Notices
Like Tree7Likes
  • 1 Post By capt.gene
  • 1 Post By Belzelbub
  • 1 Post By head_hunter
  • 1 Post By Rolandt03
  • 1 Post By kmoose
  • 1 Post By kmoose
  • 1 Post By Rolandt03

Lineshaft to Freeshaft Gun for SCUBA

Old 08-01-2019, 07:52 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 898
Default Lineshaft to Freeshaft Gun for SCUBA

Hi Guys,

I currently have a Mako 100cm rail gun. I like the gun and will continue to use it but lately when on SCUBA I have had a few situations where my reload time was not great and would like to be able to sling out a second free shaft for a follow up shot or when another fish comes in right away. Mainly dive the east coast FL and the Keys.

Also I like the idea of having a second shaft ready for a follow up shot or in a shark situation.

-which models can you "backload" like I see in some of the commercial guy videos? Is this stock on any gun or aftermarket with a particular maker?
-The other gun I see is a KOAH battle axe that is marketed towards switching between line/free. Any others?

Thanks.
sway21 is offline  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:18 AM
  #2  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Zephyrhills,Fl.USA
Posts: 766
Default

The shark fin shafts can catch a hardened ring with a shooting line crimped to it. I usually free shaft, without carrying a 2nd shaft. The conversion to line shaft takes 2 seconds. I personally do not carry a spare shaft on my gun. The weight and balance is a detriment to my shooting accuracy.
capt.gene is offline  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:32 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 898
Default

Originally Posted by capt.gene View Post
The shark fin shafts can catch a hardened ring with a shooting line crimped to it. I usually free shaft, without carrying a 2nd shaft. The conversion to line shaft takes 2 seconds. I personally do not carry a spare shaft on my gun. The weight and balance is a detriment to my shooting accuracy.
What kind of gun do you use?
sway21 is offline  
Old 08-01-2019, 03:37 PM
  #4  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Zephyrhills,Fl.USA
Posts: 766
Default

A 110 Riffe Euro X with a 10” butt extension dove tailed to lengthen for hip loading. Works for me. I had a lot of guns before this one years ago.
sway21 likes this.
capt.gene is offline  
Old 08-02-2019, 11:39 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Largo, FL
Posts: 1,804
Default

Lots of options for what you are trying to do.

In general, though, a speargun with enclosed track will not permit you to back load. Additionally, it really depends on the muzzle design. A closed muzzle like the older SeaHornet won't let you backload as there just isn't enough clearance to allow the flopper to pass through. Newer Ocean Rhinos, however, will allow this as the hole through the muzzle is large enough for at least a single flopper freeshaft to pass through.

I shoot an Ocean Rhino. I have a newer version and an older version SeaHornet/Ocean Rhino. I don't backload anymore. Couldn't on the older one, and modified my setup on the newer one to allow for quicker changeover from free to line. With the original setup, there were two separate shafts. I'd usually use the freeshaft, but on occasion would find myself wanting to take a shot where a lineshaft would be best. In the original setup, I'd need to unload the freeshaft, and reload with the lineshaft. With the new setup, I redid the line with a ring attached. The shaft is essentially a hybrid of freeshaft and lineshaft. It has a single flopper like the freeshafts, slide ring and pressed stopper like the lineshafts, but no line attachment. Ring has the line attached, and I can simply undo the line, and slip the ring over the flopper. The slide ring will catch it. Since it has the slidering, I can only front load. This setup is quite similar to the Koah Quickslide line system.
sway21 likes this.
Belzelbub is offline  
Old 08-02-2019, 01:20 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bradenton FL
Posts: 2,091
Default

Belzebub pretty much nailed it. You will loose some accuracy using the ring but most of the time you should be free-shafting on SCUBA.

I converted my Hatch into a slide ring setup. All you need is a bungee, 300lb mono, SS ring (sold on Koah's site), and a screw to stow ring setup under tension when your free-shafting.

