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School me on side scan sonar

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Old 01-08-2018, 06:32 AM
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Default School me on side scan sonar

My rig:
32 SeaVee twin 300 Verados
Nav Net 2 12 inch display with open array radar
Furuno 110V sounder
Gladiator auto pilot
Icom Vhf

Here's my question. I live in SWFL and 90% of my fishing is offshore in 80-150 of water. We primarily fish for grouper and snapper. We generally run 32 mph and watch the sounder for signs of fish, ledges , rock, etc. The 1100 Fsv has done a great job and I am happy with it. My question is, would side scan be beneficial for my type of fishing and on my set-up? Like i said, I'm happy with the sounder, but not crazy about the Nav Net 2 . Any recommendations?
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:01 AM
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Won't help you.
I have it on my 25ft boat and never even look at it.
It works best at 6mph. Won't help you at all while running.
Works best in shallower water (can work in your depths but best shallower).
I've had issues with blurry images in offshore current.
Sidescan, as I've seen it on my hummingbird, works great in a lake and that's about it.
Just get a more powerful transducer. That's what you really want.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Incisor1 View Post
My rig:
32 SeaVee twin 300 Verados
Nav Net 2 12 inch display with open array radar
Furuno 110V sounder
Gladiator auto pilot
Icom Vhf

Here's my question. I live in SWFL and 90% of my fishing is offshore in 80-150 of water. We primarily fish for grouper and snapper. We generally run 32 mph and watch the sounder for signs of fish, ledges , rock, etc. The 1100 Fsv has done a great job and I am happy with it. My question is, would side scan be beneficial for my type of fishing and on my set-up? Like i said, I'm happy with the sounder, but not crazy about the Nav Net 2 . Any recommendations?
For your speed the current Garmin,Hummingbird and Navico Structure scan will not work.

But..

The new Furuno DFF3D has excellent higher speed capability...excellent detail at 20 30 kts....for both shallow and much deeper.
At 200' depths you can see out about 300' on each side of the boat.




.
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Last edited by semperfifishing; 01-08-2018 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:15 AM
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I will be installing a side scan/3D transducer in the near future. I fish in the Northeast Gulf of Mexico for grouper, and there is relatively little vertical relief in the areas which I fish. 90% of my grouper fishing is done between 30 and 80 feet of water.

I will be installing a high-frequency CHIRP transducer, but in 60 – 80 feet of water, the area covered by the transducer will only be about a 15 – 20 foot circle. I am hoping that the side scan will show me 1 – 2 foot changes in the bottom typography out to about 100 feet or so on either side of the boat in 50 – 80 feet of water. I don't care that the side scan won't work well at 30 kn. I plan on using side scan primarily when I am pulling big plugs for grouper and finding rocks and ledges outside of the 2D sonar area.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by semperfifishing View Post
For your speed the current Garmin,Hummingbird and Navico Structure scan will not work.

But..

The new Furuno DFF3D has excellent higher speed capability...excellent detail at 20 30 kts....for both shallow and much deeper.
At 200' depths you can see out about 300' on each side of the boat.
.

I dont grouper fish but I was on a boat with the Furuno 3D sounder box and we were reading bottom at 22kn in the chop. It could be a good tool in locating structure on the bottom. It operates at much lower frequency and much higher power than anything else on the market.

Also keep in mind that if you mate with a TZT2 with internal sounder, if you get an appropriate transducer, you can get bottom discrimination too. You can even set your tracks on the GPS to change color with changes in bottom content.

Last edited by iFishMD; 01-08-2018 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by iFishMD View Post
I dont grouper fish but I was on a boat with the Furuno 3D sounder box and we were reading bottom at 22kn in the chop. It could be a good tool in locating structure on the bottom. It operates at much lower frequency and much higher power than anything else on the market.

Also keep in mind that if you mate with a TZT2 with internal sounder, if you get an appropriate transducer, you can get bottom discrimination too. You can even set you tracks on the GPS to change color with changes in bottom content.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by m9000 View Post
I will be installing a side scan/3D transducer in the near future. I fish in the Northeast Gulf of Mexico for grouper, and there is relatively little vertical relief in the areas which I fish. 90% of my grouper fishing is done between 30 and 80 feet of water.

