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Furuno TZT2 and R199 transducer problem

Old 11-19-2016, 11:19 AM
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Default Furuno TZT2 and R199 transducer problem

I have an R199 monunted in the boat hooked up to a TZT2. It will read down to about 100 at up to 30-35 knots. It provides a great picture. It really has trouble after 100 feet and will not read over 300 feet even at a dead stand still. This is on both Hf and LF. I've played with all the setting on the TZ to make sure they are where they need to be. This package should do a lot better. I'm starting to think this sounder/transducer combo is not compatible.

The transducer originally had an 8 pin Garmin plug on it and I took it and had a Furuno 10 plug put on. Ive asked Airmar and they say it should work. Furuno seems to think this a non-diplexed transducer and won't work (sending both the 50 and 200 signals throgh one element). I'm not sure to who to belive at this point but all I know it doesn't work as intended.

So...

1. Can this transducer be made to work with the TZT2 via a diplexer box?
2. If not the diplexer, could it work with a DFF3?

I'm stuck with the in-hull mount and can't afford to put one of the new chirp transducers that fit my current mounting tank so I'm looking at all possible avenues to try and make what I've got work.

Below is a picture of the transducer ID tag.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:50 PM
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http://www.airmartechnology.com/uplo...hures/r199.pdf

Furuno didn't tell you to use the MB1100 matching box? Also the internal sounder won't output the full 2kW to that transducer, the DFF3 will.

Call Gemeco with that part # and date 02/13 and they'll tell you if its diplexed.
Old 11-19-2016, 01:01 PM
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You need DFF3 to run that transducer properly.
Old 11-20-2016, 09:05 AM
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The Garmin 8 pin is diplexed, you can use it with any furuno diplexed sounder(dff1 fcv585 587 etc), it will not work with the dff3, it does not need a matching box.

I have a very similar setup (dff1 with converted garmin r199)in my 31 rybo runner and we read down to 1500 at speed, and have read up to 2700 at rest.

Just because you're not firing 2000 watts doesn't mean you aren't benefiting from the larger element set of the r199.

I would guess you have air voids in the layup of your boat, what kind of boat is this installed in?
Old 11-20-2016, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
I

The transducer originally had an 8 pin Garmin plug on it and I took it and had a Furuno 10 plug put on. Ive asked Airmar and they say it should work. Furuno seems to think this a non-diplexed transducer and won't work (sending both the 50 and 200 signals throgh one element). I'm not sure to who to belive at this point but all I know it doesn't work as intended.

So...

1. Can this transducer be made to work with the TZT2 via a diplexer box?
2. If not the diplexer, could it work with a DFF3?

I'm stuck with the in-hull mount and can't afford to put one of the new chirp transducers that fit my current mounting tank so I'm looking at all possible avenues to try and make what I've got work.



.
First..make certain your tank has the correct level of fluid.
If you are getting returns at 100' then you are firing...and the issue is not the match between the TZT and the transducer...


The Airmar R199
Part Number: 010-10643-20 is already a diplexed 50/200 kHZ 2 kw and should work with the 1 kw of the TZT.


From Airmar about the R199.

http://www.airmartechnology.com/uplo...hures/r199.pdf


Maximize the performance of any 1 kW or 2 kW echosounder
with the R199 in-hull transducer. The R199 is designed with a
200 kHz ceramic element , which provides excellent resolution
without sacrificing sensitivity.


.

Last edited by semperfifishing; 11-22-2016 at 07:18 AM.
Old 11-21-2016, 05:40 AM
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Max,

It's a 32 Donzi ZF mounted in front of the first step so I know it is getting clean water. Yes, your shop is the one who put the Furuno pigtail on for me and I remember you explaining that even though the TZT2 is only 1kw I should benefit from the bigger elements of the R199.

It's possible that their are voids in the layup but I wouldn't think probable.

Gil,

Yes, the tank is full to the top with the appropriate antifreeze.

Here are a couple screen shots over the weekend running at 35 mph.

I guess I could take the transducer out and hang it over the side in 500 feet of water and see what I get?
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Old 11-21-2016, 10:57 AM
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Definitely hang it over the side in 500 and let us know what happens. I know it sounds like a PITA and it is but this is really the only way to get a definitive answer on what's going on.
Old 11-21-2016, 11:02 AM
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Also kind of odd that the LF readings are not "hard" whereas the HF are. I wonder what happens if you rotate the ducer 180 degrees in the tank. I was just doing some research...is the bottom of those boats cored with divinycell or just the deck and topsides?
Old 11-22-2016, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mstyle8517 View Post
Also kind of odd that the LF readings are not "hard" whereas the HF are. I wonder what happens if you rotate the ducer 180 degrees in the tank. I was just doing some research...is the bottom of those boats cored with divinycell or just the deck and topsides?
Max,

The bottom is solid glass. I'm going to try and get out over the weekend and drop it over the side and when I put it back I'll rotate it in the tank to see what happens.
Old 12-02-2016, 02:36 PM
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Was finally able to get out today and drop the transducer over the side in 450 feet. Bottom line there was no improvement between in the boat or in the water which means I either have a problem with the transducer or the sonar in the TZT2. I'm inclined to believe it's the transducer because it works well in shallow depths.

The first 2 pics are with the transducer in the boat. The last 2 are with it hanging over the side.

Airmar says that if I ship it to them they have the ability to put it on the bench and test.

What do you all think?
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Old 12-02-2016, 03:44 PM
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Okay, you've done your DD. No sense in sending the ducer back to airmar in my opinion, if it's reading well shallow but not deep, unlikely to be a transducer error.

To me, the issue looks like it's either a config. issue or an issue with the head unit.

Is it possible that you did not manually set up the transducer properly, particularly the output power, see procedure on page 3-14:

http://www.furunousa.com/ProductDocu...n%20Manual.pdf

It should be transmit power 1000 on both low and high frequencies and low should be set to 50khz and high to 200khz.

If all else fails, I will lend you (with a CC auth. deposit) a DFF1 with cables to bypass the internal sounder.

Regards,

Max
Old 12-03-2016, 07:08 AM
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Max,

I will send you a PM and take you up on your offer. I've got it running on manual so maybe it is the sounder.
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:49 PM
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What happens when you change from 'manual' to 'model' mode? Can you select R199?

Also, 'TDID' mode could be worth trying and set the frequencies etc.
Old 12-03-2016, 03:07 PM
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Ozfish,

I've tried it both ways and get the same results. R199 isn't an option shown. On initial startup it found it as TDID transducer. I went in and checked the settings and they are the same as for manual. Airmar said to run it on manual as this R199 was originally setup for Garmin. I'm going to try the external sounder and see what happens.
Old 12-04-2016, 12:59 AM
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It seems like you've covered all the bases then. The next test will determine the culprit one way or another but my feeling is that it's the MFD underpowering the transducer.
Old 12-04-2016, 01:56 AM
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Underpowering is not an issue, impedance mismatch might be.
Old 12-04-2016, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by abbor View Post
Underpowering is not an issue, impedance mismatch might be.
I don't doubt your suggestion of an impedance mismatch but I'm curious as to what confirms for you that the MFD is giving the expected power output for a given depth?
Old 12-04-2016, 05:52 AM
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Because transmit power is not very important. There is no minimum power for driving a transducer, the specified power is absolute max rating. The difference between 600W, 1kW and 2kW is minimal, only a factor 3.33 between 600W and 2kW transmit power. R199 is 200x as sensitive as B60 at 50kHz and 32x at 200kHz, this is the major difference between Airmar 600W and 2kW.

A impedance mismatch can cause a much larger loss of performance than the difference in transmit power. But if it's the correct version of R199 it has 100 ohm impedance which I assume should be correct for Furuno. Checking the exact version of the transducer is probably a good idea.
Old 12-04-2016, 06:46 AM
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I doubt an impedance mismatch, these were taken by me with a Garmin diplexed r199 on a dff1, more will be revealed...we'll figure it out
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Old 12-04-2016, 01:07 PM
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Those are impressive depths for a 2k ducer getting 1k. I would have thought not much past 1000ft. Very curious to find what the issue is with the OP setup.

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