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Unlicensed Charters/ What exactly is it?

Old 06-03-2019, 03:45 PM
  #21  
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I wouldnt accuse the op of wanting to illegally charter.

Id accuse him of being a licensed charter captain and stirring shite.

This comes up year after year, and its always butt hurt charter captains who start it.

Point of fact: cost sharing is explicitly allowed under uscg policies.

Of course there are grey areas and cases where someone blatently crosses all the lines.

But the shear number of legitimately shared trips dwarfes the pirate operations.

Yet the Business owners see it as unfair competition.

I always viewed it as quite the opposite. That helping people to get out and fish affordably helps the charter indusyry. I still charter, and most of the people i fish with do also. Many of us got into this bad habit fishing with others.

So bust the few pirates out there, but leave the coat sharing social media friendly folk alone.

Just imho of course.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:02 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by oceanelectric1 View Post
Trollin?

yup.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:45 PM
  #23  
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Federal law (Title 46 U.S. Code, sec. 2101) defines a passenger for hire as “a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.” The statute further defines “consideration” as “an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.”

Voluntary sharing of actual expenses is the operative part of the law as it relates to most of our discussions. If you invite people to come along and tell them they will be expected to share expenses, that's not legal. If I send the OP a private message telling him I'll be happy to share actual expenses if he'll let me come along, that's legal.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:55 PM
  #24  
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What about say a donation of $150
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:59 PM
  #25  
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What I cut and paste was from this month's RECREATIONAL Fisherman. Seemed very brief and non specific. I was hoping for some more specific enlightenment. Evidently I'm not getting it here. And dude I don't hold a captains license. Take your pathetic pov and shove it.
And I find it hysterical that "mikie" can't! won't answer a very simple question I asked. After going out on a limb and calling me a liar.

Last edited by Re-Bait; 06-03-2019 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:20 PM
  #26  
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Thanks USCG!
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:36 PM
  #27  
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Well boy, you're the one who needs to take a little class on reading comprehension. I didn't accuse YOU of anything. I used caps to highlight the main points of my reply. If you carefully review my post, you will find I told you EXACTLY the same thing the CG guy told you.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by USCG Safe Boating D8 View Post
Federal law (Title 46 U.S. Code, sec. 2101) defines a passenger for hire as “a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.” The statute further defines “consideration” as “an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.”

Voluntary sharing of actual expenses is the operative part of the law as it relates to most of our discussions. If you invite people to come along and tell them they will be expected to share expenses, that's not legal. If I send the OP a private message telling him I'll be happy to share actual expenses if he'll let me come along, that's legal.
Thanks for replying. That’s what I thought was the law but didn’t know for sure.
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:53 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Re-Bait View Post
A. I never have and never will EVER be close to this rule. My ride is strictly PRIVATEER!
If you are acting as a privateer in the US, then the USCG will be the least of your worries. You may have the grey ships paying you a visit.


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Old 06-03-2019, 09:56 PM
  #30  
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So am I an illegal charter if I have an "Cash, Gas, Grass or Ass --- Nobody rides for free" placard on my boat?

Or is only illegal if I take said cash, gas, grass, or ass?
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:00 PM
  #31  
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Ah, after reading the Coast Guard guys explanation above, I find it odd that you have to have rude guests to be legal.

""If you invite people to come along and tell them they will be expected to share expenses, that's not legal. If I send the OP a private message telling him I'll be happy to share actual expenses if he'll let me come along, that's legal.""

Do you really send folks messages asking to come along with them and you'll pay their gas? That is beyond odd.

I never let folks that self invite anywhere near my boat. I make sure to tell them all about my trip afterwards though.
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:48 AM
  #32  
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This makes me glad that I don't own any boats...... or have any friends.... or know where there's any water.....
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:24 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by bayrunner16 View Post
Do you really send folks messages asking to come along with them and you'll pay their gas? That is beyond odd.
No I have NEVER EVER done that. This is getting really comical. Here's the link I got

Fishing News | USCG TO CRACK DOWN ON ILLEGAL CHARTERS - The Fisherman Magazine

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Old 06-04-2019, 05:24 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Re-Bait View Post
We have had guys sphere 'promote' that they are just looking for people (strangers) to split expenses.

