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Standard Horizon GX2200 / GX2000 and Furuno TZT2

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Old 02-08-2018, 05:14 PM
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Default Standard Horizon GX2200 / GX2000 and Furuno TZT2

I have a few questions and scenarios. I know that for all of this that everything needs to be set to 38,400 baud on the radios, and the Furuno IF-NMEA2K2 needs a wire nipped to put it in "high speed mode".

Scenario #1, GX2200 and Furuno TZT2 (with Furuno IF-NMEA2K2):
I know this one!
Grey from GX2200 to L-BLU/YEL (+ input) on the Furuno IF-NMEA2K2
Brown from GX2200 to L-BLU/GRN (- input) on the Furuno IF-NMEA2K2


Scenario #2, GX2200 and GX2000:
Say you have just these two radios on the boat and you wanted GPS data from the GX2200 to get passed to the GX2000 so that the DSC would work on the GX2000. I'm guessing here:
GX2200 grey wire to the Yellow + on the GX2000
GX2200 brown wire to White - on the GX2000
Sounds correct? Does the GX2200 even broadcast the GPS location? (from the manual, "The GX2200 uses NMEA 0183 protocol to share coordinates, DSC and AIS information to and from a GPS chartplotter.")

Scenario #3, all components networked together:
Of course I will all of these installed. The main question here - can I connect the GX2200 and the GX2000 together (as in Scenario #2, assuming it's correct). Then connect the Furuno IF-NMEA2K2 to these two connections? In this instance, the only "talker" would be the GX2200.

By being able to do scenarion #3, I would avoid having to bring the NMEA0183 GPS data from the TZT2 back to the GX2000 in a separate wire run. The radios will be close together, the TZT2 will be further away.

For people that don't know, the TZT2 line of MFD's doesn't have a NME0183 in, hence the need for the Furuno IF-NMEA2K2 (converts NMEA0183 to NMEA2000). But, the TZT2 does have NMEA 0183 out.
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Old 02-09-2018, 05:41 AM
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Refer to PAGE 146 of the user manual for the Standard Horizon GX2200. The NMEA-0183 input and output sentences are described.

DATA INPUT OR OUTPUT

When set for baud rate 38400, the radio will accept the following sentences on its NMEA-0183-HS input port:
GGA, GLL, GNS, RMC, GSA, and GSV

Note that the information or data this radio accepts does not include any NMEA-083 sentence of type DSC or DSE.

Note that the input this DSC radio accepts is input related to the vessel position.

When set for baud rate 38400, the radio will create the following sentences on its NMEA-1083-HS output:
DSC, DSE, GGA, GLL, GNS, RMC, DSA, GSV, and VDM

Your desire that the radios would share digital selective calling information is limited by these constraints.

A DSC radio does not respond to DSC or DSE data via its NMEA-0183 input. It responds to a digital selective calling radio transmission that the receiving radio receives via its antenna input, and produces appropriate data output at the NMEA-0183 port.

INTERFACING

One NMEA-0183 TALKER sending sentence RMC can be connected to two NMEA-0183 LISTENER. In your specific case the Furuno NMEA convertor TALKER output from the chart plotter could be connected to the LISTENER both radios. This will allow the chart plotter to send boat position data to both radios. You can just wire the two LISTENERS in parallel and connect to the one TALKER.

One NMEA-0183 LISTENER cannot be connected to two TALKERS. This means the TALKERS from two radios cannot be connected to a single LISTENER on the Furuno convertor.

In your specific case, you can:

--pick one radio, probably the GX2200, and connect its TALKER to the LISTENER of the Furuno convertor. This would send the AIS (DVM) data and the DSC (DSC or DSE) data to the Furuno from the GX2200. The GX2000 radio data output would not be connected; or,

--purchase a high-speed NMEA-0183 multiplexer, connect both radio's TALKER to the multiplexer's LISTENER. Then connect the multiplexer TALKER to the Furuno convertor LISTENER. Be sure the multiplexer can work at 38400-baud. This will let the TALKER data from both radios go to the chart plotter. Note that if both radios have the same MMSI (and they should if they are on the same vessel) when the both receive a DSC call directed to that MMSI or to ALL SHIPS, they will both produce data output to the chart plotter. Exactly how the chart plotter will respond to getting what will essentially be duplicated data is unknown to me.
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I cannot offer any advice about wire insulation color. I only offer advice about connecting TALKER and LISTENER.

Since all devices appear to be NMEA-0183 v2.0 or higher and thus use balanced RS-422 type interfaces, you just connect the TALKER A/B wires to the corresponding LISTENER A/B wires.

The color of wire insulation is often left to the manufacturer to choose, so you will have to carefully convert wire color to wire function to deduce the wire colors to be connected. For example, identify the TALKER A wire color, find that conductor; identify the LISTENER A wire color, find that conductor; connect them together to connect TALKER A to LISTENER A. Repeat for the TALKER B and LISTENER B circuit.
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Last edited by jhebert; 02-10-2018 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:50 AM
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I guess I was too detailed and didn't really state my question the right way.

All I really want is the DSC distress button to work on both radios. If there's an emergency, you don't want to worry about which little red button you hit.

Since the GX2200 has internal GPS, it's automatically going to work.

Since the GX2000 does not have internal GPS, it needs to get GPS information from somewhere - I was hoping it could get it from the GX2200. If can't get the NMEA0183 data from the GX2200 over to the GX2000, there is always the NMEA0183 out from the TZT2.

To recap, the goals in the system are:
1. Have the GX2200 give AIS information data to the TZT2
2. Have the GX2200 give GPS position data to the GX2000 (so DSC emergency button can be used on the GX2000)
3. As a bonus, have the GX2200 give AIS information to the GX2000 since it says it's AIS capable.
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jhebert View Post

When set for baud rate 38400, the GX2200 radio will accept the following sentences on its NMEA-0183-HS input port:
GGA Global Positioning System Fix Data
GLL Geographic Position – Latitude/Longitude
GNS GNSS Fix Data
RMC Recommended Minimum Specific GNSS Data
GSA GNSS DOP and Active Satellites
GSV GNSS Satellites in View

When set for baud rate 38400, the radio will create the following sentences on its NMEA-1083-HS output:
DSC Digital Selective Calling Information
DSE Expanded Digital Selective Calling
GGA Global Positioning System Fix Data
GLL Geographic Position – Latitude/Longitude
GNS GNSS Fix Data
RMC Recommended Minimum Specific GNSS Data
GSA GNSS DOP and Active Satellites
GSV GNSS Satellites in View
VDM UAIS VHF Data-link Message
So, I annotated what you wrote on what the GX2200 can accept and what it creates so I could understand it better (and reference it later).

The GX2200 manual says that the when the GX2200 is connected to an external chart plotter to turn off the internal GPS. So, what will happen if I leave it on so that the the GPS information can make it's way from the GX2200 to the GX2000? When that information makes it's way to the TZT2, I would think that the TZT2 would know how to ignore it (i.e. you could choose your GPS source). But if the Furuno IF-NMEA2K2 works in both directions, and the GPS data from the TZT2 makes it's way onto the NMEA0183 network, will that mess up the two radios? (since there would be two sets of GPS data broadcast on the NMEA0183 network)
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:53 AM
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It should work. Just connect the 38,400 output of the 2200 to the 38400 input of the 2000 and the input of the n2k thing. So 2 sets of 3 wires will be joined together.

The 2000 says it will take gps info at 38,400. The first models did not.
If you only connect those wires. It does not get gps from the plotter. I see no need to connect any more. The internal gps will be left on.
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:12 AM
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I now understand more clearly the goal you want to obtain with the two radios and one chartplotter.

Regarding providing each radio with position data, I would connect them as follows:

--the radio with its own GNSS receiver, the GX2200, should use its own GNSS receiver for position data for the DSC transmitter. In this way it will be its own, self-contained system.

--the radio without a GNSS receiver, the GX2000, should get its position data for its DSC transmitter from the chartplotter. In this way it will still be a working system in the event the other radio fails or the other radio's GNSS receiver is not working.

For setting up the NMEA-0183 interfaces, you just need to set the chartplotter to send sentence RMC to the GX2000. You mentioned the chartplotter has a NMEA-0183 output. This would be the simplest arrangement:

TZT2 TALKER ---> GX2000 LISTENER
RMC sentence --> DSC transmitter

You only really need to have the RMC sentence sent to the GX2000.

For the GX2200 adjust the settings to use the internal GNSS receiver.

Regarding getting data from radios to the chartplotter, I would connect them as follows:

Because the input to the chartplotter is via the protocol converter, and because the protocol converter has only one NMEA-0183 input, and because you want to send both DSC sentence and AIS sentences, you will have to set up the GX2200 so it combines them on one output.

I believe that on PAGE 146 the manual explains that the way to combine both the DSC sentences (DSC, DSE) and the AIS sentence (VDM) on one port is to set the bi-directional port to 38400 BPS. This is the GRAY/BROWN pair, which is sometimes called the "NMEA DSC Output" to distinguish it from the YELLOW/WHITE pair, called the "AIS Data Output."

That combined data output from the GX2200 will go to the protocol converter and thence to the chartplotter.

If you want to add redundancy for the GX2200, you can also connect its "NMEA GPS Input" LISTENER (BLUE/GREEN pair) to the protocol convertor NMEA TALKER. (Or you could parallel its LISTENER wiring with the GX2000 LISTENER. The protocol permits wiring two LISTENERS in parallel to one TALKER. The chartplotter would send RMC to both radios via that one NMEA-0183 output.)

If the GX2200 internal GNSS receiver is not working well, you can configure the radio to change to the external input data.

With the arrangement above, the chartplotter will get AIS data and DSC data from the GX2200. The GX2200 will be your primary RECEIVER for DSC and your only receiver for AIS.

The GX2000 will be your secondary RECEIVER for DSC and its data won't be sent to the radio.

Both the GX2000 and GX2200 will be equally ready to work as TRANSMITTERS for DSC. Because they will be getting position data from separate GNSS receivers, they might send slightly different positions.

If you wanted to add more redundancy, you could include a DPDT switch, and (perhaps) let the GX2000 TALKER send DSC data to the chartplotter. (But it would have to be at 38400 BPS; check to see if the GX2000 can do that speed.) However, if you set the switch to the GX2000, you will lose the AIS data from the GX2200. The switch would only be used if the GX2200 radio failed and you were desperate to get DSC data from the GX2000 into the chartplotter.

By the way, I just realized this whole process will only work if the protocol converter and all the radios work at 38400 BPS. You better verify that before going further.

There might be even more complexity possible. For example, if the GX2000 can accept data from an external AIS receiver, you could wire the unused NMEA-HS TALKER (called "AIS Data outout) on the GX2200 to the GX2000 LISTENER (called "NMEA input (+) and on the BROWN wire). In that way, the AIS targets could be shown on the GX2000. I am not sure this is necessary. Also, the TALKER/LISTENER signals on the GX2000 are unbalanced (NMEA-0183 v1.0) signals, and interconnecting them becomes a bit trickier.

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Old 02-11-2018, 08:26 AM
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Looking into the GX2000 radio more closely, it appears that the bi-directional NMEA-0183 port is available only at 4800-BPS. The second, uni-directional port with only a LISTENER is available at only 38400-BPS.

A careful reading of the owner's manual fails to find any clear information about what data can be input at which LISTENER.

My best guess is that the data that can be accepted at the 4800-BPS LISTENER is GGA, GLL, GNS, and RMC. The data that can be accepted at the 38400-BPS LISTENER may be limited to only VDM.

If this is the case, then won't be able to interface the GX2000 and GX2200 as you propose.

You will have to get the position data to the GX2000 from the chartplotter at 4800-BPS as I described above, using the chartplotters uni-directional TALKER-only NMEA-0183 port.

Also, use caution when interfacing the GX2000 to other NMEA-0183 devices. The GX2000 ports are old, NMEA-0183 v1.0 unbalanced signals. The other radio uses modern NMEA-0183 v2.0 or newer balanced signals. I have not researched the chart plotter or converter device to determine their electrical nature.
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:30 PM
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Page 17 says it will take gps at hs. It won't let cut and paste from manual.
2000 / 2150 manual

http://www.standardhorizon.com/downl...pplication/pdf


Actually now I'm confused. I know for sure the 2100 needs low speed gps in. And hs out. And needs 2 plotter ports. Horrible design. Why they made the 2150 shorty after. But what I don't get is that manual shows the 2000 as the same. So 2 manuals showing different for the 2000

2100 / 2000 manual

http://www.standardhorizon.com/downl...lication%2Fpdf


My best guess is when they released the 2150. They also updated the 2000. But didn't change its number... so it depend on its age / software weither it will take hs gps input

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Old 02-11-2018, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jhebert View Post
By the way, I just realized this whole process will only work if the protocol converter and all the radios work at 38400 BPS. You better verify that before going further.
Yes - from the Furuno IF-NMEA2K2 NMEA DATA CONVERTER manual:




So, since the AIS is most important here, I think I would "Cut the PORT2 (PPL)" which is "AIS / 38400bps". When in AID mode at 38400 baud, can we still have the other data too? I'm going to post up on the Furuno board and see what they say but usually, they don't like to speak for other brands devices.

What would happen if I "Cut the PORT1 (ORG)" for "High Speed / 38400bps"? You'd think if set for 38400 conversion, it wouldn't matter what data is running through.

Does this change any of your answers?

https://www.furunousa.com/-/media/si...nual_ver_b.pdf
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:01 PM
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Actually, what I'm now reading in the Furuno IF-N2K manual is that's bi-directional - pages 5 and 6 (for some reason I thought it was one way NMEA0183--->NMEA2000 only)

So, in the most basic set-up, I can leave the GPS off on the GX2200.

The Furuno MFD will broadcast GGA and RMC, the IF-N2K will then convert it to MNEA0183 every 1s. The GX2200 can use that location data. The GX2200 can also use the same location data and from the MFD but should be able to get the AIS data straight from the GX2200.

If something were to fail, I could always disconnect the connection to the MFD and turn the GPS back on within the GX2200.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:04 PM
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If the 2000 is only 4800. You will need 2 funro converters. One set to higher speed for the 2200 to get ais, and send gps. And one set to 4800 feeding gps the 2000.

The only way to know if the 2000 will take 38400 is to test it. Because those 2 manuals I posted do not agree which each other


Weather you want to use the 2200 gps. Or furuno gps is still up to you. Either you hook up 2 wires or 4 wires between 2200 and nk2 adapter. I'm pretty sure if you connect it you still choose in the radio menu which one to use


I'm not sure about the colours. Based on that one picture. You may lose gps data when in ais mode. Normally you just pick a speed. Not limit what it does.

Edit. Based on manual. In ais mode it still sends rmc. But nothing else. If the 2200 takes rmc for gps you are good in ais mode

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Old 02-12-2018, 06:28 AM
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Another problem that has been unmentioned: what translations does the Furuno convertor handle?

The convertor should handle NMEA-0183 sentences DSC, DSE, and VDM, and it should convert them to appropriate NMEA-2000 PGN data.

I can't tell you what the PGN numbers are precisely, but the Furuno documentation should.

When converting NMEA-2000 PGN to NMEA-0183 sentences, you (should) just need RMC to make the two radios happy.

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Old 02-12-2018, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
... won't let cut and paste from manual.
ASIDE: that is an annoying feature of newer PDF documents: the creator of the document can inhibit the ability for readers to copy text from the document. But there are always ways around such annoyances. E.g.:

22.5 NMEA Input/Output
NMEA 0183 GPS Input (4800 baud) ................. GGA, GLL, GNS, RMC
NMEA 0183 DSC Output (4800 baud) ........................... DSC and DSE
NMEA 0183AIS Output (38400 baud) ......................................... VDM

Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
... My best guess is when they released the 2150. They also updated the 2000. But didn't change its number... so it depend on its age / software [whether] it will take hs gps input
That is a very good analysis. And, yes, often what equipment actually does is not entirely consistent with what the equipment manual states will occur. The equipment behavior changes with firmware revisions. The printed manual (or the PDF) often remains unchanged, or the manual reflects only the latest firmware, not the legacy firmware.

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Old 02-12-2018, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
If the 2000 is only 4800. You will need 2 funro converters. One set to higher speed for the 2200 to get ais, and send gps. And one set to 4800 feeding gps the 2000.

The only way to know if the 2000 will take 38400 is to test it. Because those 2 manuals I posted do not agree which each other


Weather you want to use the 2200 gps. Or furuno gps is still up to you. Either you hook up 2 wires or 4 wires between 2200 and nk2 adapter. I'm pretty sure if you connect it you still choose in the radio menu which one to use


I'm not sure about the colours. Based on that one picture. You may lose gps data when in ais mode. Normally you just pick a speed. Not limit what it does.

Edit. Based on manual. In ais mode it still sends rmc. But nothing else. If the 2200 takes rmc for gps you are good in ais mode
I think so...
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jhebert View Post
Another problem that has been unmentioned: what translations does the Furuno convertor handle?

The convertor should handle NMEA-0183 sentences DSC, DSE, and VDM, and it should convert them to appropriate NMEA-2000 PGN data.

I can't tell you what the PGN numbers are precisely, but the Furuno documentation should.

When converting NMEA-2000 PGN to NMEA-0183 sentences, you (should) just need RMC to make the two radios happy.
It look like the converter does the sentences needed.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:25 AM
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That comprehensive list only shows what NMEA-0183 outputs will occur; you only need RMC, so you are covered.

The list does not show NMEA 2000 outputs from NMEA-0183 input. You might check for a second list.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:48 AM
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It looks like smac is onto something - if the GX2000 can only get AIS via NMEA0183 high speed and GPS via low speed, I guess I'd like to make sure it gets GPS info as the priority so the DSC button works. Getting AIS on the GX2000 is probably secondary since you're most likely to want to view that on the MFD.


This whole thing is making my head spin....
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jhebert View Post
that comprehensive list only shows what nmea-0183 outputs will occur; you only need rmc, so you are covered.

The list does not show nmea 2000 outputs from nmea-0183 input. You might check for a second list.
nmea2000 ---> nmea0183

another comprehensive list...
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:40 AM
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From the second comprehensive list provided by Furuno with their converter device (and hats off them for great documentation) I see:

NMEA-0183 DSC, DSE ---> converted to PGN 129808 DSC CALL INFORMATION

That is good; a NMEA-2000-connected chart plotter will get information about DSC calls and be able to plot the position of another vessel--assuming the chartplotter can do that. (There is no guarantee all chartplotters have this functionality.)

I also see:

NMEA-0183 VDM ---> converted to (11) PGNs 129038,129039, 129040, 29041, 129793, 129794, 129795, 129797, 129798, 129801, and 129802.

That is also good. a NMEA-2000-connected chart plotter will get information about AIS broadcasts and be able to plot the position of another vessel--assuming the chartplotter can do that. (There is no guarantee all chartplotters have this functionality.)
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by starbright55 View Post
...this whole thing is making my head spin....
I don't make color drawings very well. Here is a table:

DEVICE: GX2200
Set "DSC" output to 38400

Radio "NMEA Output (+) Gray" is now called TALKER A
Radio "NMEA Output (-) Brown" is now called TALKER B

Radio "NMEA GPS Input (+)" is now called LISTENER A
Radio "NMEA GPS Input (-)" is now called LISTENER B

At radio, insulate other wires in bundle that are not being used.

DEVICE: Furuno Convertor IF-NMEA2K2
"TD_A on YEL or PNK" now called TALKER A
"TD_B on GREEN or PNK/BLU now called TALKER B
Insulate other non-used wires.

"RD-C on BLU or L-BLu/GRN" now called LISTENER B
"RD-H on WHITE or L-BLU/YEL now called LISTENER A

Note: the Furuno IF-NMEA2K2 manual is very UNCLEAR about these connections. I have tried to deduce their function as NMEA-0183 signals from the supplied drawing, but the drawing uses completely inappropriate labels for the signals.

Interconnect GX2200 and Furuno IF-NMEA2K2 as follows
Radio TALKER A/B connect to LISTENER A/B of Furuno IF-NMEA2K2 Convertor

This sends DSC, DSE, and VDM to IF-NMEA2K2 convertor, which then sends to chart plotter via NMEA-2000.

You can also interconnect the GX2200 and Furuno IF-NMEA2K2 to let the chartplotter send to the radio, in case, for example, you wanted to have the radio use the GNSS receiver from the chart plotter for its position information. Connect as follows:

Furuno IF-NMEA2K2 Convertor TALKER A/B connects to Radio LISTENER A/B

This allows the chart plotter to send RMC to the radio for automatic position updates for the DSC transmitter.

--

For Chart plotter to Second radio, GX2000

DEVICE: Furuno Chartplotter TZT
--Based on the information you supplied
"NMEA TD-A on WHITE wire" now known as TALKER A
"NMEA TD-B on BLUE wire" now known as TALKER B
Set the baud rate on the Furuno NMEA-0183 port to 4800.

DEVICE: GX2000
"NMEA Input + on BLUE wire" now called LISTENER A
"NMEA Common on GREEN wire" now known as NMEA COMMON

Connect radio LISTENER A to TALKER A on Furuno Chartplotter
Connect radio NMEA COMMON to chassis of Furuno Chartplotter or 12-Volt ground common.
Insulate TALKER B from Furuno chartplotter and leave floating

Note: I edited this about a dozen times, so make sure you read the final version revised about 5:50 a.m.

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Last edited by jhebert; 02-14-2018 at 05:51 AM.
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