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Monitoring the recreational fish catch.

Old 06-03-2019, 02:48 PM
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Default Monitoring the recreational fish catch.

Let me ask....how is our fish population monitored and restricted for recreational fisherman? The reason I ask is that it appears the daily catch limit, size limit and season are the only recreational tool used to restrict over fishing of a species . Also recreational fishermen do not report their catch. IMO, this doesn't work because the State simply sells unlimited fishing licenses. What good does lowering a daily limit do if you simply sell more and more licenses to more and more fishermen? Wouldn't it be better to restrict the number of licenses sold per geographical area (like #### lic's. sold in the Keys)? Or am I wrong in the way our fish are controlled? If I am...please educate me because I am curious. Thanks.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:11 PM
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Limits and season lengths are usually a political football that groups lobby for and against as far as I know.

I think that divers/sonar doing a fish count estimation for the same area each year would quantify this more objectively.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by homeby51 View Post
Let me ask....how is our fish population monitored and restricted for recreational fisherman? The reason I ask is that it appears the daily catch limit, size limit and season are the only recreational tool used to restrict over fishing of a species . Also recreational fishermen do not report their catch. IMO, this doesn't work because the State simply sells unlimited fishing licenses. What good does lowering a daily limit do if you simply sell more and more licenses to more and more fishermen? Wouldn't it be better to restrict the number of licenses sold per geographical area (like #### lic's. sold in the Keys)? Or am I wrong in the way our fish are controlled? If I am...please educate me because I am curious. Thanks.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:05 PM
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recreational fisherman that DON'T REPORT their catch are actually hurting themselves. when the pie is divied up so to speak those that previously used the most of a resource (reported) their catch get allotted the most in the future. it's a little hard to wrap your mind around but those that use less of an allotted resource (not report )in the future will be allotted less of that resource
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:25 PM
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NOAA has a research ship full of a bunch "scientist". I envision them riding around smokin a bunch of weed and laughing while they make up numbers to report as they are dragging up/killing millions of fish with their nets as they take "samples" to provide reports back to their administration. Whoever the new guy is.... I met one at the West End all he wanted to do is dispute what I see with my eyes when fishing for ARS. or diving and seeing schools that back out the sun..... I think he had mommy issues and needed a hug....
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:25 PM
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One of the most common measures used is Carch per unit effort (CPUE). Properly designed surveys can provide good trend reporting if applied properly.
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliboy View Post
One of the most common measures used is Carch per unit effort (CPUE). Properly designed surveys can provide good trend reporting if applied properly.
I've never seen a survey or been asked to survey my catch in my entire life. Where are these done?
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Timex View Post
recreational fisherman that DON'T REPORT their catch are actually hurting themselves. when the pie is divied up so to speak those that previously used the most of a resource (reported) their catch get allotted the most in the future. it's a little hard to wrap your mind around but those that use less of an allotted resource (not report )in the future will be allotted less of that resource
where do I report my fluke, bsb, bluefish, striper, tog? never once in my 38 years of life on earth have I ever been asked, surveyed, required, ect to report. both prior to the mandatory saltwater licence and after.

only ever been required to report catch on my HMS permit.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by homeby51 View Post
I've never seen a survey or been asked to survey my catch in my entire life. Where are these done?
Depends on the state. Iím in Florida and Iíve received mail surveys and been checked at a boat launch. The thing is you donít need to survey the entire fishing population, you only need a couple of percentage points to extrapolate the results out. So itís possible that someone who has been fishing a long time doesnít get surveyed.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:49 AM
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outside of the HMS permit, I have never heard of any state in the northeast, specifically New England, being required to report anything rec. ever.

I've certainly heard of part time/summer NOAA employees taking voluntary surveys at random boat launches from time to time but those aren't mandatory to comply.
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by homeby51 View Post
I've never seen a survey or been asked to survey my catch in my entire life. Where are these done?
https://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/...f-fish-survey/
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by homeby51 View Post
Let me ask....how is our fish population monitored and restricted for recreational fisherman? The reason I ask is that it appears the daily catch limit, size limit and season are the only recreational tool used to restrict over fishing of a species . Also recreational fishermen do not report their catch. IMO, this doesn't work because the State simply sells unlimited fishing licenses. What good does lowering a daily limit do if you simply sell more and more licenses to more and more fishermen? Wouldn't it be better to restrict the number of licenses sold per geographical area (like #### lic's. sold in the Keys)? Or am I wrong in the way our fish are controlled? If I am...please educate me because I am curious. Thanks.
Don't know the exact formula but it's something like - take a percentage of the total number of licensed fisherman, multiply the total allowable daily catch, times the number of days in the season, add in a mortality rate for the throw backs = total catch for season.

I sure someone far more learned than I will come along with the exact method.

In short it's akin to throwing darts in the dark.
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Old 06-05-2019, 04:06 AM
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My daughter works for the CT DEEP. Part of her job is to monitor and gather data so the State can assess the amount of fish caught, versus the effort. They use this to draw conclusions on the health of a fishery.

I can say this with 100% certainty..........the data collection methods are completely horrible. That's being kind...........they're a joke.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by John_Madison CT View Post
My daughter works for the CT DEEP. Part of her job is to monitor and gather data so the State can assess the amount of fish caught, versus the effort. They use this to draw conclusions on the health of a fishery.

I can say this with 100% certainty..........the data collection methods are completely horrible. That's being kind...........they're a joke.
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:48 AM
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I imagine a big dart board and a lot of beer involved when it comes to regs... They honestly don't have a clue
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Old 06-05-2019, 09:23 AM
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The stupid! It hurts! Not calling anyone out but really.

Anyway, to answer a couple of the op's questions.. First, fishing licenses have zero to do with how fish stocks are managed. Every person in the state could have one and it wouldnt matter.

First and foremost, they are z cssh grab. The justification for them was to narrow the pool for data collection to people who fish. They arent meant to limit access to the fishery.

Next, one thing the managers ayyempt to determine is what the existing biomass is. They do yhat primarily by fishing; test trawls, commercial landing reports, and other sources where they can get real numbers.

Once they esyimate biomass, they figure out what a safe harvest would look like. If biomass is stable or increasing, they divide the target harvest between sectors. Rec is usually a pretty small percentage, but not universally.

Then they try to estimaye how many people are fishing and how often, then they set limits to try to reach but not exceed the catch tsrget while maintaing biomass.

Its much more complex, but thats the basic process. Rec catch reporting isnt an exact science, but it doesnt need to be.

People dont like limits. But weve all seen fisheries crash. Usually they come back when emergency measures go in. But limits are needed. Some years they set them too high, some years too low.

It seems to work most of the time.
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Old 06-05-2019, 09:56 AM
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They SWAG (Stupid Wild Ass Guess) the numbers caught.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Timex View Post
recreational fisherman that DON'T REPORT their catch are actually hurting themselves. when the pie is divied up so to speak those that previously used the most of a resource (reported) their catch get allotted the most in the future. it's a little hard to wrap your mind around but those that use less of an allotted resource (not report )in the future will be allotted less of that resource
I disagree, as a recreational fisherman I think they will skew the data to fit their agenda whether you report or not. If you don't report they go with assumptions and assume the worst(high catch rates). If you report that you did well they assume everyone else who holds a license did as well, which would lead to shorter seasons. If you say you didn't catch anything they will assume that there are no fish left to catch and reduce catch limits. I just don't trust the fisheries regulators in any way shape or form and I don't think I'm alone in my lack of confidence in fishery management. If I had confidence I'd be all for reporting.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:13 AM
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The scientists dont have a political agenda. They are doing the best job they can with the tools they are allowed to have.

Im not even sure the fishery councils have political agendas. They do very definitely have financial agendas. When council members can own fishing fleets, yhe conflicts ate blatent.

Bit it is a very real impact when rec landings appear low and commercial is high. They will reduce the rec allocation.

Use it or lose it. Swordfish are a perfect example.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:41 AM
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slper - This might be the most ignorant reply I have ever read on this site. NOAA Fisheries stock assessments use state of the art techniques and have the best fisheries scientists in the nation (if not the world) working them. THEN much of what they produce is peer reviewed by all of the other fisheries experts out there (at universities and other institutions of higher learning that you likely drive by but never spent any time in). I know this because I did several legs on the NOAA Fisheries Survey Trawl as a volunteer and then took Stock Assessment as a class at Woods Hole. You are the other kind of guy that bitches but really has no clue. Lastly, NOAA Fisheries scientists report on a stock and guess what happens? The lobbyists and other powers that be lean on government officials and the years of work on a stock assessment are completely ignored. So what you envision is 100% wrong.
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