When they add in dock, tackle, insurance, depreciation, etc to me that's clearly a violation of what I know of the rules.
Has someone read anyone's post including these? Have a link as I'd love to see what someone asks for when it come to splitting insurance and depreciation costs?
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:42 AM
  #35  
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A simple search on this topic and you will see that this topic has been beat to death many times.

In the end you will also see that it is legal to share expenses.

You will also see that it is not legal to solicit on social media or anywhere a cost to be shared to cover expenses.

The USCG is cracking down on this in many areas. It's becoming a big problem and several deaths and injuries have occurred recently on vessels operating illegally in Florida.

You simply can not ask for a set amount of money/compensation up front no matter what you want to call it.

As mentioned here the WMO boats can not solicit anything legally to fish the tournament if the boat is not being operated as a legal charter boat.

If they do and someone gets wind of it they will be breaking the law which would then mean they are breaking the WMO tournament rules. That is known as a DQ.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:15 AM
  #36  
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That's a thoughtful answer thank you.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:34 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by bayrunner16 View Post
Ah, after reading the Coast Guard guys explanation above, I find it odd that you have to have rude guests to be legal.

""If you invite people to come along and tell them they will be expected to share expenses, that's not legal. If I send the OP a private message telling him I'll be happy to share actual expenses if he'll let me come along, that's legal.""

Do you really send folks messages asking to come along with them and you'll pay their gas? That is beyond odd.

I never let folks that self invite anywhere near my boat. I make sure to tell them all about my trip afterwards though.
I thought it would be obvious that I was providing an example of the difference between a boat owner laying out an expectation that others will contribute to expense sharing and how someone might voluntarily do so. Based on my experience with this forum and others, it's not uncommon for boat owners to announce to other forum members that they have room for another angler. The angler then sends a PM saying they'll happily share expenses.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:03 AM
  #38  
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Seeing I have 2200 posts here and 9000 over at bass barn, anyone who really cared could look and see 18 years of posts with zero request for riders.

Plus, I keep logs. Every rider is notated. All are friends. If anyone ever formally asked 100% of those rides would attest to adherence to the laws. Do you keep those records? Most don't. I do
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Last edited by Re-Bait; 06-04-2019 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:13 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by USCG Safe Boating D8 View Post
I thought it would be obvious that I was providing an example of the difference between a boat owner laying out an expectation that others will contribute to expense sharing and how someone might voluntarily do so. Based on my experience with this forum and others, it's not uncommon for boat owners to announce to other forum members that they have room for another angler. The angler then sends a PM saying they'll happily share expenses.

I understood, just thought it was a funny explanation.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me.

It is my boat. The expenses of my boat are my concern.

If I take someone out I refuse to take gas money. It seems tacky and cheap to me.

If you and your wife go out to dinner and pick up a couple on the way to have to dinner with you, do you ask for half the gas to the restaurant? Some money for oil usage or tire wear?

I guess you can't ask as then you would be considered a taxi cab for hire. Maybe they'll offer I guess. Odd either way to me.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mikie View Post
If ANY type of payment, whether it's cash or sharing expenses or anything else, is REQUIRED for the people to get on your boat, YOU ARE CHARTERING. Get the required credentials, equipment, insurance, etc. and be legal to avoid any problems. When one of the drunks falls down and slices his leg open, bleeding all over the deck and sues you, you will be glad you took the time to comply.
They still making Privateers?
You are factually incorrect and not even logical. If I take my neighbors child out for a boat ride and he falls down and slices his leg open, bleeding all over the deck and sues me, that has nothing to do with money changing hands. That's why we carry liability insurance even for recreational fishing.
For a boat owner taking 4 guys fishing and splitting the fuel 4 or 5 ways is nowhere close to the definition of chartering. And yes, I REQUIRE anyone fishing on my boat to pitch in for fuel ( except their 1st time fishing w/ me, then it's my treat). If someone refuses to assist in fuel cost, they don't get invited again.
This happened to me in a fishing tournament 3 years ago. 4 guys on my boat. We all pay our share of the tournament entry fee. One dude leaves at the end of the day w/ out paying for fuel. I see him around. I see his facebook posts of his fishing: every time I see him, I think to myself "dude still owes me $80 for the fuel on that tourney day". I have never asked him for a dollar since that day. But, he won't fish w/ me again.
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