I will be installing a high-frequency CHIRP transducer, but in 60 – 80 feet of water, the area covered by the transducer will only be about a 15 – 20 foot circle. I am hoping that the side scan will show me 1 – 2 foot changes in the bottom typography out to about 100 feet or so on either side of the boat in 50 – 80 feet of water. I don't care that the side scan won't work well at 30 kn. I plan on using side scan primarily when I am pulling big plugs for grouper and finding rocks and ledges outside of the 2D sonar area.
With the DFF3d very doable.

example: at 100' depth below..coverage to about 100' on each side







.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by m9000 View Post
I will be installing a side scan/3D transducer in the near future. I fish in the Northeast Gulf of Mexico for grouper, and there is relatively little vertical relief in the areas which I fish. 90% of my grouper fishing is done between 30 and 80 feet of water.

I will be installing a high-frequency CHIRP transducer, but in 60 – 80 feet of water, the area covered by the transducer will only be about a 15 – 20 foot circle. I am hoping that the side scan will show me 1 – 2 foot changes in the bottom typography out to about 100 feet or so on either side of the boat in 50 – 80 feet of water. I don't care that the side scan won't work well at 30 kn. I plan on using side scan primarily when I am pulling big plugs for grouper and finding rocks and ledges outside of the 2D sonar area.
I work the same area and it is invaluable for finding new bottom, mapping existing bottom for satellite spots, searching turtle dives, fish shows, and tracking down old loran number conversions.

See any other spot near this ledge that isn't right under the boat?
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:02 AM
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Here is another of Moose's side scan shots.....good detail and using the GT52HW


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Old 01-08-2018, 10:06 AM
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Its not about speed. What it makes possible is finding new rocks close to the rocks you already know about. Side scan also comes in handy when you have entered coordinates from a chart or list of public wrecks and when you get there nothing is showing up. Skip over to side scan and find what you are looking for.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:13 AM
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We mainly bottom fish northern Gulf of Mexico, mostly in 45 -125'.

Was interested in the 7612xsv but open to others.

What is the max speed side scan can clearly read at?

Which manufacturer makes the best side scan?

Which transducers work the best?

Last edited by tangledline; 01-08-2018 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Added question.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tangledline View Post
We mainly bottom fish northern Gulf of Mexico, mostly in 45 -125'.

Was interested in the 7612xsv but open to others.

What is the max speed side scan can clearly read at?

Which manufacturer makes the best side scan?

Which transducers work the best?
My 7610xsv can effectively see spots at 20 knots but you have to get used to seeing the clues. For the depths you are talking about I would go with the GT51. That is what I use and it is very good to 250' if the water is flat or you have a stable (large) boat. If it is possible go with the thru hull instead of the transom mount. I went with a single transom mount at first but installed a thru hull in my keel and it works so much better. Below is a pic of a nice spot I found at speed with my transom mount. It was a little bumpy but it still showed me something to look at. I am a diver and get to see what my scope finds so I am fortunate to get a good deal of perspective between what I see on the scope and what I see in person.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:44 AM
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FWIW, I use garmin's side scan (GT51M-TM), run 35mph and see the bottom w/o issues. Like w/ any transducer, placement is the key to getting good pix at speed.
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kmoose View Post
My 7610xsv can effectively see spots at 20 knots but you have to get used to seeing the clues. For the depths you are talking about I would go with the GT51. That is what I use and it is very good to 250' if the water is flat or you have a stable (large) boat. If it is possible go with the thru hull instead of the transom mount. I went with a single transom mount at first but installed a thru hull in my keel and it works so much better. Below is a pic of a nice spot I found at speed with my transom mount. It was a little bumpy but it still showed me something to look at. I am a diver and get to see what my scope finds so I am fortunate to get a good deal of perspective between what I see on the scope and what I see in person.

Is your keel flat or is it rounded? If your keel is rounded, did you mount the transducer directly to the keel or did you create a small pocket for the transducer? I haven't been able to find that many people that have side scan transducers mounted on rounded keels and there is a divergence of opinion on the best mounting technique.

One group maintains that the transducer needs to be mounted on a perfectly flat surface and recessed enough into the hull so water can flow smoothly from the keel to over the transducer. It seems like that would be necessary if you wanted to get good images at speed.

The other school of thought maintains that you can mount the side scan transducer directly to the rounded portion of the keel and either leave it bare or fill in the gap between the transducer and the fiberglass with thickened epoxy. This technique would probably not result in good images at speed, but if you were only using it when trolling large plugs or exploring for new spots at 3-7 knots, there probably won't be enough turbulent flow over the transducer to degrade the image.

The side scan image with a little black blip on the right image and the picture of that sweet ledge honey hole was really valuable. I appreciate you sharing.

I am not a diver, but am considering getting an underwater video camera to see what the side scan anomalies actually look like.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:58 PM
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I have installed plenty of Simrad/Lowrance, Garmin and Raymarine sidescan/structurescan/sidevu transducers that have held their side scan at speed, so while you definitely get much better detail under 12kts it is possible on most boats to have the transducer installed so that it will hold the bottom. Not every boat but a majority of them have no problem (just depends on the hull type). The more you use it and actually understand how to tune the transducer (which most owners don't - everybody likes the "set it and forget it" technique) then the more experienced you will be at reading it at speed vs. slow scanning. Most of the time these transducers are used for "scanning" an area that you know that there's something near by, the one feature I love with the Navico produces the ability to overlay the structure scan on top of the chart so you can see exactly the areas you've already scanned and even the direction the object is laying (i.e. the barge, ledge, structure, etc). Here's a picture of a 31 Ocean Master running with a transom mount Simrad TotalScan, unfortunately it was just sand in this shot (I took it to prove to another customer that a transom mount can hold bottom while running) and the quality isn't the best because I didn't do a screenshot instead it's a photo, you you get the idea, they can and will read at more than 12 kts. I know it's not in a 100' but I'm not usually going on a 3 hr sea trial with a customer and I my demo boat is a double stepped hull with the 3D SS and no it won't hold bottom above 10 kts, haha!

[URL=http://s110.photobucket.com/user/mahimahi99/media/Blank/20170721_203120.jpg.html]/URL]
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Old 01-08-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by m9000 View Post
Is your keel flat or is it rounded? If your keel is rounded, did you mount the transducer directly to the keel or did you create a small pocket for the transducer? I haven't been able to find that many people that have side scan transducers mounted on rounded keels and there is a divergence of opinion on the best mounting technique.

One group maintains that the transducer needs to be mounted on a perfectly flat surface and recessed enough into the hull so water can flow smoothly from the keel to over the transducer. It seems like that would be necessary if you wanted to get good images at speed.

The other school of thought maintains that you can mount the side scan transducer directly to the rounded portion of the keel and either leave it bare or fill in the gap between the transducer and the fiberglass with thickened epoxy. This technique would probably not result in good images at speed, but if you were only using it when trolling large plugs or exploring for new spots at 3-7 knots, there probably won't be enough turbulent flow over the transducer to degrade the image.

The side scan image with a little black blip on the right image and the picture of that sweet ledge honey hole was really valuable. I appreciate you sharing.

I am not a diver, but am considering getting an underwater video camera to see what the side scan anomalies actually look like.
My SeaCraft has a 3” flat keel on the bottom of the V that worked out perfect for my hull. Some may have to either go with a transom mount or go with a thru hull pair. Pocket mount work very well also.
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:01 AM
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I am having an issue with the traditional chirp presenting a clear image on plane - CV-51M THP - 7612XSV - Cobia 261 - installed clear of any strakes or pick-ups.

There is a lot of noise on the screen and the depth will blink.

I have tried ultra scroll and screen rate of 8:1. Also tried fast pic advance with screen rate of 4:1 with the same results using the auto frequency. Played with the manual frequency setting but I cannot remember what frequencies I used.

Works good off plane.

Any tips?
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:22 AM
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My GT51 will read at all speeds up to 47mph. Its mounted to a stern saver with a homemade splash plate on the centerline of the hull. Twin motors. It will mark decently up to 20kts. I think if I played with the gain and the like it would do better at higher speeds.
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Old 08-04-2018, 02:55 PM
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A lot of people think they are seeing side scan while on plane, but it's really very limited. The static displayed on the screen looks sort of like sand, so it's deceptive. At best, you can see only close to the boat at lower planing speeds in not-so-deep water. Here's about the best I can do with a Humminbird. If you can do better, post it.


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Old 08-04-2018, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dove72 View Post
A lot of people think they are seeing side scan while on plane, but it's really very limited. The static displayed on the screen looks sort of like sand, so it's deceptive. At best, you can see only close to the boat at lower planing speeds in not-so-deep water. Here's about the best I can do with a Humminbird. If you can do better, post it.


My earlier post was right at 20 knots. Range settings at speed need to be set around 2x the depth with no more than 3 times max. Way too many folks run their range too far out and think there is a problem with their unit. It is very hard for a unit to process so much data at speed but in all reality I can see structure on your screen shot just fine but there are no range markers for reference.
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