Go Back  The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > SportFishing and Charters Forum
Reload this Page >

New England Bluefin- stand up bent butt, which one?

Notices

New England Bluefin- stand up bent butt, which one?

Old 02-06-2011, 07:59 AM
  #1  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Norwalk, CT
Posts: 1,032
Default New England Bluefin- stand up bent butt, which one?

Ok, I figured this is the best place to get a good response. With the mixed crowd up and down the east coast we have on here, I should hear some good points.

I am having a rod built for Cape Cod bluefin. The rod will double duty as my rod for NE Canyon trips for swords, sharks, YFT etc. Primary use will be as a stand up bait rod for the Cape.

I see many different opinions on rods and blanks. And even more options, than opinions.

What rods do you use for 200lbs+ tuna? I am leaning towards a Calstar 60-100# (not sure of the model number, but has a nice bend, very new blank). I also hear good things about the Boomers, Baja Boomers, Boomer Jr's. I also hear a lot about Seekers. Very hard to come up with a decision.

I plan on drifting kites and/or flat lines with live bait. Stand up, with a harness, not a swivel rod holder, with a bent butt.

Any ideas? Share experiences good or bad. TIA.
crazy8 is offline  
Old 02-06-2011, 08:24 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Gloucester, Ma.
Posts: 955
Default

For me it is a short (no more than 6') rod with a short bent butt rated 50-130lb with aftco bigfoot rollers married to a shimano 50 wlrsa spooled with 130lb braid with mono topshot.

I like a 130lb flouro leader, kite line leader higher lb since it's out of the water.

Drag set at 44lbs at full (wlrsa 50 highest).

This setup has worked flawlessly for fish in a variety of size categories for me.

Fishermansoutfitters.com and firstlightanglers.com, as well as several others are great places to find these set-ups.
1rider is offline  
Old 02-06-2011, 10:41 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,383
Default

Originally Posted by 1rider View Post
For me it is a short (no more than 6') rod with a short bent butt rated 50-130lb with aftco bigfoot rollers married to a shimano 50 wlrsa spooled with 130lb braid with mono topshot.

I like a 130lb flouro leader, kite line leader higher lb since it's out of the water.

Drag set at 44lbs at full (wlrsa 50 highest).

This setup has worked flawlessly for fish in a variety of size categories for me.

Fishermansoutfitters.com and firstlightanglers.com, as well as several others are great places to find these set-ups.
I would second the recommendation to go around 6' length 50-130 class with all roller guides or at least a roller tip and foot. Calstar "Grafighter" blanks are what I have been using and they seem to hold hold up very well and are able to apply lots of pressure to the fish.
ClassicGuy is offline  
Old 02-06-2011, 01:37 PM
  #4  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bourne, Ma
Posts: 555
Default Bent Butt

As Fred (Classic Guy) said, 50-130. We use 70's with bent butts and we only do stand up. With the size of the fish that we hope will show up this spring, i like the 70's. I spool with dacron and a 100yd top shot( i change out top shots frequently). To answer the question, I have been using Cape Cod Rod Co. rods, they are only sold at red top. I have caught fish to 250lbs with no issue, i set my drags at 26 at strike, not sure what they are at full. Capt Eric at the Hook-up has a great rod also, we got a 775 lb BFT on a 70 setup, while we were fighting that fish (5hours), we locked up the reel (the mate jammed it with his gloved hands!!) and the rod was doubled over BIG time with no issues. Good luck!
Capt. Kevin
Simonsez is offline  
Old 02-06-2011, 02:04 PM
  #5  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: marblehead
Posts: 2,341
Default

Yup, what all the CC guys said.
Ethan is offline  
Old 02-07-2011, 05:53 AM
  #6  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Manchester, NH USA
Posts: 3,531
Default

Originally Posted by Simonsez View Post
As Fred (Classic Guy) Capt Eric at the Hook-up has a great rod also, we got a 775 lb BFT on a 70 setup, while we were fighting that fish (5hours), we locked up the reel (the mate jammed it with his gloved hands!!) and the rod was doubled over BIG time with no issues. Capt. Kevin
I have two of the Hook-Up Bluefin Tuna Series rods (short bent butt) with Penn 70 reels spooled with 130lb Jerry Brown with 100yds of Momoi on top. It's a very nice setup.