If you want a production gun Koah is the only manufacturer I'm familiar with that does enclosed tracks (which I prefer). That said, I killed more fish with my Biller than any other gun to date. They used to sell a system similar to the Koah one.
lazyboi1212 is offline  
Old 08-02-2019, 01:29 PM
  #7  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,436
Default

I shoot an enclosed track Blacktip Custom Spearguns 55" Rear Handle Plus. It is enclosed track with shark finned shafts, which really take about the same time to reload as rear loading an open track. Depending on the current and type of structure, I either use a double wrap line, with a spare freeshaft on the side. Or 2 freeshafts, and a single wrap with a quick slide ring stowed on the gun that can be quickly added for pelagics or up in holes.

This video shows some good examples of the freeshafting setup, and throwing on the quick slide at the 3:35 mark

this one has good examples of the double wrap and backup freeshaft
sway21 likes this.
head_hunter is offline  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:03 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 898
Default

I talked with Kevin at Ocean Rhino, what a great guy. Really spent some time on the phone with me discussing the pros/cons free shafting and speargun design in general. I'm thinking my Mako 100cm can be my freediving gun and I'm strongly considering an Ocean Rhino RX4 model with the 54" shaft for my needs in a teak wood instead of the rhino coated mahogany with one spare shaft on the gun.
sway21 is offline  
Old 08-07-2019, 04:49 AM
  #9  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 5,090
Default

i shoot an ocean rhino rx5 and carry a total of 3 shafts. i keep a free shaft loaded, spare free shaft and hybrid line gun in the spare shaft holders. i utilize the breach loading muzzle exclusively. the line shaft i will use as a free shaft if needed but cannot breech load with it. i really only use the line if i find a fish that is really far back in a hole and wont be able to reach the shaft if i shoot him. other wise its all free shafting on scuba!
sway21 likes this.
Rolandt03 is online now  
Old 08-07-2019, 03:08 PM
  #10  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ocala
Posts: 2,831
Default

Originally Posted by head_hunter View Post
It is enclosed track with shark finned shafts, which really take about the same time to reload as rear loading an open track.
Rob, I love you brother but I’ll bet I can have 3 freeshafts out of my backloaded gun before you get your second one out. Come on over this fall and we’ll fill a couple of coolers.

Older video but a good example of how smooth you can backload a closed muzzle gun with 3 shafts. Sorry there is no sound, YouTube police yanked it.
sway21 likes this.

Last edited by kmoose; 08-07-2019 at 03:20 PM.
kmoose is offline  
Old 08-08-2019, 06:41 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 898
Default

Moose, I've enjoyed all your videos and your style of shooting. You make it look easy! haha that first shot was great. Your gun set up just seems to be the most practical for SCUBA freeshafting, and I know you don't line shaft but having that option for our ledges over here is important I think and for learning freeshafting.
sway21 is offline  
Old 08-08-2019, 07:51 AM
  #12  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ocala
Posts: 2,831
Default

Originally Posted by sway21 View Post
Moose, I've enjoyed all your videos and your style of shooting. You make it look easy! haha that first shot was great. Your gun set up just seems to be the most practical for SCUBA freeshafting, and I know you don't line shaft but having that option for our ledges over here is important I think and for learning freeshafting.
I totally get the need for line shafts in certain situations. I dive the east coast where the gags are in the column on one day or spot and other days they are hiding up in the back of a ledge. Methodology is always dictated by conditions and situations. My only hang up with always using line setups is losing the range and accuracy of free shafts. If I regularly needed to get a fish out of a deep ledge I would bring a line shaft in my spare third position and start the dive with the two free shafts and utilize the line shaft if needed. Going this route you can work on fish in the open that are out when you first roll down. If one rocks up he isn’t going anywhere so you have time to swap over.

I can’t overemphasized how critical it is to get a well placed shaft in a big grouper right off. Using a sharp free shaft will give you the most range and accuracy to get that done. Even if it’s not a kill shot the stuck toad is going to run to the nearest cover and lay down. At that point you have the time to line shaft him if necessary. In the senecio where your first shaft is a line shaft, you run the risk of a big fish ripping off and getting out of dodge and starting a big game of deep water hide and seek.

Over the years I’ve had the advantage of spearing with the best commercial scuba shooters out there. Some free shaft, some line, but all of them are pros at seamlessly adapting to a wide range of conditions that keep them successful.

Here is a video of a gag I stuck and didn’t kill with the first shaft.
sway21 likes this.
kmoose is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 10:26 AM
  #13  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 5,090
Default

Originally Posted by kmoose View Post

I totally get the need for line shafts in certain situations. I dive the east coast where the gags are in the column on one day or spot and other days they are hiding up in the back of a ledge. Methodology is always dictated by conditions and situations. My only hang up with always using line setups is losing the range and accuracy of free shafts. If I regularly needed to get a fish out of a deep ledge I would bring a line shaft in my spare third position and start the dive with the two free shafts and utilize the line shaft if needed. Going this route you can work on fish in the open that are out when you first roll down. If one rocks up he isnít going anywhere so you have time to swap over.

I canít overemphasized how critical it is to get a well placed shaft in a big grouper right off. Using a sharp free shaft will give you the most range and accuracy to get that done. Even if itís not a kill shot the stuck toad is going to run to the nearest cover and lay down. At that point you have the time to line shaft him if necessary. In the senecio where your first shaft is a line shaft, you run the risk of a big fish ripping off and getting out of dodge and starting a big game of deep water hide and seek.

Over the years Iíve had the advantage of spearing with the best commercial scuba shooters out there. Some free shaft, some line, but all of them are pros at seamlessly adapting to a wide range of conditions that keep them successful.

Here is a video of a gag I stuck and didnít kill with the first shaft.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gGS1hLo8sGw

moose is spot on! i do it exactly the same way! i did not learn from his videos which are always great, however i learned exactly as he did, by paying attention to what is going on. realizing a holed fish is not going any where and a shot fish is going to a hole. gives plenty of time to swap over to the line shaft.

usually a shot fish that has holed up creates a lot of dust resulting in poor vis. when a shot fish has holed up, i leave him alone go pester another fish then come back a few minutes later. at that point fish and dust have settle and i can determine best plan to finish the job.
sway21 likes this.
Rolandt03 is online now  
Old 08-09-2019, 12:44 PM
  #14  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,436
Default

Originally Posted by kmoose View Post
Rob, I love you brother but Iíll bet I can have 3 freeshafts out of my backloaded gun before you get your second one out. Come on over this fall and weíll fill a couple of coolers.
Haha can't argue with the master. You guys are on a whole different level. You're right, you can definitely reload quicker. For me its a worthwhile trade for a more versatile gun that I can also power up with 2 bands and a double wrap. But you dive in more target rich environments. I do find myself free shafting in more and more scenarios and leaving the line behind.

Hell yea lets do it!
head_hunter is offline  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:53 AM
  #15  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,273
Default

I setup my Koah to line shaft or free shaft (mine is an older fatback before the battle axe came out), but I find myself line shafting mostly because I blow through the fish a lot, even with only 1 band loaded.

I also setup my line with a "speed load" that I made with a zip tie and a piece of bicycle inner tube so that I can quickly double wrap after a reload.

I'm a recreational guy and admittedly rarely stone a fish unless it's a hog or something similar that doesn't move.
acteg is offline  
Old 08-13-2019, 10:16 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 898
Default

Originally Posted by acteg View Post
I setup my Koah to line shaft or free shaft (mine is an older fatback before the battle axe came out), but I find myself line shafting mostly because I blow through the fish a lot, even with only 1 band loaded.

I also setup my line with a "speed load" that I made with a zip tie and a piece of bicycle inner tube so that I can quickly double wrap after a reload.

I'm a recreational guy and admittedly rarely stone a fish unless it's a hog or something similar that doesn't move.
What size gun?

I notice with my Mako Shaft that is smaller with a single flopper I dont blow through the fish like my dive buddies 48 biller with larger shaft and double flopper.
sway21 is offline  
Old 08-13-2019, 10:54 AM
  #17  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,273
Default

52" with 5/16 shaft
acteg is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread