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Express vs sportfish

Old 05-13-2019, 01:39 PM
  #41  
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Is that the Osprey? I’ve admired it online for a while now.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:41 PM
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Yes she is in Barnegat NJ for the summer
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:58 PM
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Guys, my boat is a Stamas. I definitely considered the SeaVee and the Pursuit. I love Sea Vees, but the backlog is too long for me, and Sea Vee doesn't make a 39 Express. The 43 Sea Vee, which is an incredibly amazing boat, is also too pricey for my pocketbook. The Pursuit Offshore 385 is another wonderful boat that I seriously considered. I would have probably pulled the trigger but the dealers I was speaking with wouldn't give me a good enough deal on the trade. I also looked at the Intrepids, but they were too pricey, and I wasn't a big fan of their interiors. They also had a pretty long lead time. Somehow I came across that old standby Stamas. I've always known Stamas as an old line solid heavy dependable boat, but I never considered buying one. Then I checked on the website and saw that Stamas has become essentially a factory direct operation (though it uses outside retailers as agents and to handle trade-ins. I don't know exactly how the arrangement works. But I called and was given a very good price for the trade. John also had a 390 that was underway and not yet sold and still had time to be customized. My wife and I flew down from NY and my son drove up from Miami and we took a test ride on a customer's boat in Port St. Lucie a couple of days after a hurricane had passed offshore, leaving a huge gentle swell offshore. That sea trial sold us on the boat, along with our visit to the factory the next day where we met with John Stamas and saw the personal attention he gave to each boat under construction.

What you get with the Stamas is a very solid, sea kindly boat at a price that's probably $200,000 less than the competition, maybe even a little more. You also get to deal with a family run company that's been around for more than 60 years, so when there's an issue, John takes it personally. I've had plenty of boats in my life, and at this stage, I like dealing personally with the builder. This boat has already travelled thousands of miles at sea from the west coast of Florida all the way to Block Island, RI, and fishes the NE canyons regularly, and crosses to Bimini all winter. It has proven its blue water capability. It's very comfortable to live on -- I've probably spent 90 nights aboard over the past year. Would I like the speed and fuel efficiency of my last boat - a 38 Fountain with diesel sterndrives? Sure, but not all the mechanical problems and repairs. This Stamas is proving to be an excellent compromise boat at a very reasonable price.
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jillybird View Post
Guys, my boat is a Stamas. I definitely considered the SeaVee and the Pursuit. I love Sea Vees, but the backlog is too long for me, and Sea Vee doesn't make a 39 Express. The 43 Sea Vee, which is an incredibly amazing boat, is also too pricey for my pocketbook. The Pursuit Offshore 385 is another wonderful boat that I seriously considered. I would have probably pulled the trigger but the dealers I was speaking with wouldn't give me a good enough deal on the trade. I also looked at the Intrepids, but they were too pricey, and I wasn't a big fan of their interiors. They also had a pretty long lead time. Somehow I came across that old standby Stamas. I've always known Stamas as an old line solid heavy dependable boat, but I never considered buying one. Then I checked on the website and saw that Stamas has become essentially a factory direct operation (though it uses outside retailers as agents and to handle trade-ins. I don't know exactly how the arrangement works. But I called and was given a very good price for the trade. John also had a 390 that was underway and not yet sold and still had time to be customized. My wife and I flew down from NY and my son drove up from Miami and we took a test ride on a customer's boat in Port St. Lucie a couple of days after a hurricane had passed offshore, leaving a huge gentle swell offshore. That sea trial sold us on the boat, along with our visit to the factory the next day where we met with John Stamas and saw the personal attention he gave to each boat under construction.

