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Am I missing something on braid splices?

Old 07-03-2019, 12:53 PM
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Default Am I missing something on braid splices?

So many people recommend using hollow core braid because you can get a 100% strength splice to a mono topshot. But can you? Really? Have you ever tested it? I tried splicing 50lb hollow core to 50lb mono. The breaking strength of the splice was dramatically lower than the original strength of the braid. Down from 58lb to about 45lbs--on multiple tests. Increasing the mono to 80lb made it even worse.

The failure mode was always the same, right at the end of the mono, where it was buried in the braid. The sudden increase in diameter when the braid has to "climb up" over the larger diameter mono results in a stress point that leads to premature failure.

I tried cutting the end of the mono on a long taper, but that seemed to make things only a little bit better.

Am I missing something? Is there a trick to avoid this? Or does eveybody just assume the splice is as strong as is "should be" without testing it?

Until someone has a rational explanation for what I am doing wrong, I have gone back to a pair of loops joined with a catspaw. That has never reduced the strength in any way I can measure, I can do them in the cockpit on the fly, AND change topshots if I need to.
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Old 07-03-2019, 02:09 PM
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BRB - Popping some corn....
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by thefishingsailor View Post
Am I missing something? Is there a trick to avoid this? Or does eveybody just assume the splice is as strong as is "should be" without testing it?

Until someone has a rational explanation for what I am doing wrong, I have gone back to a pair of loops joined with a catspaw. That has never reduced the strength in any way I can measure, I can do them in the cockpit on the fly, AND change topshots if I need to.
So if I understand you right, you're no longer doing mono to braid splices and are now doing loop to loop instead. Does this mean you're tying Bimini twists in 50 and 80lb mono, in the cockpit, on the fly?

I have seen people sand the end of the mono to remove any sharp edges. Did you do that?

What brand hollow core?


Last edited by mdees88; 07-03-2019 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:17 PM
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I assume he has a loop in the end of the hollow core
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by VanW View Post
I assume he has a loop in the end of the hollow core
Yeah me too, but what is he connecting that loop to? his mono leader or another piece of braid?

If he is attaching the mono leader to the other piece of braid that has a loop in it, how is he doing that? FG, PR, splicing? If buying wiind-ons they are spliced...... which is what he is complaining about. If he is not going to have a splice, PR, or FG then he is tying a bimini twist in his mono leader and attaching to his hollowcore mainline with a loop to loop. Unless I'm missing something....

Just curious what he is doing...

Last edited by mdees88; 07-03-2019 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:33 PM
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Found this -

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Old 07-03-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mdees88 View Post
I have seen people sand the end of the mono to remove any sharp edges. Did you do that.
Always
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:32 PM
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Pass the popcorn please.

Yes, you’re missing something. The rest of the world splices higher test braid to lower test mono, eg. 130# braid to 80# mono. Please share why you would want to splice 80# mono to 50# braid.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:49 PM
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Does that get the dia's closer Ono . 80 mono to 50 braid would be like putting on a condom .
I would guess he's trying to get more line on the spool .
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lone Ono View Post
Pass the popcorn please.

Yes, you’re missing something. The rest of the world splices higher test braid to lower test mono, eg. 130# braid to 80# mono. Please share why you would want to splice 80# mono to 50# braid.
I'm currently using 60lb hollow but I could see splicing 80lb mono into 50 or 60 hollow for extra abrasion resistance when fishing for amberjacks.

But if I was doing that I would simply build a short wind on leader with the 80 mono and 60 hollow (or whatever size hollow I find works best with 80lb mono) then attach it loop to loop to my mainline.

Texasblue says he always sands his mono, and the man builds wind ons for a living. I'm betting that was the OP's problem.......

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Old 07-04-2019, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ed d View Post
Does that get the dia's closer Ono . 80 mono to 50 braid would be like putting on a condom .
I would guess he's trying to get more line on the spool .
When filling a spool with braid I’m using higher test braid to keep the yardage of braid lower. I guess if you were trying to compensate for an undersized reel you might go the other way. But if you wanted higher test mono would that be a top shot, or just a leader?
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Old 07-04-2019, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by thefishingsailor View Post
So many people recommend using hollow core braid because you can get a 100% strength splice to a mono topshot. But can you? Really? Have you ever tested it? I tried splicing 50lb hollow core to 50lb mono. The breaking strength of the splice was dramatically lower than the original strength of the braid. Down from 58lb to about 45lbs--on multiple tests.