I also have two Pinnacle Marine series rods (short bent butt) paired with Shimano Tiagra 50WLRS reels. These are very nice as well, but I'm a bit concerned these may be a bit undersized for the fish we're liable to see this year.
Door#3 is offline  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:34 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Gloucester, Ma.
Posts: 955
Default

Door #3,

On the surface it may appear that the Penn 70 is the better weapon for some of these bigger fish we will see.

The Penn 70 holds more line than the Shimano 50 wlrsa.
Penn-1600 yds of 150 lb braid to Shimano's 1180 yds of 150 lb braid.

Not that different IMO.
However the difference that I think is significant is the drag.

The Penn 35 lbs. MAX to Shimano's 35 lbs. @ strike and 44 lbs. MAX!
The Shimano 50 wlrsa is a beast of a reel. That 44 lbs of drag is higher than the Penn 80 vsx at 40 lbs.
(I got these stats from the manufacturer's websites, sorry for not posting a link.)

We have all seen Mr. Braid in action and how quickly he subdues monster tuna. The key is maximum pressure on the fish early in the fight.

For me the better weapon is the Shimano.
1rider is offline  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:39 PM
  #8  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: staten island ny
Posts: 84
Default

do the short bent butt rods fit in a regular rod holder and do the long bent but rods make it tuff to fight a fish with a stand up belt on i am also looking to buy a few of these setups
Goin Coastal is offline  
Old 02-07-2011, 04:02 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Gloucester, Ma.
Posts: 955
Default

Yes, the short bent butts will fit in a regular rod holder. If you have or install deep/swivel rod holders for standard size bent butts you will want a spacer in them when you are using the shorts.

I personally would not want to fight a fish from a harness with a standard bent butt. The further away from your body the rod is the more your body will be leveraged, tiring you quicker. That is why most stand up gear is in the vicinity if 6' or less.

I once had the notion that long was good and bought a few penn international rods that were 6'10" and fighting fish on them literally KICKED MY ASS!
1rider is offline  
Old 02-07-2011, 05:13 PM
  #10  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: marblehead
Posts: 2,341
Default

Originally Posted by 1rider View Post
Yes, the short bent butts will fit in a regular rod holder. If you have or install deep/swivel rod holders for standard size bent butts you will want a spacer in them when you are using the shorts.

I personally would not want to fight a fish from a harness with a standard bent butt. The further away from your body the rod is the more your body will be leveraged, tiring you quicker. That is why most stand up gear is in the vicinity if 6' or less.

I once had the notion that long was good and bought a few penn international rods that were 6'10" and fighting fish on them literally KICKED MY ASS!
Yup, Hate Penns, 'cept for the 130's, older version. It's Sheemano or no go! Don't worry I even dislike all my Accurates
Ethan is offline  
Old 02-07-2011, 05:30 PM
  #11  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Manchester, NH USA
Posts: 3,531
Default

Originally Posted by 1rider View Post
Door #3,

On the surface it may appear that the Penn 70 is the better weapon for some of these bigger fish we will see.

The Penn 70 holds more line than the Shimano 50 wlrsa.
Penn-1600 yds of 150 lb braid to Shimano's 1180 yds of 150 lb braid.

Not that different IMO.
However the difference that I think is significant is the drag.

The Penn 35 lbs. MAX to Shimano's 35 lbs. @ strike and 44 lbs. MAX!
The Shimano 50 wlrsa is a beast of a reel. That 44 lbs of drag is higher than the Penn 80 vsx at 40 lbs.
(I got these stats from the manufacturer's websites, sorry for not posting a link.)

We have all seen Mr. Braid in action and how quickly he subdues monster tuna. The key is maximum pressure on the fish early in the fight.