What you get with the Stamas is a very solid, sea kindly boat at a price that's probably $200,000 less than the competition, maybe even a little more. You also get to deal with a family run company that's been around for more than 60 years, so when there's an issue, John takes it personally. I've had plenty of boats in my life, and at this stage, I like dealing personally with the builder. This boat has already travelled thousands of miles at sea from the west coast of Florida all the way to Block Island, RI, and fishes the NE canyons regularly, and crosses to Bimini all winter. It has proven its blue water capability. It's very comfortable to live on -- I've probably spent 90 nights aboard over the past year. Would I like the speed and fuel efficiency of my last boat - a 38 Fountain with diesel sterndrives? Sure, but not all the mechanical problems and repairs. This Stamas is proving to be an excellent compromise boat at a very reasonable price.
JP Stamas has booked a few charters with me over the years. They have always built a solid heavy boat. They have been around a long time as a family owned business. As I said earlier, it all depends on how you use your boat. There are pros and cons between the Express and the Convertible.
I will take the convertible all day for traveling. Day trips of less than 50 miles each way with a small crew the express shines and works for a few nights on the hook if you so desire. I have owned my Rampage for 15 years as it fits my needs. Going forward and below underway or on the hook offshore not so much but I have plenty of times. I sleep like a baby on it tied to a dock.

There may be a reason the express style boats under 40 feet aren't exactly setting the market on fire. Albermarle, Carolina Classic, Cabo and a few others come to mind. And, they were great boats IMHO. A few times on boats like these Below with the galley up and that big salon for long runs makes that bow forward dungeon not so appealing.

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Old 05-14-2019, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jillybird View Post
Guys, my boat is a Stamas. I definitely considered the SeaVee and the Pursuit. I love Sea Vees, but the backlog is too long for me, and Sea Vee doesn't make a 39 Express. The 43 Sea Vee, which is an incredibly amazing boat, is also too pricey for my pocketbook. The Pursuit Offshore 385 is another wonderful boat that I seriously considered. I would have probably pulled the trigger but the dealers I was speaking with wouldn't give me a good enough deal on the trade. I also looked at the Intrepids, but they were too pricey, and I wasn't a big fan of their interiors. They also had a pretty long lead time. Somehow I came across that old standby Stamas. I've always known Stamas as an old line solid heavy dependable boat, but I never considered buying one. Then I checked on the website and saw that Stamas has become essentially a factory direct operation (though it uses outside retailers as agents and to handle trade-ins. I don't know exactly how the arrangement works. But I called and was given a very good price for the trade. John also had a 390 that was underway and not yet sold and still had time to be customized. My wife and I flew down from NY and my son drove up from Miami and we took a test ride on a customer's boat in Port St. Lucie a couple of days after a hurricane had passed offshore, leaving a huge gentle swell offshore. That sea trial sold us on the boat, along with our visit to the factory the next day where we met with John Stamas and saw the personal attention he gave to each boat under construction.

What you get with the Stamas is a very solid, sea kindly boat at a price that's probably $200,000 less than the competition, maybe even a little more. You also get to deal with a family run company that's been around for more than 60 years, so when there's an issue, John takes it personally. I've had plenty of boats in my life, and at this stage, I like dealing personally with the builder. This boat has already travelled thousands of miles at sea from the west coast of Florida all the way to Block Island, RI, and fishes the NE canyons regularly, and crosses to Bimini all winter. It has proven its blue water capability. It's very comfortable to live on -- I've probably spent 90 nights aboard over the past year. Would I like the speed and fuel efficiency of my last boat - a 38 Fountain with diesel sterndrives? Sure, but not all the mechanical problems and repairs. This Stamas is proving to be an excellent compromise boat at a very reasonable price.
Thanks for taking the time.Your boat definitely checks a lot of the boxes for fall,winter and spring fishing in S. Florida.Good stuff.
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:16 AM
  #46  
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I don't get the comments about the bow forwards coffin. I have bunks down forward. On canyon runs there are people sleeping like babies in all sea conditions. They are very comfortable. Nobody has gotten sea sick or nautious to the point where they prefer to be in the main cabin.