Am I missing something?
Most people would never fish more than 20lbs drag on 50lb line. Who cares if it still breaks at 58lb or drops to 45lb, its still more than a 2x safety margin over when your drag should engage.

IMHO what you are missing, is the time you are obsessing over knot strength would pay better fish catching dividends being spent elsewhere.
Obsess over how to use your electronics, or read bathy charts, or the daily surface temp data, etc.
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Old 07-04-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Lone Ono View Post

When filling a spool with braid I’m using higher test braid to keep the yardage of braid lower. I guess if you were trying to compensate for an undersized reel you might go the other way. But if you wanted higher test mono would that be a top shot, or just a leader?
Good point . I fell down that hole reading this thread .
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:37 AM
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Well, geez guys I was really hoping for friendlier comments, but if I guess if I got those I might wonder if I logged into the wrong board!

But the consensus among the very few people who actually answered the question is, "You can't splice 50lb mono into 50lb PE braid at full strength--so don't expect to."

For those who wonder what I am doing with loop to loop connections, it is pretty simple. I splice a loop in the braid. If I need to remake that on the fly I tie a bimini twist (And to mdees88: Yes, in the cockpit since you seem to be skeptical about that for some reason.) Those all test out to full strength, all the time. I have pre-made leaders and top shots I make with loops spliced on. Those loops are made with hollow core Dacron (remember that stuff?) one or two grades stronger than the mono. The Dacron line is large enough in diameter I can get a good, full strength, splice every time. I am sure somebody will have a snarky comment about using Dacron, but for this it WORKS, and works well.

With that setup a fail at the joins is very unusual during a test, and if it does it is so close to full strength I can't measure the difference. It works in the real world, I have never had a failure of those connections while on a fish.

And toanswer Grunts and Grits: Fishing for big fish on light tackle is a game of details. I make no apologies for "obsessing" about always upgrading the weakest link in my system. If I lose a fish I obsess about why, and what I could have done to prevent it. Other than an unexpectedly toothy critter bitting the leader, there is almost never a break-off in open water that could not have been prevented by better technique or setup. If you accept failure, failure becomes normal. The best fishermen I know are all obsessive about it. Someday I might even be obsessive enough to get really good. :-)
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by thefishingsailor View Post
Well, geez guys I was really hoping for friendlier comments, but if I guess if I got those I might wonder if I logged into the wrong board!
Well you did start this off by insinuating you're the only person in the world that actually tests their gear.......


Originally Posted by thefishingsailor View Post
But the consensus among the very few people who actually answered the question is, "You can't splice 50lb mono into 50lb PE braid at full strength--so don't expect to."
Didn't see a single person in this thread say you could not get a 100% connection by splicing 50 mono into 50lb hollow...... not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Actually the only person here that builds wind ons for a living said he always sands the cut end of mono with sandpaper.

You asked if there was a trick to avoid the problem....

I asked if you sanded your mono but you never answered......

I suggest you give Doug (texasblue) a call. He does extensive testing with the wind ons he builds and is very knowledgeable about anything hollowcore....

He helped me get started with hollow and I learned a lot for him.... great guy

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Old 07-04-2019, 04:48 PM
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Might try a step splice- 50b hollow spliced to a 24"piece of 65-80 hollow to your 50b mono. Never know its there and you might retain the strength.
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:01 PM
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If we are talking about topshot to backing braid I have been using Bimini in braid . Then tie fg with the doubled braid onto mono .
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Old 07-05-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by thefishingsailor View Post
Well, geez guys I was really hoping for friendlier comments, but if I guess if I got those I might wonder if I logged into the wrong board!

I am sure somebody will have a snarky comment about using Dacron)
You’ve made the same “pitch” on another thread, reporting problems no one else really encounters and ending up with the “go back to Dacron” solution. I’m glad it works for you.
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Old 07-05-2019, 08:07 AM
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Of course he wants to justify to himself the Dacron (cheapest alternative) is the best.
He is a "sailboater", If I had noticed that before now I never would of wasted a reply on this post.
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Old 07-05-2019, 08:36 AM
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From a purely theoretical standpoint I just don't really see how ANY connection could be 100% of the strength of the original line.
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