For me the better weapon is the Shimano.
I understand what you are saying. I do think the stated specs on the Penn 70 are a bit conservative. I set my drags with a scale and will set them both at 25 @ strike. The Penn achieves 25lbs so easily that I usually have it at 25lbs well short of the strike setting on the lever. Then I have the option to move it to strike for more drag, and past strike if necessary. So, while the book says one thing my experience says another. On the Tiagras I set them to 25lbs with the lever at strike. Either way, both reels can deliver more drag than I'm likely to be able to handle standing up :-).

But, my concern about my 50 setups was more about the rods than the reels. The Pinnacle Marine rods are great. My son and I have tested them in the harness with the Tiagras locked down and they handle the pressure, but we can apply more pressure more easily with the Hook Up rods. They are a bit longer and Seeker blanks that they are based on are sweet. When I purchased the Penn / Hook Up combos I had the opportunity to get fours sets for a really great price and only purchased two. I still kick myself for that. Proof that my 20 20 hind sight is still operational :-)
Door#3 is offline  
Old 02-07-2011, 06:32 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,050
Default

Can't go wrong with a Calstar or Seeker. My stand-up tuna rod is a grafighter blank, GF410XH. 4'10" blank trimmed down a couple of inches plus the aluminum butt gives me a 6' rod. It is rated 40-100. It has an Avet 50W with 600 yards of 130 spectra and 150 of 100 mono topshot. No fish on it yet, argh, but testing shows the rod will bend nicely with 20 pounds of drag and still held 60 pounds. Though my thighs will never hold 60 in real life scenario, but it is nice to know the setup can. The 750 yards of line is plenty. Any fish that can take that on a maneuverable CC has earned its freedom.
Locke N Load is offline  
Old 02-08-2011, 12:24 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,383
Default

Let's not forget the angler in the equation with standup tackle. In my case it would be pointless to have a setup that had 40-50lbs of drag for standup. I am a quite fit older guy who was an endurance athlete (bicycle racer, nothing harder!) but I only weigh 145 lbs. "Meat" fishing for giants, I use 80s and 130s in a swivel rod holder with 50lbs of drag or more to bring the fish to the boat quickly. But fishing for sport standup, there is no way I can manage tackle with that high a drag setting on a boat that might be bouncing around.

A good friend and fishing partner who was a college football player and weighs about 210 lbs can use the 80's in a harness standup, but I sure can't. So I think you need to consider who will be using the tackle. I would rather have a lighter setup with a Shimano 50WLRSA than the heavier 70 or 80 reels and I think 95% of the time, that combination will deal with any fish you want to fight standup.

I also second the comments about the Shimano Tiagras versus the Penn V series. Penn has lost the edge they had years ago in my opinion. Shimano just makes a better machined and designed reel that will hold up year after year with only limited maintenance.
ClassicGuy is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 09:38 AM
  #14  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 12,691
Default

Originally Posted by ClassicGuy View Post
Let's not forget the angler in the equation with standup tackle. In my case it would be pointless to have a setup that had 40-50lbs of drag for standup. I am a quite fit older guy who was an endurance athlete (bicycle racer, nothing harder!) but I only weigh 145 lbs. "Meat" fishing for giants, I use 80s and 130s in a swivel rod holder with 50lbs of drag or more to bring the fish to the boat quickly. But fishing for sport standup, there is no way I can manage tackle with that high a drag setting on a boat that might be bouncing around.

A good friend and fishing partner who was a college football player and weighs about 210 lbs can use the 80's in a harness standup, but I sure can't. So I think you need to consider who will be using the tackle. I would rather have a lighter setup with a Shimano 50WLRSA than the heavier 70 or 80 reels and I think 95% of the time, that combination will deal with any fish you want to fight standup.

