll all be afraid he's asking for their numbers. The Southeast Forum, where I usually see you, those guys are much more helpful about everything.

That said, I don't know squat about the business from the business side. But, when I used to hire boats I know what I would look for and from that I'll offer this: it depends on the client you're looking for. When I perused captains and their boats on their websites I passed over the guys who did mostly backwater but would take me offshore if I wanted. Their boats were usually too small, and I wanted an offshore specialist. If the captain had a big sportfisher with a fighting chair, I passed him by because I wasn't looking for that kind of a day....a 2-4 hour fight against one or two fishes.

I chose the captains who had 30'-40' CC's, convertibles or express models, no fighting chairs, fished a variety of species like dolphin, tuna, grouper, snapper, wahoo and kingfish...ie., both trolling and bottom fishing so whatever conditions were present he could put me on fish.

If I were going to build a charter biz, that's how I'd approach buying a boat...what client am I looking to serve.

Good luck!!!
Thanks, Yes I stay tight on the SE forum on Florida Sportsman. I agree completely and thats why I set up my charter business that way, with a 35 foot center console rigged to the brim for live bait bait kite and dredge fishing. With superlight tackle and the finest of everything, a young hard working and very enthusiastic crew, I have no problem charging a premium, because thats what you get on my boat, the premium experience. Price is subjective, I always get "well I found a boat for $50 a guy" and I say, well you go that drection then, you'll be sharing the boat with 6-10 others, get an old senator on a junk rod, and a pile of cut bait and be untangling lines and catching small "crap" fish all day... now, if you want to use new gear, light line, and fish live goggle-eyes under kites and have excitement catching large sailfish, dolphin, kings, wahoo, tuna and more, and have a free gopro video including underwater footage, and a captainand mae who do this for the love of fishing and not money...then come on my boat... Somertimes I think people think "charter boats" all do the same thing, but boy is that the furthest thing from the truth. People appreciate it and I'm so busy I never needed a website or web marketing. It's all word of mouth.
Old 04-16-2014, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Angler Managemnt View Post
Thanks, Yes I stay tight on the SE forum on Florida Sportsman. I agree completely and thats why I set up my charter business that way, with a 35 foot center console rigged to the brim for live bait bait kite and dredge fishing. With superlight tackle and the finest of everything, a young hard working and very enthusiastic crew, I have no problem charging a premium, because thats what you get on my boat, the premium experience. Price is subjective, I always get "well I found a boat for $50 a guy" and I say, well you go that drection then, you'll be sharing the boat with 6-10 others, get an old senator on a junk rod, and a pile of cut bait and be untangling lines and catching small "crap" fish all day... now, if you want to use new gear, light line, and fish live goggle-eyes under kites and have excitement catching large sailfish, dolphin, kings, wahoo, tuna and more, and have a free gopro video including underwater footage, and a captainand mae who do this for the love of fishing and not money...then come on my boat... Somertimes I think people think "charter boats" all do the same thing, but boy is that the furthest thing from the truth. People appreciate it and I'm so busy I never needed a website or web marketing. It's all word of mouth.
I would love to save be able to mobile and have a nice CC. I watched your last posted video and you had the anglers sit bc of rough seas. Looks like you have a awesome set up and the crew looks very pleased. My worries about CC here is a day in the gulf or Atlantic is almost what we would call a about average day in Hawaii. The pro to being here is 10min outside the harbor and your in 700 feet of water. Unfortunately when the fish start getting a lot of pressure as they do often here they will start moving more and more off shore. After you get outside the wind line of the island you start getting the real effect of the 7 foot swell with 8 foot wind waves. Also I will be trolling and I worry about the comfort of the crew and them getting sea spray... Never fished Hawaii with a large CC.. Also light tackle here is very hard to do bc of the large mahi tuna wahoo and marlin... Some of the tuna here will get over 250 pounds and the water here is very fast. I also worry about the safety of the crew trying to stand up and fight with 80's bc I have done it a few times and unless the water is calm on my small boat it's nearly impossible. With that being said does running duel outboards hurt you a lot with expenses. Also never really had a big CC was spoiled as a kid fishing from bigger boat. So in a nut shell idk how they ride and if they would be good here in Hawaii... Would love some feed back bc once again not criticizing any post just trying to explain the situation here in Hawaii. Honestly I could have a boat made here and commercial fish and make more money but I enjoy putting people on fish. I take my other military friends out with me for help on the deck and I very rarely will reel unless they are tired lol.
Old 04-16-2014, 08:30 AM
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Sry I mean to say a rough day but sill fish able is about a fairly average day here
Old 04-16-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ROLLTIDE808 View Post
Just wondering JPK about the outriggers... Is it because the others look more professional than the killwell and the long reach kind... I have pulled spreaders with my fiberglass ones and i have helped a charter that used to fish with fiberglass long reach outriggers. By no means am i criticizing at all i am just wondering is there a difference in the action of the spreader bars... I use the Aftco Roller clips for my release on my outriggers and i usually don't have a problem with 15 inch lures or spreaders snatching them down. The only issue i have had wight he outriggers is i had my top outrigger slips start sticking and little PB blast and it was good to go lol. Also in reference to the chair do you think a bucket harness holding them securely to the Argonne Design Sampson fighting post. Once again not shooting at what you said its just when i get advice i like to know the logic behind things also if you guys aren't sure what these things are this is the fighting post http://www.arrigonidesign.com/samspost.htm


I am familiar with sampson posts. They have there place and their plusses and minuses. If you buy a true sportfish, ie. twin diesel, sufficient cockpit, flybridge for visability, then, imo, you ought to have a chair. You will need the chair for tourneys, sampson posts or rod holders are against the rules of almost every tourney anywhere.

A chair with a bucket harness and a bent butt 80w or 130 is a remarkably efficient tool, if the angler knows how to use it (straight leg technique, which you can google.) It is way overkill on smaller fish, but the best method for big fish. There is good reason that the top boats in Hawaii are all similarly equipped, with the full range of tackle and, most importantly, the big guns - bent butt 80w's and 130's, chair and bucket harness.

Here's a write up of chair and bucket harness use, from NZ. http://www.fishing.net.nz/how-to/gam...g-game-chairs/

Here's another from Sportfishing Magazine: http://www.sportfishingmag.com/techniques/give-me-chair

Here's a video of the Ramaseas, a 61' Gary Davis (my boat is a 56' Gary Davis) in Bermuda, take a look 18 minutes on, they guy has good chair technique and the kill a 544lbs blue. [The Ramaseas has an off set chair stanchion, needed because of the beam of the 61'er, so the rod tip will clear the corners. A smaller boat does not need an offset stanchion.)

On riggers, by spreaders, I don't mean spreader bars, ie. tuna bars, I mean the stabilizing spreaders, with guy wires, on Rupp Tournament or similar style outriggers.

I know that on the west coast, and to some extent in Hawaii too, that long unstayed riggers are believed to help add action to lures and to catch more fish. However, I also know that that is a fading belief, and unique around the world of big game sportfishing. Moreover, the east coast boats that transit the canal and fish the west coast, central America, Mexico, with their triple spreader Rupp Tournament riggers often do as well as or better than local boats; the great majority of boats fishing the barrier reef have stayed riggers and those fishing the Canary Islands, Cape Verde and Madera as well. I also believe that the boat raises the fish, the bait or lure convinces it to eat. I want the target to be pretty easy for the fish to eat, which to me means running stably.

I have a couple of good buds who have traveled the world's big fish places, mating or captaining sportfishing boats, including in Hawaii. I will ask them for their opinions on stayed or unstayed riggers.

BTW, if you look at the Marlin Magic website you will see that they refitted their 54' Allied Marine with stayed, triple spreader outriggers, replacing the unstayed riggers. You will also see that their 43' Allied Marine still has unstayed aluminum riggers.

JPK
Old 04-16-2014, 09:01 AM
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Here's a photo of a friend of mine in the chair on a big swordfish. He has 31lbs of drag on the reel. He is relaxed and smiling. He is not your average angler though, and has caught a grander out of Kona, at 1106lbs, iirc.
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JPK
Old 04-16-2014, 10:41 AM
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Thanks JPK That was exactly the information i need. Its hard to get info from a lot of CPTs on the island especially when they see this 26 year old punk who most of them have never seen or worked with before. Nice set chair. One of my concerns with a boat over 38 foot is thats the biggest size i have ever put on a slip and it was on the end with a open harbor. Many of the harbors here in hawaii are very tight and i don't want to cause a issue by clipping another boat trying to get in my slip... Especially not with a crew on the boat lol. Some of the harbors you almost need a twin screw to get into the slips especially if you have a back row slip..... The biggest concern is the total expenses. Bigger boat bigger slip more money lol Bigger boat bigger engine more expensive maint lol. I am placing money to the side for a loss a for some time. I just have too many uncertainties right now..... I guess thats why i post on here lol.....
Old 04-16-2014, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ROLLTIDE808 View Post
Hi there i am going to be that new guy at the dock soon with a charter business. I have about 15 years of fishing experience and 2 of them have been here in hawaii. My other experiences have been mainly in the gulf IE dauphin Island AL, I am going to start looking seriously for a good boat in about another year or maybe sooner. The boat market here in hawaii is pretty horrible. They want a lot of money for a decent boat. I see these old 1970-85 Hats and old Betrums here. The engines usually have 4-11000 hours on them and they still want 90-145K for them and i look at the mainland and the boats are usually a 3rd of the cost with half the hours and they usually look better. With that being said taking in consideration for slip fees expenses and comfort of the charter. Would you recommend some of the larger boats like 42-50 foot vikings hats or egg harbors or would you stick to the 28-37 foot range. Thinking of possible even getting a older Betrum because I have seen a bunch of them in Cali with Diesels and very low hours some as low as 800hrs with recent haul outs and only 30-50k. I understand for a 28-35 footer i would be looking at some where around 14-20k to ship. Also I use fiberglass outriggers bc of the time the last and no assemble required. Would you guys recommend to continue using them or should i upgrade to something more nice like the rupp ones. My other question of a million is with big game fishing would you recommend a chair or the samson fighting post.... I have a buddy who has one of the samson fighting post in his boat and to me it was a fun fight. Currently I fight all my fish in my boat from the gunnels with swivel road holders. I prefer the gunnels bc its way harder than chair and post but i have to look at what the charter would prefer. I like the professional look of the chair but i know harden anglers prefer belts or gunnels. Some information would be very helpful for a soon to be new guy bc at the end of the day i don't wanna get rich i just wanna do something I love and feed my family
RollTide,
Some real life experience related to some of your questions: I fish Oahu, have since late '80s, got a 32' Blackfin Express w/ tower (single spreader Rupp riggers), slipped in Waianae, purely recreational, have a chair, but do not have it installed, use exclusively stand up gear. So my input would be:
- a 31' Bertram is a good Leeward side boat
- if not Leeward, then something bigger
- tournament riggers wouldn't be necessary
- a chair for sure, stand up w/ the typical slop will be conducive to an accident waiting to happen, sure we do it but have been for many years
- If you want to spend a day on the Blackfin, hit me up.

Good Luck
Pat
Old 04-16-2014, 11:27 AM
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Sry i tried to repost but THT went nuts... I would love to get the chance to learn from you. I am all about learning especially from people who have been fishing here a while. I normally fish windward south shore or north shore.... Not much luck on leeward. Just can't get it going out there. Just PM me if you would like to exchange information
Old 04-16-2014, 04:08 PM
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I have fished Hawaii many times. The trips to deep water are quick. I would try to get an old 31 Bertram as a first choice. They were built to fish. The gunnels are low. This makes handling big fish with bills along side the boat a piece of cake. Thee next boat would be 35 Bertram. They are like a 31 on steroids. I currently own both a 31B and a 35B. The 35B is going to have a nice air conditioned salon. I have a Murray Large fighting chair that fits nicely and leaves plenty of room to walk around.
As a veteran angler I would NEVER fight a fish out of a rod holder. Why don't you just get a couple electric reels and crank them in.
As far as belts and harness on a charter, you asking for a career ending lawsuit. The first angler that's gets pulled over and drowned with be you last charter trip.

Put them in the chair and always have the bucket harness secured to the chair tightly. Give them just enough room to slid back and fourth a few inches.

There used to be a TV featuring a 35 Bertram called Sundowner. Norm Issas was the captain.
Old 04-16-2014, 04:14 PM
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The betram are nice fishing machines and they don't absolutely break the bank. When I first arrived on island I went out in one on a charter the water was flat. It was a 31 seemed kinda cramped but it had a very low flybridge the captain would stay up in a tower instead of the flybridge. Also is the low gunnels a liability or not really one I have to worry about in means of law suites and injuries

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