In fact, they are too comfortable at times when I need crew to spell me or man the deck.
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jillybird View Post
Every boat is a compromise. Here's mine - a 2018 Stamas 390 Aegean that I had built for me last year. I keep the boat in Key Biscayne from November to end of May and then run it up the coast to New York for the summer. This year the boat will be in Montauk. The boat has good speed, excellent range, decent fuel economy, and fishes very well. It's an excellent boat for the NE canyons, and very comfortable for my wife and I to stay on when we go down to Key Biscayne for several days every two weeks or so over the winter. It's terrific for those runs over to Bimini.



awesome boat man.
dumb question: what's the pos/neg of having outboards vs diesel inboards in a boat that size?
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bonecrusher1 View Post
awesome boat man.
dumb question: what's the pos/neg of having outboards vs diesel inboards in a boat that size?
Displacement. The outboard powered boats are built lighter. The dry weight of the 39 above is 14,000 pounds, a new 41 Cabo is 31,000 dry. My 36 Bertram with half fuel is weighing in at over 26,000. To some that's a negative and to some that is a positive.
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:50 AM
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Other factors: Both soak you about $90k for engines.

Diesels: Clear transom for fighting fish. Longer engine life. Diesels can raise fish better, and have a cleaner wake. Lower cog, better balance of weight for/aft. Uses a safer fuel, cheaper also. Twin diesels more maneuverable (though those auto controls on some ob models are pretty sick).

Outboards: Faster. Easy maintenance (but arguably shorter life). If one engine fails, can you replace just that one, or do you end up replacing all three? Quieter. More below deck storage.
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by WavRidr359 View Post
Displacement. The outboard powered boats are built lighter. The dry weight of the 39 above is 14,000 pounds, a new 41 Cabo is 31,000 dry. My 36 Bertram with half fuel is weighing in at over 26,000. To some that's a negative and to some that is a positive.
Also.. Less draft.In S Florida,Bahamas,Keys this is a definite bonus.Lots of shallow areas, canals,sand bars ect..Also a bit less maintenance.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:33 AM
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As I said at the outset, everything in boating is a compromise. Here's why I went with triple outboards versus diesels on my new Stamas. My prior boat was a 38 Fountain with twin diesel Bravo III outdrives. The boat had fantastic range -- 600 miles at a 42 mph cruise speed. But it was a maintenance nightmare. Despite being designed for diesels, the Bravo IIIs simply couldn't handle the torque of the 320 hp QSD 4.2 engines. The upper and lower units of the drives had no longevity, and I had to go through several sets of drives in the 11 years I owned the vessel after putting 2,000 hours on the engines. Sterndrives are simply awful in a saltwater environment. Even though I lift stored the boat, the bellows would leak every year or two and the U-joiints would get rusty. Working on the engines was very difficult given the limited space in the engine room. And these engines in particular had servicing problems, especially at the beginning because they were VM Motori engines from Italy which Cummins and Mercury merely relabeled and sold under their Cummins Mercruiser label as part of a short-lived and ill-fated joint venture. So when that power plant worked, it was spectacular, but it had so many problems over time that I was very happy to get out of it. My prior powerboat was a 290 Sea Ray Amberjack which had straignt Mercruiser gas inboards. Maintenance on those engines too was a bitch given how jammed the engine compartment was. So I had had enough of expensive, difficult maintenance with inboards, and wanted the simplicity and reliability of the great Yamaha 300s together with Yamaha's 6 year warranty.

