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FYI ...Learning about Transducers..and How They work

Old 10-08-2014, 08:01 PM
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Default FYI ...Learning about Transducers..and How They work

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PM me here on THT
Gil Travis 1-800-925-0341

travis.g@sbcglobal.net for Sales and technical support


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Anyone needing information about choosing a transducer feel free to contact me.
I sell and carry the full line of Airmar transducers ...plus most other marine electronics.
PM me here....feel free to post any questions..
1 800-925-0341
travis.g@sbcglobal.net

Below is a bit of transducer background information I have put together.

Gil Travis


..................


TRANSDUCERS……WHAT MAKE THEM TICK.

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First off...
A fishes body is composed of almost 60% water..so when a sonar signal hits the body..most of the signal passes right thru with minimal reflected energy back to the transducer.
Fortunately the gas filled swim bladder being of greater density than water provides a strong reflected signal.
But..this reflected signal now has to fight all the way back up to the boat and have enough energy left to register on the sonar.
That return signal is very, very minimal in energy level as compared to when it was originally fired..thus the need for a super sensitive transducer.

So..the transducer is the eyes and ear of the sonar..

A transducer functions like a speaker and microphone in the same unit.
The main component of the transducer is the polarized piezoceramic element which makes sound and electrical conversion possible.
The transmit pulse generated from the sonar is an AC voltage that activates the piezoceramic element by causing it to expand when a positive voltage is applied and contracting when a negative voltage is present.
This expansion and contraction changes the electrical pulse into sound waves ( Like a speaker) that then travels until they hit an object with greater density than the water…which cause the sound wave to return.
When the echo returns to the transducer (Now like a microphone) the pressure of the sound waves acts on the piezocramic element causing it to expand and then contract as each cycle of the sound wave hits it.
This alternating pressure on the element (or elements) creates a very small voltage which is then sent to the sonar transceiver and microprocessor to be converted into information displayed on the screen such as depth, bottom features and other targets information such as all the fish you are not catching.

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TRANSDUCERS……….QUALITY FACTOR


Q is the transducers quality factor.
Q describes the amount ringing the ceramic element ( piezoceramic ) undergoes when power is applied to the transducer.
Ringing is not a positive because the element should have the ringing dampened out for best results in target separation and bottom imaging.
The lower the Q number the less ringing in the transducer and thus the higher the quality of the unit.
A single element 600 watt transducer may have an average Q of around 25-35, where as the average multi element 1 kw transducer will have a Q of around 6-12.
A CHIRP transducer can have Q as low as 1.5.




LOW FREQUENCY vs HIGH FREQUENCY

The most common recreational frequencies used are 50 and 200 kHz.
The sound wave of a 50 kHz pulse is just over 1.15" in length and thus has a good deal of energy to penetrate deeper…but is less sentive to smaller targets.
The sound wave of a 200 kHz pulse is only about 1/4" in length so it has less energy and has limited depth capability but is very sensitive to smaller targets.
A transducers element design adds greatly to the depth capability also.


Examples:
The rated depth range of a single element Airmar P66 at 50 kHz is 800' to 1,200' while the depth rating of the 200 kHz side is 400' to 700'.
Going to a 8 element Tm260…the 7 element 50 kHz is rated at 1,800' to 2,500' and 700' to 1000' with the single element ( Broadband) 200 kHz.




CONE ANGLE

The radiation pattern of a transducer …or cone angle..is determined by the physical dimension of the piezoceramic element…and the bottom of the "cone" at its widest part is called the beamwidth.
This beamwidth…or the amount of area the transducer can see can be can be changed by the use of piezoceramic element of different diameters.
The larger the element the smaller and more concentrated the the sound wave ..or beam…and the greater the bottom detail and target detection capability.
The smaller the element the wider and less concentrated the sound beam….thus a larger area of coverage but less detection capability.
In a nutshell…the emitted sound wave is strongest in the center of the cone and diminishes as the distance from the center increases.
Many experienced fisherman like to run the sonars in dual screen to take advantage of the modern dual frequency/dual cone transducers…thus seeing the benefits of both cones / freq. at the same time.


TRANSDUCER MODELS (Traditional sonar)
I will cover the CHIRP transducers in another post.


The age old question..often asked and hundred opinions given…."What transducer is best for me?"
As a general starting point…….I will just list some different models.

..............................
[COLOR=&quot][COLOR=&quot]Link to post I made of the CHIRP transducer line up:[/COLOR][/COLOR]

http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-e...p-details.html
........................................


CATEGORIES (600 to 1 kw)

[COLOR=&quot]TRANSOM MOUNT[/COLOR]
P66…Single element 600 watt .
Cone angle of 45 degrees at 50 kHz and 11 degrees at 200 kHz.

TM258…..4 element 1 kw
Cone of 15x21 and 3x 5 …25 times more sensitive at 50 kHz than the P66.

Tm260….8 element 1 kw.
Cone of 19/6 ….50 times more sensitive than the P66.
Tm270W….8 element 1kw …dual 25 degree cones.

[COLOR=&quot]THRU HULL FLUSH MOUNTS ..[/COLOR]
B117….Single element 600 watt
Cone of 45/12 degrees and for boats of 7 degree and less deadrise.

B60…..Single element 600 watt ...tilted element.
Cone of 12/ 45 degrees.
Available in a 12 degree titled element for hulls of 8 to 15 degree deadrise. And a 20 degree tilted for 16 to 24 deadrise.

B164…3 element 1 kw…….tilted element...6 times more sensitive then the B60 at 50 kHz.
Cone of 22x20 / 6x6 degrees and availbe in 0, 12 and 20 degree titled.

SS264N pair…8 element 1 kw tilted element.
Cone of 25/ 6 degrees available in 0, 12 and 20 degree titled.

SS264W pair…8 element tilted.
Cone 25/25 degrees.

[COLOR=&quot]THRU HULL FAIRING MOUNTS.[/COLOR]
B744..single element 600 watt.
Cone 45/12 degrees …with a paddle wheel insert for speed. Available in also a long stem version. 13.73" fairing

B45…single element 600 watt.
Cone 45/12 degrees..13.4" fairing.

B258….4 element same as the Tm258.

B260….8 element same as the TM260.

SS270W …8 element same as the Tm270W

[COLOR=&quot]INHULL ( Shoot thru)[/COLOR]

P79 ..single element 600 watt.
Cone 45/12 degrees.

M260…8 element 1 kw same as the Tm260/B260.



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Last edited by semperfifishing; 10-17-2018 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:21 AM
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Great information.
Is the high speed fairing block on the SS270 the same as the one for the TM260?
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Old 10-09-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by flbluerunner View Post
Great information.
Is the high speed fairing block on the SS270 the same as the one for the TM260?
I think you mean the B260..and the answer is yes.

The B260, SS270, B265C all use the same fairing.

Gil
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Old 10-15-2014, 03:28 PM
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Great info.

So where does my B256 & GDS20 fall into play? sometimes i cant pickup the bottom in over 50ft.
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Old 10-15-2014, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sixmassive View Post
Great info.

So where does my B256 & GDS20 fall into play? sometimes i cant pickup the bottom in over 50ft.
The B256 is a 4 element 1 Kw..very good for its day.,,you should be reading bottom at at least 700'.to 1000'.


50/200 kHz..cone of 3x5 at 200k and 14x 23 at 50 k.

Your unit is about 16 times more sensitive than a single element B60 at 50 kHz.

The B260 for comparison..is 50 times more sensitive.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:15 AM
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Do you have a sticky or thread about proper transom mount transducer position? I have the TM150 connect to my 741xs, and I can not get a consistent bottom picture, especially while running (at any speed). Also, the transducer has a tendency to flip up, that causes an obvious issue.
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Old 10-19-2014, 05:18 PM
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Well, I am experimenting with new positions. I moved it up slightly, and it was reading a lot of noise. I took the wedge out, and moved it back down. I need to get it in the water and try it. Fwiw, before I took the wedge out, the heel was slightly lower than the toe. Thanks for the reply!

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Old 10-21-2014, 03:49 PM
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Do you have a photo?
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by semperfifishing View Post
Do you have a photo?
I am away from home, but I will get you one next week. Thanks for your help!
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Old 10-29-2014, 12:08 PM
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Transducer

Transducer2

Transom4
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Old 10-29-2014, 12:34 PM
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Thats looks really right to me.
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Old 10-29-2014, 12:50 PM
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Well, I haven't run the boat since I took the wedge out. I'm headed out Friday, I will know more after that.
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Old 10-29-2014, 04:50 PM
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Default Transducer / sensor identification

Reading your article.. and thought i would write in and ask of someone can identify this two items / transducers/sensors on my transom, they face rearward..The boat is a 1995 Sea Ray Sundancer 250, the inside wiring in the bilge goes into the factory harnesses, making it hard to trace.. any help or insight would be great. Unless its the factory depth finder, in which i cant figure how that would work facing rearward.

Doug.
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Old 11-01-2014, 05:43 PM
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This is great! Thank you for the concise and easy to understand explanation!
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Old 11-01-2014, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fishpickin View Post
This is great! Thank you for the concise and easy to understand explanation!
You are welcome...appreciation such as yours makes me very happy..

The transducer is the eyes and ears of the sonar..and is normally the weak point in the sonar system when not properly selected..
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Old 11-02-2014, 10:58 AM
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While we're speaking of transducers, I have a Sitex SVS-650 with a B-60 ducer, and I've noticed that it's no longer reading the water temp.
Any suggestions on what I should do??

Also, was wondering where that boat pic on your profile is from--looks like a boat I used to see up on the Homer spit many years ago......
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Old 11-02-2014, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fishpickin View Post
While we're speaking of transducers, I have a Sitex SVS-650 with a B-60 ducer, and I've noticed that it's no longer reading the water temp.
Any suggestions on what I should do??

Also, was wondering where that boat pic on your profile is from--looks like a boat I used to see up on the Homer spit many years ago......
The option it to use a separate temp unit such as an Airmar T 42.

the the boat..it the Nomad....and the one you saw.
Here is the link to the story:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/dockside...ure-photo.html
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:39 AM
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