I also second the comments about the Shimano Tiagras versus the Penn V series. Penn has lost the edge they had years ago in my opinion. Shimano just makes a better machined and designed reel that will hold up year after year with only limited maintenance.
My wife is quite a bit smaller and with her technique she easily handles 32#s of drag If you cannot do that your technique needs tweaking as does the way your harness fits.
Myself and the people I fish most with use Avets They have a titainium drag so that tthe plate will never work harden like Stainless that is in those mentioned above. Stainless drag plates will develope work harden areas. These areas will have a higher level of drag coefficient that the surrounding area causing sticky drags. That is why some of them grease them. Even though they say it is for corrosion which is a side benefit it is because of the characteristics of the stainless that greasing the drag seems so benefical
I know Alantani will post up a pic of an LX series reel that looks nasty but I have yet to see a pro series reel with the same problem. The LX series of reels are different than the Pro series hence the cost differential
ubettcha13 is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 01:49 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,383
Default

Originally Posted by ubettcha13 View Post
My wife is quite a bit smaller and with her technique she easily handles 32#s of drag If you cannot do that your technique needs tweaking as does the way your harness fits.
Myself and the people I fish most with use Avets They have a titainium drag so that tthe plate will never work harden like Stainless that is in those mentioned above. Stainless drag plates will develope work harden areas. These areas will have a higher level of drag coefficient that the surrounding area causing sticky drags. That is why some of them grease them. Even though they say it is for corrosion which is a side benefit it is because of the characteristics of the stainless that greasing the drag seems so benefical
I know Alantani will post up a pic of an LX series reel that looks nasty but I have yet to see a pro series reel with the same problem. The LX series of reels are different than the Pro series hence the cost differential
32lbs is not the issue, most anyone who knows what they are doing can manage that with a proper full harness. I was talking about 45-50lbs of drag which for a light person is a real challenge no matter what their technique. My point was just that you can't totally ignore the angler. Bigger, heavier people (assuming all have good technique) can carry more drag standup than lighter people as a general rule. An obvious point of course, but still relevant to the choice of tackle.
ClassicGuy is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 04:06 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,480
Default

Originally Posted by ClassicGuy View Post
I would second the recommendation to go around 6' length 50-130 class with all roller guides or at least a roller tip and foot. Calstar "Grafighter" blanks are what I have been using and they seem to hold hold up very well and are able to apply lots of pressure to the fish.
I agree as well. We also build custom rods and can build you a really nice rod for you application.

Shoot me a PM and I can quote it anyway you want.
Terminator Tackle is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 07:53 PM
  #17  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Norwalk, CT
Posts: 1,032
Default

Originally Posted by ClassicGuy View Post
Let's not forget the angler in the equation with standup tackle. In my case it would be pointless to have a setup that had 40-50lbs of drag for standup. I am a quite fit older guy who was an endurance athlete (bicycle racer, nothing harder!) but I only weigh 145 lbs. "Meat" fishing for giants, I use 80s and 130s in a swivel rod holder with 50lbs of drag or more to bring the fish to the boat quickly. But fishing for sport standup, there is no way I can manage tackle with that high a drag setting on a boat that might be bouncing around.

A good friend and fishing partner who was a college football player and weighs about 210 lbs can use the 80's in a harness standup, but I sure can't. So I think you need to consider who will be using the tackle. I would rather have a lighter setup with a Shimano 50WLRSA than the heavier 70 or 80 reels and I think 95% of the time, that combination will deal with any fish you want to fight standup.

I also second the comments about the Shimano Tiagras versus the Penn V series. Penn has lost the edge they had years ago in my opinion. Shimano just makes a better machined and designed reel that will hold up year after year with only limited maintenance.

Very good point. The rod and reel mean nothing if the angler doesnt know what to do with it. I am in no means a tuna fighting stand up pro, but I have a decent amount of experience with big fish on stand up gear. I feel my technique is decent, but like everything, has room for improvement.

It may sound silly, but I keep myself in shape for fishing. It helps having a girlfriend that is a personal trainer. I try to keep a simple rule for myself- never pass the rod off! Staying in shape and healthy makes me a better fisherman. Strength and size are nothing without endurance and technique (although it doesnt hurt being 6'4" 235lbs).


Back on topic- All really good info here guys. Thanks! I talked to a local tackle shop today, they have a few Calstar customs in stock. I will check those out and use that for grounds for comparison. The guy at the shop recommended a 'new' Calstar, rated 60-100#. He said he just outfitted a guy for the Cape with 4 of these. He said he has some left I can stop in and put a bend on.

