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Unlicensed Charters/ What exactly is it?

Old 06-10-2019, 10:49 AM
  #81  
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I think after reading through this there are two sides:

1) The guys running illegal charters, for profit, without a license and appropriate safety gear.

2) The "everyday Joes" or "weekend warriors" splitting costs for the trip.

#1 is obviously wrong. The problem is they're sucking a bunch of #2's in there. The fact that they're targeting the folks who are everyday Joes looking to have fun with their buddies is just a load of BS. It's going to come down to someone with a whole lot of money (owner of a 60'+ sportfish) who fun fishes with buddies to get rubbed the wrong way and file a lawsuit.

With us, at the end of the trip, we split it per person including owners (myself). So if the fuel bill is $1000 and there's 6 of us? We just call it $160 a person. Some guys bring bait, food, tackle, etc. It's a great time. The government going after this sort of thing is a bunch of nonsense. I also happen to have everything needed to charter: license, safety gear, etc. Still bothers me.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:06 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Re-Bait View Post
Seeing I have 2200 posts here and 9000 over at bass barn, anyone who really cared could look and see 18 years of posts with zero request for riders.

Plus, I keep logs. Every rider is notated. All are friends. If anyone ever formally asked 100% of those rides would attest to adherence to the laws. Do you keep those records? Most don't. I do
you keep logs of who went on what trip? and your all friends? seems pretty odd!
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:07 AM
  #83  
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Here is some that may be unlicensed charters. All listed as "Boat Rentals" but in the description, it says "Captain Included".....
USCG could simply book these "Chaters" and show up, board, push away from dock, and immediately proceed to inspect.

https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...902840573.html
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...899035336.html
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...904911988.html
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...893549074.html
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...904459164.html
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:27 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by bayrunner16 View Post
Ah, after reading the Coast Guard guys explanation above, I find it odd that you have to have rude guests to be legal.

""If you invite people to come along and tell them they will be expected to share expenses, that's not legal. If I send the OP a private message telling him I'll be happy to share actual expenses if he'll let me come along, that's legal.""

Do you really send folks messages asking to come along with them and you'll pay their gas? That is beyond odd.

I never let folks that self invite anywhere near my boat. I make sure to tell them all about my trip afterwards though.
If you invite someone along and they offer to give you money you are fine. If you ask them to come along and ask for money to cover expenses you are not. That's pretty clear cut.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by NJBoatingCollege View Post
[



are you turning a profit. ... share expenses is not for hire. Especially people you know. You are not holding yourself as "for hire" dokng that. Simply put you're not holding yourself out at all..

besides a USCG license the boat has to be commercial ready like all class 1 PFDs. VHF radios. Etc. CPR trained.

QUOTE=flfJack;12589961]the difference in my eyes is marketing. if a friend gives me $50 towards fuel and bait i don’t think I’m doing anything wrong. However if I say on Instagram or Facebook or anywhere else that I’m willing to take people out for $50 then I’m breaking the law.
[/QUOTE]

If you follow the one guy's thread on the boating forum he adds in every little dollar that goes in to his boat (cleaning, electric, etc) and figures he needs reimbursed for all of it. Other guy invites a buddy and then thinks the buddy should automatically pay to go out with him after he was invited.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:35 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by davepjr71 View Post
If you invite someone along and they offer to give you money you are fine. If you ask them to come along and ask for money to cover expenses you are not. That's pretty clear cut.
I disagree with this statement and I'm sure plenty of others do too. I invite people all the time and tell them to bring gas money/bait/beer/food, etc. CALL THE USCG on me!!!!!!
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:18 PM
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Hi everyone,
Please take a look at this “Charter Operation” brochure put out by USCG Sector Miami.

The definition of “Consideration” might help clear up the sharing expenses question.
Hope this helps!

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Old 06-11-2019, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolandt03 View Post
you keep logs of who went on what trip? and your all friends? seems pretty odd!
I do as well. Nothing odd about keeping a log. I can go back 5 years and tell you who fished with me, where and what we caught on what bait. In addition I could tell you how much fuel we burnt as well. I have had the same log on many boats over the past decade. Record keeping isn't a bad thing: All good captains do it.
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Old 06-11-2019, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolandt03 View Post
you keep logs of who went on what trip? and your all friends? seems pretty odd!

What's odd about that? I keep logs. I use spiral notebooks of 5x8 index cards which hold up well in marine envioremnts. On there I record
date
engine hours
hours of engine burn per tank...estimated fuel burn
dep/arr times
who's on boat
what we catch/what it was caught on
conditions/tide
where caught/waypoint name number
Any maintenance preformed or needed

So as I said I've got proof I'm not a charter. What others do is none of my concern.
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Old 06-11-2019, 05:36 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by JoseG View Post
Here is some that may be unlicensed charters. All listed as "Boat Rentals" but in the description, it says "Captain Included".....
USCG could simply book these "Chaters" and show up, board, push away from dock, and immediately proceed to inspect.

https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...902840573.html
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...899035336.html
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...904911988.html
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...893549074.html
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...904459164.html
Fairly sure I can find something legally wrong with every add listed. Am also absolutely sure that USCG sector Miami has been picking these types off on a regular basis.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:00 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Halibutt View Post
Hi everyone,
Please take a look at this “Charter Operation” brochure put out by USCG Sector Miami.

The definition of “Consideration” might help clear up the sharing expenses question.
Hope this helps!


That brochure can be a little confusing because it talks about boat charters (aka renting the boat out), not just oupv crew charters. That's why it says there is a 12 person max for un-inspected vessels. Not innacurrate, just confusing if you don't catch the context switch.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:37 AM
  #92  
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This brings up an interesting question. I've seen boats listed like apartments on airbnb. They never leave the dock, but they are very much rented out. Reading the cg regs for chartered boats, it doesn't seem to matter if they leave the dock or not.

So are these illegal boat charters?
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:11 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Re-Bait View Post
What's odd about that? I keep logs. I use spiral notebooks of 5x8 index cards which hold up well in marine envioremnts. On there I record
date
engine hours
hours of engine burn per tank...estimated fuel burn
dep/arr times
who's on boat
what we catch/what it was caught on
conditions/tide
where caught/waypoint name number
Any maintenance preformed or needed

So as I said I've got proof I'm not a charter. What others do is none of my concern.

i understand tracking what you caught and where, but life is too short to keep track of al that other BS! im there to have fun not work! dont really care about engine hours and fuel burn, that is what gauges are for! and im not that paranoid about being labeled as a non licensed charter
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:19 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by gerg View Post
... They never leave the dock ...
... and hence, they're not passengers. They, like hotel guests, are boarders.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:29 AM
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The 12 person maximum applies to uninspected vessels over 100 GT. 6 passengers max for uninspected vessels under 100 GT.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Halibutt View Post
The 12 person maximum applies to uninspected vessels over 100 GT. 6 passengers max for uninspected vessels under 100 GT.

Yep, And you better have better than an OUPV license.

Go back and look at the 5 Craigslist charters in post 83.

Prime example of the BS going on.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolandt03 View Post
i understand tracking what you caught and where, but life is too short to keep track of al that other BS! im there to have fun not work! dont really care about engine hours and fuel burn, that is what gauges are for! and im not that paranoid about being labeled as a non licensed charter
You got to realize the Op is in NJ. There are no fish to catch in Nj but stripers and fluke. You can fit all that info on a postage stamp. Down here in Florida some days we catch over 15 species. Trying to remember all that and write it all down would take an hour and a much bigger page.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Jus Teasin View Post
Do you include yourself in the split number as one of the fisherman?
I do.

Everyone picks something up for the trip. Food, booze, bait, Ice, etc. Boat gets filled up on return. Everyone pulls out receipts, and we settle up.

If that's wrong, then I really don't care.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by barrell View Post
You got to realize the Op is in NJ. There are no fish to catch in Nj but stripers and fluke. You can fit all that info on a postage stamp. Down here in Florida some days we catch over 15 species. Trying to remember all that and write it all down would take an hour and a much bigger page.
I lived in Florida from 74 to 83 and caught more fish in that window fishing Bimini than you will in your life barrel! And seeing I don't fluke fish I'd call that a swing and a miss. Besides how many bluefin yellow fin and big eyes do you personally catch??
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:44 PM
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didn't read all posts skipped to last page & find it humorous. if one is confused about the difference between a for hire charter boat & some friends going fun fishing on a recreational boat & splitting expenses. perhaps some grey area is I do know of some folks that have a (BOGUS) charter buisness. they have a 6 pack captains liscens buisness name buisness checking account buisness tax id # & (EVERYTHING) that has to do with the truck trailer boat & fishing is a tax write off but they've never taken the first paying customer fishing they make deposits into the account as charters & then fish off of it but its all bogus. they are recreational fisherman getting over on the system
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