I knew the trade-offs -- especially the lesser fuel efficiency and clutter of the engines at the transom. They are certainly major factors to consider, especially given how many hours we run the boat and our long distance runs. And as a result, while in Florida, I tend to go out on my son's charter boat -- a 31 Contender -- for fishing a lot more than on mine which is five slips away.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jillybird View Post
As I said at the outset, everything in boating is a compromise. Here's why I went with triple outboards versus diesels on my new Stamas. My prior boat was a 38 Fountain with twin diesel Bravo III outdrives. The boat had fantastic range -- 600 miles at a 42 mph cruise speed. But it was a maintenance nightmare. Despite being designed for diesels, the Bravo IIIs simply couldn't handle the torque of the 320 hp QSD 4.2 engines. The upper and lower units of the drives had no longevity, and I had to go through several sets of drives in the 11 years I owned the vessel after putting 2,000 hours on the engines. Sterndrives are simply awful in a saltwater environment. Even though I lift stored the boat, the bellows would leak every year or two and the U-joiints would get rusty. Working on the engines was very difficult given the limited space in the engine room. And these engines in particular had servicing problems, especially at the beginning because they were VM Motori engines from Italy which Cummins and Mercury merely relabeled and sold under their Cummins Mercruiser label as part of a short-lived and ill-fated joint venture. So when that power plant worked, it was spectacular, but it had so many problems over time that I was very happy to get out of it. My prior powerboat was a 290 Sea Ray Amberjack which had straignt Mercruiser gas inboards. Maintenance on those engines too was a bitch given how jammed the engine compartment was. So I had had enough of expensive, difficult maintenance with inboards, and wanted the simplicity and reliability of the great Yamaha 300s together with Yamaha's 6 year warranty.

I knew the trade-offs -- especially the lesser fuel efficiency and clutter of the engines at the transom. They are certainly major factors to consider, especially given how many hours we run the boat and our long distance runs. And as a result, while in Florida, I tend to go out on my son's charter boat -- a 31 Contender -- for fishing a lot more than on mine which is five slips away.
So, everything else being relative, what would you estimate the % difference is in what you spent for fuel, maintenance, etc with your inboard diesels vs your 300 Yams? I know that the headache factor with constant repair/replacement is also part of the equation.
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:23 PM
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I hear ya but for me fishing over and around outboards is not enjoyable. seems like outboards are as much maintenance as diesels, but i do my own diesel work so that might change things alittle. good friend of mine has had some or should i say alot of trouble with his Yamaha outboards and they are only a few years old, and another has exhaust erosion problems with his older ones,but we can leave that for another post, this express vs conv, has been enjoyable, and their have been some really super looking rigs in these pictures,
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Old 05-14-2019, 03:52 PM
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Working on outboards you drop a tool it does swimming, drop it working on diesels and you hopefully will get it back, or's it's lost in the bilge until you pull an engine.
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:14 PM
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This actually looks like a deal compared to the market
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...nced%20listing

Hatteras is making one too
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...ridge-3135527/
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:56 PM
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Bonecrusher, the fuel seems to be about 80 percent more expensive. Oil and gear lube changes every hundred hours require a short haul so the total cost for that is about $2k compared with about $1,300 for the Fountain. But for 6 years I'll have full warranty coverage on the outboards. And I've had the Yamaha 300s on two other boats and they are terrific. Plus, you can always find Yamaha mechanics and parts nearly every place I go. So you can pretty much get up and running within a day or two for most engine problems. With those VM Motori engines, I had a stud on a valve that broke. It was a two week repair that required tearing down half the engine, and Cummins Mercruiser had no replacement part in the US and VM Motori was closed in Italy because it was August. Cummins Mercruiser wound up stripping down one of its in stock engines to get the stupid stud. That kind of crap happened all the time. After the warranty ran out, replacing the Bravo IIIs every two or three years became very expensive. Fixing anything on the engines was a production because the mechanic had to lie on top of the engines under the partially raised deck of the boat and work from that position. On my Amberjack, I once needed two mechanics -- one to hold the other mechanic's legs while he worked upside down in the engine compartment. You get the picture.

I do agree that fishing around the outboards is a PIA. Again, there are trade offs.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:30 AM
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Never buy a diesel boat where you cant't get to parts of the engine. On smaller faster boats they just cram them in with zero regard to access. Any engine at that point will become a nightmare. And the QSD was a particularly bad model. Base engine not so bad, but no support from a crappy alliance.

When I set up my lower station boat, I went with a single 450C Cummins. Can crawl around all sides of the engine easily. A larger center hatch under the pilothouse carpet can come up can come up by rolling up the carpet, then the top is right there. Hatch and salon door are big enough for engine to be boomed out, only a couple things need to come off to do it (HX, alt, exhaust mixer). All maintenance can be done through a little hatch fwd of engine.

I designed it that way after years of dealing with shoe-horned engines. Not for me.

I might not cruise at 30kts like the faster boats with crammed engines (tops out at near 30, cruise 18-22), but I do pass them when they are at the repair dock!!
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by gerg View Post
I don't get the comments about the bow forwards coffin. I have bunks down forward. On canyon runs there are people sleeping like babies in all sea conditions. They are very comfortable. Nobody has gotten sea sick or nautious to the point where they prefer to be in the main cabin.

In fact, they are too comfortable at times when I need crew to spell me or man the deck.
A lot of express boats cruise at 27 plus knots. Like any other boat at that speed you don't want to be near the bow. It is also dangerous to move around as most express boats you can't see out to anticipate a large wake or wave. This ain't about sea sick, it's about getting the crap beat out of ya.

I have pilled my head into the microwave more than once with my mate running the boat in flat calm water. I didn't see that wake coming while I was making that sandwich.

If I need to rest I will fold out the couch and lay on it. It's as far from the bow as I can get.. Don't get me wrong as I have owned mine for 15 years. I only make one or two 300 mile runs a year. That is when I miss having the salon couch that is at deck level and behind midships. I don't take rest forward on the Bayliss I showed. It ain't fun to be in the bow of that boat at 40 knots either.

Like I said before it really depends on how each person uses their boat. 90% of the time I like my express just fine.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 20biminitwist View Post
A lot of express boats cruise at 27 plus knots. Like any other boat at that speed you don't want to be near the bow. It is also dangerous to move around as most express boats you can't see out to anticipate a large wake or wave. This ain't about sea sick, it's about getting the crap beat out of ya.

I have pilled my head into the microwave more than once with my mate running the boat in flat calm water. I didn't see that wake coming while I was making that sandwich.

If I need to rest I will fold out the couch and lay on it. It's as far from the bow as I can get.. Don't get me wrong as I have owned mine for 15 years. I only make one or two 300 mile runs a year. That is when I miss having the salon couch that is at deck level and behind midships. I don't take rest forward on the Bayliss I showed. It ain't fun to be in the bow of that boat at 40 knots either.

Like I said before it really depends on how each person uses their boat. 90% of the time I like my express just fine.
Ahh, I get it now. I have a downeast wich is more of a submarine than a boat. People say they ride "in" the water rather than "on top" of it. Very smooth ride, even is chop and large seas. But even so, anything above waist height will still find its own level if its rough out. Just no trips from bunk to ceiling.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:02 AM
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Corndog is correct. Access for repairs is a critical but often overlooked factor when buying a boat. On my Fountain, remarkably, the bilge pumps were installed so far under the engines that they could not be replaced until the engines were removed from the boat. That was about the dumbest design I've ever seen, and I discovered that, of course, when one of the bilge pumps failed. "Fortunately," when one of the engines had to be repaired, we replaced both bilge pumps and mounted each on a sliding bracket so that the next time a bilge pump went out, an engine removal was not necessary. Unbelievable. As for the QSD engines, once the supply network was established in this country -- and eventually Mercury Diesel took over entirely -- it became very easy to get parts through the Mercruiser parts system. Before that, it was impossible. The QSD is actually a descendant of the BMW marine diesel engine which then was picked up by VM Motori, a long-established Italian diesel engine manufacturer.

ALWAYS consider access for repair when buying a boat because eventually everything will have to be repaired. On my Stamas, the entire aft cockpit lifts up with an electrically actuated lift and the access is insane. For instance, the fuel tanks could be replaced without ever cutting into the deck, and the below deck storage is vast. On many boats, to replace the fuel tanks, you have to cut up the whole deck or even get into the cabin. Think about things like this. I've learned through the school of hard knocks, lol.
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