Whats is preffered by most on here- short bent butt or straight? I have fought quite a few fish on short bent butts and really like the feel. I have little experience with straight butts in a harness.
crazy8 is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:38 PM
  #18  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,713
Default

Originally Posted by crazy8 View Post
Very good point. The rod and reel mean nothing if the angler doesnt know what to do with it. I am in no means a tuna fighting stand up pro, but I have a decent amount of experience with big fish on stand up gear. I feel my technique is decent, but like everything, has room for improvement.

It may sound silly, but I keep myself in shape for fishing. It helps having a girlfriend that is a personal trainer. I try to keep a simple rule for myself- never pass the rod off! Staying in shape and healthy makes me a better fisherman. Strength and size are nothing without endurance and technique (although it doesnt hurt being 6'4" 235lbs).


Back on topic- All really good info here guys. Thanks! I talked to a local tackle shop today, they have a few Calstar customs in stock. I will check those out and use that for grounds for comparison. The guy at the shop recommended a 'new' Calstar, rated 60-100#. He said he just outfitted a guy for the Cape with 4 of these. He said he has some left I can stop in and put a bend on.

Whats is preffered by most on here- short bent butt or straight? I have fought quite a few fish on short bent butts and really like the feel. I have little experience with straight butts in a harness.
Not at all silly to stay in shape for fishing -- it can be pretty taxing to hang on to a big BFT or marlin on a 50 class reel for an hour or two.

A major consideration with straight versus bent butts is versatility. You can use a straight butt outfit quite easily for jigging (especially a 30 or 50 that is not too heavy) as well as trolling, chunking, or drifting live bait. Bent butts have advantages when fighting fish and work fine for trolling or in the rod holder for live bait, but they are pretty awkward to use for jigging or chunking when out of a harness.

One option is to have rods built up with the Aftco three piece butts that allow you to remove the section of butt below the reel seat. That way you can get some straight butt sections and switch out if you want to use the rods for jigging or chunking. The straight piece will cost you another $80 or so but then you can have the best of both worlds with the same basic rod and reell combo -- straight butt or bent butt as suits what you are doing. Another advantage of the three piece butts with a bent butt is that it is much easier to store the rods with the curved section removed.You can leave the line in place through the guides and ready to go which is not possible removing the butt and reel together on a conventional single-piece butt.

My heavier outfits have Tiagra 50W LRS reels with 80lb mono and the three piece butts. With the bent butt tail on the rods and 35lbs or so of drag, we have landed many 200+lb bluefin standup. They also work great with the straight butts chunking for yellowfni or jigging for BFT and are not too heavy to work for a few hours at the gunwale.
Nomans is offline  
Old 02-10-2011, 04:18 AM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Flemington, NJ
Posts: 281
Default

Originally Posted by Door#3 View Post
I understand what you are saying. I do think the stated specs on the Penn 70 are a bit conservative. I set my drags with a scale and will set them both at 25 @ strike. The Penn achieves 25lbs so easily that I usually have it at 25lbs well short of the strike setting on the lever. Then I have the option to move it to strike for more drag, and past strike if necessary. So, while the book says one thing my experience says another. On the Tiagras I set them to 25lbs with the lever at strike. Either way, both reels can deliver more drag than I'm likely to be able to handle standing up :-).

But, my concern about my 50 setups was more about the rods than the reels. The Pinnacle Marine rods are great. My son and I have tested them in the harness with the Tiagras locked down and they handle the pressure, but we can apply more pressure more easily with the Hook Up rods. They are a bit longer and Seeker blanks that they are based on are sweet. When I purchased the Penn / Hook Up combos I had the opportunity to get fours sets for a really great price and only purchased two. I still kick myself for that. Proof that my 20 20 hind sight is still operational :-)
You could do the same with the Shimano or any reel for that matter. That's why the proper comparison is pounds at strike while maintaining freespool. If you set the Penn so that you have 25lbs. "well before strike" you are likely not to have freespool at strike.
NJVector is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread