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Striped Bass 2021 proposals

Old 02-04-2021, 11:55 AM
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Default Striped Bass 2021 proposals

To those who follow the regulators and their proceedings closer than I,

So a few weeks ago I received an email discussing a proposal to extend the commercial striped bass season for 2021, because the commercial fleet failed to fill the quota last year before the 2020 season closed. This struck me as counter-intuitive. If the fleet could not fill the quota, does that not mean the fishery is in trouble? After all, the recreational guys were limited to one fish a day, essentially cutting their quotas in half. Should there not have been sufficient stock available for the commercial fleet, unless the species is in trouble? My memory is that in past years, the comm fleet generally hit the limit before the season was over, often causing early closings, sometimes the early closings were followed with very short reopenings until the bean counters had made sure the quota had been reached. So the proposal to lengthen the season for 2021 seemed wrong to me.

So today I receive an email discussing a proposal to further tighten the restrictions on recreational fishermen. The new proposal is focussed on the circle hook requirement when fishing for stripers with live bait. The proposal It calls for the elimination of the for-hire boat exception from the circle hook requirement, and requires that any fish caught using non circle hooks and artificial baits be returned to the water unharmed. So now the lure fishery is all catch and release. It strikes me that these restrictions will again reduce the numbers taken by the recreational fishermen.

When I put these two together, I can only conclude that the regulators are focussed on helping the commercial fishermen and not the recreational fishermen or the striped bass themselves. I'm not against the reduction of the recreational limits. I would support a moratorium on striped bass. But shouldn't such reductions should apply across the entire fishery?

So maybe I'm missing something here. Is there something I don't understand? And FWIW, I understand that some of the commercial guys are trying to make a living. I'm not terribly moved by that fact. How do you make a living when the stock is fished out?
Old 02-04-2021, 12:11 PM
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Near as I can figure it, you can only use a natural bait on a non-circle hook on tube and worm......and you can't keep any bass you catch with it, nor one could argue, take any glory selfies with it either......
Works for me.


"The proposed amendments would further specify that if a striped bass is caught on any other type of hook other than a circle hooks, which is baited with natural bait, then the fish must be returned to the water immediately and without unnecessary injury."

"Additionally, all but two of the existing exemptions will be rescinded, including the exemption for the for-hire fleet. The two remaining exemptions are for tube and worm fishing and the use of pork rinds. The proposed rule allows for pork rinds to be attached to artificial lures that are rigged with hooks other than circle hooks. It also allows tube and worm fishing to continue provided the lure consists of a minimum of 8Ē latex or rubber tubing with a single hook protruding from the end portion of the tubing where a bait may be attached; tubes may not be rigged with treble hooks"

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Old 02-04-2021, 12:15 PM
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The quota wasn't filled simply because they cut many licenses from the fishery (read up on control dates).

the fishery was open four days a week now it's only open a couple days per week.

Also the daily bag limit went from 15 to 2 fish per day if you don't have a boat registered to you.

Has nothing to do with fish biomass.
Old 02-04-2021, 05:11 PM
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Your RI biomass and fishery is much different from what we have here in Mass. The reason they cut licenses is they were not active and selling fish.... That's the logical thing to do. As a commercial fisherman myself that's what I would want. Keeps the people that are actually actively fishing and making a living in it. Not 36 ft Yellowfin CC using dads fuel. You can say what you want but you could not be more wrong of the bio mass and fishery we have now in Mass.

The reality is its not a legit commercial fishery and hasn't been for 3 years or so now. We went down this path before and it wasn't pretty.

Just because the SW ledge has been loaded doesn't mean the stock is in good shape.
Old 02-05-2021, 08:51 AM
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Huh? None of that is on topic and not sure why you bring up Rhode island.

Access to the quota has been restricted due to:
1 New license structuring.2 Reduced daily bag limits and open fishing days.3 The inability for people to stack fish on off days because of fin clipping rule.

All of these factors came down upon fisherman over the last two years and the last two years the quota has been hard to fill.

Fishermen can fill the quota in a day, the regulators are simply adjusting parameters since all the new changes hampered access to fish.

Dmf needs to reword their email, to the uneducated, it looks like they're allowing more fish to be caught but it's the same fish quota just being spread out different
Old 02-05-2021, 08:54 AM
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I answered the OP's question, not here to play games with internet trolling. Carry on without me if that's the case
Old 02-05-2021, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BBO View Post
Just because the SW ledge has been loaded doesn't mean the stock is in good shape.
SW Ledge Loaded? Yeah, relative to what happened to the recent Chatham jig fishery....20 years ago, it was loaded, just like every other spot on the East Coast, i.e., rec limit was 1 fish at 36"......Thankfully, ASMFC changed the limit/bag to save ALL THE LITTLE BASS that are in the pipeline now. Th fishery as of now is down, basically a result of when they changed the bag limit/size back in the late 90's early 2000's; but they WILL rebound....just like they did before. I know a couple of surf guys who are very well know in these parts, who told me last summer was ridiculous for the amount of small fish around.. As far as your neck of the woods, try drifting eels at night at Monomoy ....let me know how many small fish you catch.....
Old 02-05-2021, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BBO View Post
Your RI biomass and fishery is much different from what we have here in Mass. The reason they cut licenses is they were not active and selling fish.... That's the logical thing to do. As a commercial fisherman myself that's what I would want. Keeps the people that are actually actively fishing and making a living in it. Not 36 ft Yellowfin CC using dads fuel. You can say what you want but you could not be more wrong of the bio mass and fishery we have now in Mass.

The reality is its not a legit commercial fishery and hasn't been for 3 years or so now. We went down this path before and it wasn't pretty.

Just because the SW ledge has been loaded doesn't mean the stock is in good shape.
You got to get out more buddy. The biomass of bass is in federal water and there is a shit ton of them. It's in good shape.
Old 02-05-2021, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BBO View Post
Your RI biomass and fishery is much different from what we have here in Mass. The reason they cut licenses is they were not active and selling fish.... That's the logical thing to do. As a commercial fisherman myself that's what I would want. Keeps the people that are actually actively fishing and making a living in it. Not 36 ft Yellowfin CC using dads fuel. You can say what you want but you could not be more wrong of the bio mass and fishery we have now in Mass.

The reality is its not a legit commercial fishery and hasn't been for 3 years or so now. We went down this path before and it wasn't pretty.

Just because the SW ledge has been loaded doesn't mean the stock is in good shape.
how do you explain the massive amount of stripers that were sitting just inside of crab ledge all fall. Couldnít keep a Mac on the down rod without getting a bass. We were jigging them on sabikiís. All commercial size fish and all outside the 3 mile. I personally believe the massive overpopulation of seals have pushed the schools offshore. Spotter planes have confirmed it as well.

just because a bunch of hippies with fly rods are crying because they canít catch em from the beach anymore doesnít mean they are in danger

Last edited by 32regulator; 02-05-2021 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:23 PM
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Catch shares are not indicative of the health species. The pop up tag study they did showed these fish are hanging out in deep inside the canyons.
Old 02-05-2021, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 32regulator View Post
just because a bunch of hippies with fly rods are crying because they canít catch em from the beach anymore doesnít mean they are in danger
Old 02-05-2021, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 32regulator View Post
just because a bunch of hippies with fly rods are crying because they canít catch em from the beach anymore doesnít mean they are in danger
👍
Old 02-06-2021, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 32regulator View Post
how do you explain the massive amount of stripers that were sitting just inside of crab ledge all fall. Couldnít keep a Mac on the down rod without getting a bass. We were jigging them on sabikiís. All commercial size fish and all outside the 3 mile. I personally believe the massive overpopulation of seals have pushed the schools offshore. Spotter planes have confirmed it as well.

just because a bunch of hippies with fly rods are crying because they canít catch em from the beach anymore doesnít mean they are in danger
Your uncle would love to be a hippy.
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:29 AM
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Whatís most confusing to me about the regulations is how the distinction is always made between the recreational guy and the commercial guy. When everyone is catching fish should it really matter who does the catching? Seems to me that we should be more concerned about how many bass are taken each year and less about how that allocation is divided. No one has ever been able to explain to me how a guy in a 21 foot center console who fishes on the weekends contributes, with any meaningful measure, to the destruction of the biomass. Iím all for preserving a spices and want to see it thrive but it always seems like the guy who weekend fishes gets blamed when, itís completely illogical. For every one fish thatís caught a released successfully by the recreational guy, my hunch is there are 10 that are killed by the commercial guy who gets the under sized fish as by catch. Iíd love for someone to explain how thatís accounted for in any of these measures( Iím not looking to start and argument I just genuinely donít know how.)
Old 02-09-2021, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Jhs34 View Post
What’s most confusing to me about the regulations is how the distinction is always made between the recreational guy and the commercial guy. When everyone is catching fish should it really matter who does the catching? Seems to me that we should be more concerned about how many bass are taken each year and less about how that allocation is divided. No one has ever been able to explain to me how a guy in a 21 foot center console who fishes on the weekends contributes, with any meaningful measure, to the destruction of the biomass. I’m all for preserving a spices and want to see it thrive but it always seems like the guy who weekend fishes gets blamed when, it’s completely illogical. For every one fish that’s caught a released successfully by the recreational guy, my hunch is there are 10 that are killed by the commercial guy who gets the under sized fish as by catch. I’d love for someone to explain how that’s accounted for in any of these measures( I’m not looking to start and argument I just genuinely don’t know how.)
Here is the main problem with your logic. The average commercial fisherman will kill more fish than the average rec fisherman but there is only a small amount of commercial fisherman, there are more than 100 times the amount of recs as commercial. Studies show mortality rate on release exists, they say its 9%. The amount of fish caught and release by recs that die during or next day of release is a lot more than the size of the commercial quota. I am rec fisherman, but every year I get multiple 30+ striper trips on my boat. We target them maybe 15 times a season. Prior to slot we would keep maybe 1-2 a season, with the new slot we are releasing all of these as they are mostly over slot. We still land roughly 250-300 stripers depending on the year on my boat. At the 9% mortality rate that's roughly 27 fish per year dead on release. That's my boat alone, the nights when I am out targeting them there are roughly 80+ boats a night out there. None of these guys are commercial, we recs do a lot of damage just because the sheer numbers of us. Now the commercial draggers on the other hand do possess more of an issue related towards wrecking habitat and bycatch but that is completely different than the normal rod and reel commercial fisherman.

I also agree with huge amount of stripers pass the 3 mile, last year while sharking at the mudhole, we got absolutely covered up in stripers. Every time we dropped a jig we came up with a striper.
Old 02-09-2021, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rifisher88 View Post
Here is the main problem with your logic. The average commercial fisherman will kill more fish than the average rec fisherman but there is only a small amount of commercial fisherman, there are more than 100 times the amount of recs as commercial. Studies show mortality rate on release exists, they say its 9%. The amount of fish caught and release by recs that die during or next day of release is a lot more than the size of the commercial quota. I am rec fisherman, but every year I get multiple 30+ striper trips on my boat. We target them maybe 15 times a season. Prior to slot we would keep maybe 1-2 a season, with the new slot we are releasing all of these as they are mostly over slot. We still land roughly 250-300 stripers depending on the year on my boat. At the 9% mortality rate that's roughly 27 fish per year dead on release. That's my boat alone, the nights when I am out targeting them there are roughly 80+ boats a night out there. None of these guys are commercial, we recs do a lot of damage just because the sheer numbers of us. Now the commercial draggers on the other hand do possess more of an issue related towards wrecking habitat and bycatch but that is completely different than the normal rod and reel commercial fisherman.

I also agree with huge amount of stripers pass the 3 mile, last year while sharking at the mudhole, we got absolutely covered up in stripers. Every time we dropped a jig we came up with a striper.
Makes sense. Good explanation. The only thing that is still not certain to me is, by your analysis you are assuming all the rec guys are catching each time they target bass. Thatís the part that seems a bit of a stretch.

Is the 9% mortality number you quoted encompassing the commercial guys too or is that number strictly based on the rec guys?

I appreciate your response. Certainly clarified the mindset of the regulators a bit more.
Old 02-09-2021, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jhs34 View Post
Makes sense. Good explanation. The only thing that is still not certain to me is, by your analysis you are assuming all the rec guys are catching each time they target bass. That’s the part that seems a bit of a stretch.

Is the 9% mortality number you quoted encompassing the commercial guys too or is that number strictly based on the rec guys?

I appreciate your response. Certainly clarified the mindset of the regulators a bit more.
The 9% mortality comes from a study done. They do factor in a commercial dead release as well, I'll attach the chart for you at the bottom. Commercial is a clean area for the most part because their numbers are known, any fish sold to a dealer is taken from that quota, quota gets hit it closes. Also on commercial not every state has a commercial striped bass fishery, but those coastal states have a rec fishery. States like Maryland only allow 1231 commercial permits, others like RI are limited entry. Its tough since they are migratory fish so you have rec fisherman up and down the coast targeting them, including shore bound anglers. Us rec on the other hand do not have to report catches, so our numbers are based off surveys and estimates based on licenses, our numbers could be way higher or way lower, but still will make up more than the commercial share. I have never once been surveyed outside of noaa migatory license. Unfortunately without making recs report catches, I don't think you'll ever get the exact numbers.

Old 02-09-2021, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BBO View Post
Your RI biomass and fishery is much different from what we have here in Mass. The reason they cut licenses is they were not active and selling fish.... That's the logical thing to do. As a commercial fisherman myself that's what I would want. Keeps the people that are actually actively fishing and making a living in it. Not 36 ft Yellowfin CC using dads fuel. You can say what you want but you could not be more wrong of the bio mass and fishery we have now in Mass.

The reality is its not a legit commercial fishery and hasn't been for 3 years or so now. We went down this path before and it wasn't pretty.

Just because the SW ledge has been loaded doesn't mean the stock is in good shape.
sick of seeing dozens of kids on their dads Southport, whalers, and regulators gaffing fish on commercial days. They donít need the $ and this is not a real commercial fishery w license costing $250, out of state boats, and over 70% of the boats contributing less than a couple limits of fish per year. This is not a living for most and itís just for side $ at the expense of a dwindling resource that adds 100x more to our economy with these big fish in our waters. I agree patterns in the last 3 years have changed due to the emergence of pogies on the north shore of MA, increased seals and sharks, intensive commercial pressure on the sub sectors of the biomass that return to the same MA hot spots annually, and colder springs, among others. Those offshore are far and few between in most cases but i am hopeful more data around that gives me more hope. Those fish east of Chatham were all 20-28Ē, not breeders. I was out tuna and bass fishing 5/7 days a week the past 3 years all over MA. Its pathetic to think weíd add more days to target the last 1-2 sections of the spawning female biomass that visit our waters. I had 150 boats a day out off Boston this year on Mondays and Thursdays. Rec guys are hammering them too, but these fish seem to be showing more consistently w Menhaden schools everywhere and are in a more concentrated area which makes them much more vulnerable to exploitation.
Old 02-10-2021, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wfe5015 View Post
sick of seeing dozens of kids on their dads Southport, whalers, and regulators gaffing fish on commercial days. They donít need the $ and this is not a real commercial fishery w license costing $250, out of state boats, and over 70% of the boats contributing less than a couple limits of fish per year. This is not a living for most and itís just for side $ at the expense of a dwindling resource that adds 100x more to our economy with these big fish in our waters. I agree patterns in the last 3 years have changed due to the emergence of pogies on the north shore of MA, increased seals and sharks, intensive commercial pressure on the sub sectors of the biomass that return to the same MA hot spots annually, and colder springs, among others. Those offshore are far and few between in most cases but i am hopeful more data around that gives me more hope. Those fish east of Chatham were all 20-28Ē, not breeders. I was out tuna and bass fishing 5/7 days a week the past 3 years all over MA. Its pathetic to think weíd add more days to target the last 1-2 sections of the spawning female biomass that visit our waters. I had 150 boats a day out off Boston this year on Mondays and Thursdays. Rec guys are hammering them too, but these fish seem to be showing more consistently w Menhaden schools everywhere and are in a more concentrated area which makes them much more vulnerable to exploitation.
Are you kidding me dude? Kids dont have the right to commercial fish on a southport or a regulator? What does the cost of the boat have to do with anything? What a snob comment. Fishing around pogie schools exploits bass ? Here is a news flash. The resource is not dwindling and the pressure put on these fish from the commercial harvest is nothing compared to the pressure seen by rec fisherman. You should always want to see kids fishing with dad.

Last edited by TUNEE; 02-10-2021 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 02-10-2021, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by TUNEE View Post
Are you kidding me dude? Kids dont have the right to commercial fish on a southport or a regulator? What does the cost of the boat have to do with anything? What a snob comment. Fishing around pogie schools exploits bass ? Here is a news flash. The resource is not dwindling and the pressure put on these fish from the commercial harvest is nothing compared to the pressure seen by rec fisherman. You should always want to see kids fishing with dad.
TUNEE have a lot of respect for you, you contribute a lot especially around the BFT fishery which I partake in. But to say stuff like that just shows your missing the point. Kids w daddyís gas $ on their parents expensive CCs shouldnít be commercial fishing w the population in the state it is... guys doing it for a living should benefit. Iím all for kids fishing w their dads, I do it frequently myself. But to misconstrue what Iím saying like that just shows your underlying motive here man. The nature of bait concentration in the last two years has created a scenario where a large majority of the commercial sized biomass sits in one place which gives way to 130 boats trailering up the coast to get on top of them. You clearly have commercial ties and donít want to listen to the data. I agree Rec puts an insane amount of pressure on the overall stock.. But theyíre not going after all 34Ē+ fish, you and I both know that. Have a lot of respect for your input and intel but youíre off the mark here and it shows in your childish interpretation of my aforementioned points. Regardless, I hope the resource fairs better the next few years and youíre right.

Last edited by wfe5015; 02-10-2021 at 05:27 AM.

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