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Old 04-25-2006, 06:55 PM   #1
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Default A65---not impressed yet

I took my new 24' center console home from the dealer last Saturday in 20-25 knot winds and it wasn't a pretty sight....lol. I had all my electronics installed and the A65 was my choice. Not more than 1/4 mile from the dealer the depth stopped working due to my installer messing up. We saw the transducer not in the bracket when we got to our slip. I dragged it for 30 miles!

I cannot blame that on Raymarine. I notice the A65 shuts down when I start the motor (250 Verado). I can understand the Verado causing the voltage to go low. I must press the power button and wait for it to re-boot. The main problem is it goes through a re-boot cycle periodically while underway. The chart door did not seat well also.

I called their customer service and they overnighted me a chart door and some mounting screws that were lost. On the phone I mentioned the turning off and re-booting problem. I also emailed them. They had no suggestions whatsoever. I offered to wire it directly to the battery to cut down on losses and hopefully any interference that may be causing it to re-boot. His response was.....well ok try that. Here is the reply to my email:
"It sounds like you have the A65 on the same battery that is powering up the motor this is not a good way to install this equipment, it should be on a house battery, this I believe is the source of most of your problems."

What should I do now? It is a bare bones 24' center console. A house battery? What the f%[email protected] do they think this is, a 45 foot boat? Maybe if we cut power to our refrigerator, radar, ice maker, and hot water heater...what a dumb ass...

The A65 was made for small boats, without house batteries...that's why there is no radar capability on the A65, because it's supposed to be an electronics unit that doesn't need much power, and isn't supposed to be super complex.

If anyone knows anybody at Raymarine feel free to offer my comments. Anybody have any other suggestions?

Howard

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Old 04-25-2006, 07:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

So your problems are:
1) Transducer fell off.
2) Unit restarts when engine starts.
3) Chart door is a piece of junk.
4) Unit restarts randomly while underway.

1 is the dealer's fault. The blame for 2 is shared between you and your dealer - you because you bought a boat with only a single battery and your dealer because he would sell a boat with only a single battery. 3 is Raymarine's fault. 4 I suspect has the same cause as 2, but it could be bad wiring (see 1) or a faulty unit (see 3).

You have a 24' boat with a 250hp verado. A second battery is absolutely not out of the question. A second battery could be installed for less than $100 and would be prudent to have whether you're in a 16' flats boat or a 45' cruiser. It's arguably more important on a smaller boat, since you're more susceptible to various problems.

I'm sorry you're having trouble. I'd bet installing another battery and then going through the installation and tightening screws would solve your problems.
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Old 04-25-2006, 07:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

Cooper is absiolutley correct..
I woould have two Cablella's AGM group 27's if I owned that motor/boat...- all of $250 to get hassle free power for years....
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Old 04-25-2006, 07:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

yup, with modern electronics, 2 batteries are the standard now (even with smaller boats). Generally, the motor is powered off your "cranking battery" and your electronics/panel is off your "house battery."Good news is it's a very easy fix. There are a ton of threads on it.

good luck and congrats on the new boat. Pics?
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

I just updated my battery management system and thought I'd contribute to this thread. As I installed my new chartplotter/sounder I decided that I wanted to eliminate those dreaded "voltage drops" that occur when I try to start my outboard in battery position 2(house) because I forgot to change my battery switch. The starter labors and the electronics blink out. Somehow I stumbled onto this http://www.bluesea.com/ and after a little research I decided to do a comprehensive upgrade. I went with the Dual Circuit Plus Battery Switch, BatteryLink ACR, and a pair of busbars to clean up my wiring. All of these components are mounted on an acrylic panel that cost me all of $12.00 including fabrication. Basically, the #1(cranking) battery is solely dedicated to the starter. All the electronics, dc panel, downriggers, etc., are wired to # 2(house). The Batterylink switch sits between the two batteries and only after #1 is charged does it "close the circuit" and commence to charge #2. Bottom line, the starting battery is always charged and online and when I go to crank my starter the electronics are unaffected because they're entirely isolated. I never have to remember to change the battery switch. A combine option IS available if #1 ever starts to go away. I posted some pictures in Adeline's album for anyone that's interested. http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?s...view_album.php
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

What gauge wire did they use to power the A65? If they used wire that's too thin it'll fail to provide high enough voltage. Check with a voltmeter. See what the voltage is at the chartplotter and then at where it's wired to the system. If it's crappy wire it'll be lower at the chartplotter. Combine that with the cranking motor putting a load on the battery and it's no surprise it winks out.
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

Okay, here goes because I was upset before. The A65 is wired to the breaker panel in the center console. The A65 displays 12.1 - 12.2 volts with the motor off and 13.9 - 14.1 with the motor running and battery charging. The wire run from the A65 to the breakers is less than 3 feet. There is a heavy #8 wire in the console I may try next to wire to. I think the A65 will crap out at 10.8 volts, so it is understandable it fails when cranking.

I have two batteries installed, both 1000 CA as the Verado manual requires, Glen warned me! I have a battery switch and I believe the center console is powered off whatever battery is on, either #1, #2, or both. I thought both batteries were essentially starting batteries and to run on them on alternate days. I have not explored the info you members have supplied yet, but the battery link gizmo sounds like it might be the answer. At work we deal with microprocessors and "dirty" power and found that twisting the wires and going directly to the battery often fixes the problem.

I guess I was upset of the lack of help from Raymarine. It's obvious they are not THT members!

Thanks everyone!
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

I just got my boat back from installer on Tuesday. Aside from the cheap chart door (I think all of us agree that is sub-standard quality), so far I cannot complain. One day though is hardly enough to fully judge. HD screen is beautiful and great quality. Charts very accurate as is GPS. I do have dual batteries and none of the issues discussed above have been a factor. Look forward to playing with it over the next few days and becoming better acquainted with all the functions. That will be easier said then done as I have still not mastered my two year old handheld. Nobody's fault but mine. Mine did not come with DSM25 sounder owners manual so I will request one from Raymarine (I know they are online but would like an original to keep on the boat with all the others). I hope my luck continues as I was really looking forward to having this unit.

Oldrcap...hope things work out and good luck to you.
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Old 04-26-2006, 01:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

I misunderstood and thought you had only a single battery. My apologies! You have a very common setup for rigging two batteries with a single engine. Basically everything is always run off one battery and the other is kept in reserve. It's not the best setup for the reason you've discovered. All you need to turn that frown upside down is one of these: http://www.bepmarine.com/showcategory.cfm?categoryid=76 A single engine battery distribution cluster with a VSR. It will turn one of your batteries into a house battery and they other into a starting battery. When the starting battery has a full charge, the house battery will be charged. If you need to, you can parallel them in an emergency. There are other alternatives as well, but this is a very nice and compact all-in-one unit.
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Old 04-26-2006, 02:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

The BEP Systems are very nice indeed. Just be sure that you consider your motor's charging output when connecting your second (house) battery. Ensuring correct sizing:

The charging system must be correctly sized to the batteries (see figure 1).

If the charging system is too small for the batteries the VSR system will not work properly. Instead, once the starting battery has reached the right voltage and the house battery is connected, the system's voltage will "cave down" below 12.7 volts and the relay will automatically disconnect. The voltage then rises, the relay re-engages; then the voltage drops, the relay disengages and a buzzer-like sound will be heard as the relay quickly switches in and out.



Dimensions: (L X W X D) 69mm x 69mm x 50mm


Part No:
710-100A: For use on 12 volt charging systems up to 100A/12V.
710-100A-DS: 100A/12V Dual sensing systems (special order).
710-100A-24V: For use on 24 volt charging systems up to 100A/24V.



Figure 1Alternator verses Battery Capacity: Alternator size Second Battery Size
10 amp 60 amp hours GRP 22
16 amp 85 amp hours GRP 24
25 - 35 amp 85 - 100 amp hours GRP 27
50 - 60 amp 100 - 130 amp hours GRP 31
80 - 90 amp 130 - 220 amp hours GRP 80


Standard 100Amp VSR's have single sensing setup.
Dual sensing units are available upon request (710-100A-DS).
This can be used where a battery charger or second charging source is used into the house battery

Common example:

On a Yamaha 115hp outboard with a 16 amp charging output the house battery should not be larger than 65 amp/hr.

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Old 04-26-2006, 06:09 AM   #11
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Default RE: A65---not impressed yet

I had exactly the same problems with chart door, rebooting, and lack of good advice from Raymarine on how to fix. After doing my own troubleshooting I discovered that the system does not reboot when the GPS antenna is disconnected. I have a brand new battery and wiring is solid. Sent unit to Raymarine with power cable and antenna for them to figure it out. Let me know if you find a fix and I will let you know if they discover the problem
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Old 04-26-2006, 11:22 AM   #12
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

Thanks again to everyone who offered help.........and I apologize to Cooper for not being more explicit in my original post about the typical 2 battery setup. I totally agree that adding the batterylink or VSR would solve my cranking/crapping out problem since the electronics would be on a "house" battery. However, I am still confused as to why the unit re-boots while underway, as captronsportfishin77 has stated above. I think I will do some troubleshooting myself and wait for his answer from RM. The first thing I am going to do is run some new "temporary" power wires on deck to the standby battery and go out and run the boat to see if the A65 will still shut down. Did you try this captronsportfishin77? If it still craps out then it's definitely not a battery problem. If it still fails I might try twisting and re-routing the power wires to minimize induced spikes from nearby circuits.

The BEP site confused me about sizing the second battery. The Verado has a 70 amp alternator and the tag on the batteries states.....MR27, CA 1000, CCA 800, RC 125. I guess it's group 27 but have no idea what the RC 125 means. The ACR systen is under a hundred plus the cost of 3 switches, I think.

captronsportfishin77, please keep me posted on your progress and I'll do the same.


Thanks again.
Howard
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Old 04-26-2006, 01:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

Quote:
oldrcap - 4/26/2006 9:22 AM



The BEP site confused me about sizing the second battery. The Verado has a 70 amp alternator and the tag on the batteries states.....MR27, CA 1000, CCA 800, RC 125. I guess it's group 27 but have no idea what the RC 125 means.
ANSWER:
Reserve capacity is the number of minutes a battery can maintain a useful voltage under a 25 ampere discharge. The higher the minute rating, the greater the battery's ability to run lights, pumps, inverters, and electronics for a longer period before recharging is necessary. The 25 Amp. Reserve Capacity Rating is more realistic than Amp-Hour or CCA as a measurement of capacity for deep cycle service. When I posted my warning about second battery sizing I didn't realize that your Verado produced 70 amps. According to the BEP chart you should be good for a group 31 battery. That is the same size I use for my house(second) battery. However, my Johnson 70 only produces 6 amps max so the BEP system wasn't appropriate for me.
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Old 04-26-2006, 04:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

No, I haven't tried temp wiring to the stand-by battery. My unit shuts down even when nothing else is on and running. I previously tried your other idea by repositioning associated wiring and GPS sensor to ensure no RF interference. No luck. Happy troubleshooting - frustrating as heck! This is my first and last Raymarine product - just bought Furuno package for my other vessel. Will keep you posted Howard.
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Old 04-26-2006, 05:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

you're not alone - anthem's ray 65 shuts off as soon as you turn it on...
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Old 04-26-2006, 10:05 PM   #16
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Default RE: A65---not impressed yet

I don't feel alone with this problem. My spanking brand new A65 constantly reset itself every 10 to 20 seconds. After CME exchanged the unit, the replacement unit now only resets itself every few minutes. Hope to spend a little time on it this week to figure out the pattern. Have the double battery deal (on a skiff) but think you are right in that the slightest voltage fluctuation in the system is triggering the reset. Ray has always stood behind their products on my other boats and their tech staff has been more than helpful solving other problems. I would appreciate any other suggestions from our THT members. I only want it to work as perfectly as the brochure describes. Thanks alot!!!! (Know Ray is watching......and the May update solves this too????)
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Old 04-26-2006, 11:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

I would like to put forth a new theory. It is not a voltage problem but a software problem. I think that's why the unit does not crap out when the antenna is disconnected. It has no information to process so it remains stable. I am not going down the voltage path until we hear some more. I will try to disconnect my antenna this weekend and see what happens. Any other A65 users having problems?

Howard
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Old 04-26-2006, 11:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

I have the same shutdown problem with the A65 on my 17ft skiff. However, most of the time I have to hit the power button to restart it. Occasionally it restarts on its own. The unit also displayed the low voltage alarm when I started up my motor, a Yamaha 60 hp four-stroke. I switched from a group 24 to a group 27 battery and the low voltage problem went away. Also, it seems like the A65 shuts down less frequently after the battery change.

This issue, along with the missing track plotting functionality has left me very disappointed with this product and I certainly would not recommend it to anyone.
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Old 04-27-2006, 12:36 AM   #19
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Default Re: A65---not impressed yet

Boy am I glad I sent mine back prior to installing it and got the Furuno GP7000F !

Garry
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Old 04-27-2006, 12:58 AM   #20
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Default RE: A65---not impressed yet

Quote:
oldrcap - 4/25/2006 5:55 PM
I called [RAYMARINE] customer service and they overnighted me a chart door and some mounting screws that were lost. On the phone I mentioned the turning off and re-booting problem. I also emailed them. They had no suggestions whatsoever. I offered to wire it directly to the battery to cut down on losses and hopefully any interference that may be causing it to re-boot. His response was.....well ok try that. Here is the reply to my email:
"It sounds like you have the A65 on the same battery that is powering up the motor this is not a good way to install this equipment, it should be on a house battery, this I believe is the source of most of your problems."
I'd say that RAYMARINE has correctly diagnosed the fundamental problem with this installation. Modern electronics using microprocessors and lots of memory will not tolerate having their supply voltage drop out. This is what happens during engine starting. You can rail against RAYMARINE, but they're absolutely right about this.
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