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Blue sea ACR and onboard charger

Old 06-04-2016, 02:12 PM
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Default Blue sea ACR and onboard charger

Will a Blueseas ACR interfere with a onboard battery charger or vice versa?
Old 06-04-2016, 03:35 PM
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No not at all. As a matter of fact BlueSea has an ACR with a charger built in. Blue Sea 7655
Old 06-04-2016, 09:06 PM
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Nope, todays smart chargers can see the ACR and act accordingly.
Old 06-04-2016, 09:24 PM
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Actually, ANY charger - smart or dumb will trigger an ACR. You can go big bucks for beauty and status with an ACR, but I find the Yandina gets the job done as well as any for $65.
http://yandina.com/c100InfoR3.htm
And I get sooo tickled with these "smart" chargers. I have a 30 year old 6/12 volt charger that I'll leave on a dead battery overnight. The next morning the needle on the charger points to zero amps and when I hook up my modern 'Smart Charger" to that battery it says 100%. Makes me wonder how smart it is to spend big bucks for s sophisticated charger?

How about it Charger Guy? How and how much money will I save with a "Smart Charger"?
Old 06-05-2016, 03:00 AM
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To answer this question, need to know type of charger, its charging capacity and the battery capacities.
Old 06-05-2016, 04:55 AM
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I fail to see the need to know the type of charger, its capacity and/or the battery capacity.

The charger is going to provide voltage and current to the battery to which it is connected. When the voltage of that battery reaches the set point of the ACR/VSR/Combiner the two (or more) batteries will be paralleled so that each will be charged by the charger. Each according to its own need.

Now how long it will take to charge one, two or more batteries is a function of the output of the charger, the size of the batteries being charged, and the state of charge of the batteries. But that was not the question.

Is a VSR/ACR/Combiner that difficult to understand? All it does is to connect two or more batteries to a charging source. It is just doing automatically what anyone could be doing manually via the use of a wire or a switch.
Old 06-05-2016, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by alloyboy View Post
I fail to see the need to know the type of charger, its capacity and/or the battery capacity.

The charger is going to provide voltage and current to the battery to which it is connected. When the voltage of that battery reaches the set point of the ACR/VSR/Combiner the two (or more) batteries will be paralleled so that each will be charged by the charger. Each according to its own need.

Now how long it will take to charge one, two or more batteries is a function of the output of the charger, the size of the batteries being charged, and the state of charge of the batteries. But that was not the question.

Is a VSR/ACR/Combiner that difficult to understand? All it does is to connect two or more batteries to a charging source. It is just doing automatically what anyone could be doing manually via the use of a wire or a switch.
My question was to the OP for a reason, your opinion of failing to see why I need to know things only demonstrates your simplistic understanding of the subject.
If its a smart charger, say a 7 stage, it will boot up on one battery, take measurements then allocate the charging algorithm to the microprocessor to initiate the required stages as needed. It will monitor the stages continually. Desulphation, Soft Start, Bulk Charge, Absorption, Equalization, Analysis, Reconditioning and Trickle charge, any or all.
When the ACR adds another battery, the smart charger needs to reallocate parameters.
So whether you fail to see the need for me to know this from the OP, is irrelevant.

As for battery capacity and charger capacity, the charger should be sized approx 25% of the battery capacity for good batteries. Say a 25amp charger is needed for a 100 amphour battery. This question is purely for sizing. But according to you I don't need to know the battery capacity or his charger capacity, weird. So when the second battery is switched in by the ACR the resistance halves and charger capacity drops to 12.5%. So the OPs question as to "whether or not the ACR will interfere with the charger", in this scenario... yes, it may confuse the smart charger which may initiate a fault protection shutdown with an error code.

As for your question to me "Is a VSR/ACR/Combiner that difficult to understand?"
in your case it is, a Voltage Sensing Relay and an Automatic Charge Relay are not the same. Why else would they have different names?
A VSR is a relay that trips when a set cut-in voltage is exceeded an trips back when it drops to the cut-out voltage, with an hysteresis in the middle. Used for many applications such 12 volt fridge control or anything requiring to be switched when a specific 'voltage' is 'sensed' like running engine or as a simulated ignition signal. Its current capacity makes it suitable for battery combining but may chatter as voltage fluctuates between trip point hysterisis.
The ACRs are more complex with timers and ignition control and specifically designed for charging. They can remain combined when battery voltage drops due to combining a flat battery to a charging one by use of timers, a VSR would drop out.
Old 06-05-2016, 07:39 AM
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You are way overthinking this subject.
Old 06-05-2016, 10:40 AM
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Are you asking me why a random smart charger did not charge your dead battery and thought it was full when it was not? Need a lot more info to respond there.

Side comment
Generally speaking I will take a smart charger over an ACR if I had to pick one over the other for $$ reasons. Only the smart charger will be able to top it off while at the dock and condition the batteries.
Old 06-05-2016, 12:47 PM
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My Smart Charger will not charge a dead battery, but my 30 year old (not so smart) battery charger will. The Smart Charger doesn't know it's connected to a battery unless there's a significant voltage present. If I want to use the Smart Charger I have to connect the old charger too, then when the smart one senses the voltage from the dumb one, I can disconnect the dumb one.

I'm curious about this conditioning thing. What does that mean?
Old 06-05-2016, 12:57 PM
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and your smart charger is less likely to try and charge a battery that should not be charged, whereas your 30 year old (not smart) charger will just apply voltage (and therefore some current) to whatever batery you put on it, and maybe boil it dry, maybe gas you with hydrogen sulphide, maybe start a fire, maybe work properly...

the "conditioning thing" is mostly marketing mumbo-jumbo for charge the batteries properly, which an automatic (eg, smart) charger can often do faster and more efficiently than otherwise posible.

both smart and non-smart chargers have their place. both VSR and ACR's have their place.
Old 06-05-2016, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffnick View Post
My Smart Charger will not charge a dead battery, but my 30 year old (not so smart) battery charger will. The Smart Charger doesn't know it's connected to a battery unless there's a significant voltage present. If I want to use the Smart Charger I have to connect the old charger too, then when the smart one senses the voltage from the dumb one, I can disconnect the dumb one.

I'm curious about this conditioning thing. What does that mean?
Reconditioning gives high voltage pulses in an attempt to blow off sulphation from the plates.
Have recovered many batteries using this function, that would otherwise be thrown away.
I actually have a 7 stage charger for repair. Consists of 3 main blocks, the Switchmode power supply conversion, the Microprocessing, (testing, monitoring, keyboard decoder, display driver) and finally the low voltage output power transistors.
As you can see by the circuitry it needs a voltage to 'start', so tricking it by connecting a second battery will get it going, but..it will allocate a charging regime based on the second battery so make sure you reboot it after the weak battery has sufficient voltage to run it so that it can test the weak battery in its own right.
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Old 06-05-2016, 04:48 PM
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They pretty much answered the questions for me, thanks!
Old 06-05-2016, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ChargerGuy View Post
Are you asking me why a random smart charger did not charge your dead battery and thought it was full when it was not? Need a lot more info to respond there.

Side comment
Generally speaking I will take a smart charger over an ACR if I had to pick one over the other for $$ reasons. Only the smart charger will be able to top it off while at the dock and condition the batteries.
Although I agree with you that a smart charger is a good pick the ACR accomplishes something that a smart charger will not do and there for should be used with a good charger...

The ACR can separate a starting battery from the house battery, thus allowing the user to have the ability to start their boat, or if for some reason the starting battery fails can allow the house battery to start the boat.
Old 06-05-2016, 07:48 PM
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Will be running a NOCO Gen4 4 bank. Just wanted to make sure that the ACR will not interfere with charging although each battery will have its own set of leads to the terminals getting charged.
Old 06-05-2016, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mickt243 View Post
and your smart charger is less likely to try and charge a battery that should not be charged,
There are so many people and laws and signs telling me what and what not to do that I simply will not tolerate my “Smart” charger telling me that my battery should not be charged.
Old 06-06-2016, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mud turtle View Post
Will be running a NOCO Gen4 4 bank. Just wanted to make sure that the ACR will not interfere with charging although each battery will have its own set of leads to the terminals getting charged.
You can wire the acr to a switch that will disable it when you want to, either for charging or to prevent drain during prolonged storage.
Old 06-06-2016, 06:44 AM
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A little off-topic, but related...there are devices that prevent a battery from being discharged beyond a certain level, as with single-battery systems where it is important to retain enough charge for starting (think police cars and boats with only one battery) when accessories are being used with engine off or just idling.

They are also useful to have on a dedicated house battery (bank), both to prevent the battery from over-discharge damage, and also to prevent its voltage from dropping below the minimum voltage of certain electronics. Another luxury is to have a digital voltmeter for each battery (or bank), mounted where it is easily monitored...quite inexpensive on eBay...I like the ones with large LEDs which can be read from a distance.
MFDs have voltage-monitoring capabilities, too, of course, but the digits often get lost on a cluttered page and ignored.
Old 06-06-2016, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by isitstuffed View Post

As for your question to me "Is a VSR/ACR/Combiner that difficult to understand?"
in your case it is, a Voltage Sensing Relay and an Automatic Charge Relay are not the same. Why else would they have different names?
A VSR is a relay that trips when a set cut-in voltage is exceeded an trips back when it drops to the cut-out voltage, with an hysteresis in the middle. Used for many applications such 12 volt fridge control or anything requiring to be switched when a specific 'voltage' is 'sensed' like running engine or as a simulated ignition signal. Its current capacity makes it suitable for battery combining but may chatter as voltage fluctuates between trip point hysterisis.
The ACRs are more complex with timers and ignition control and specifically designed for charging. They can remain combined when battery voltage drops due to combining a flat battery to a charging one by use of timers, a VSR would drop out.
they are the same thing, made by 2 different companys. the acr's also "chatter" when the banks are mismatched and the big one (house) is drained but they chatter every 30 secs off and on. timer doesn't really help much.
Old 06-06-2016, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
they are the same thing, made by 2 different companys. the acr's also "chatter" when the banks are mismatched and the big one (house) is drained but they chatter every 30 secs off and on. timer doesn't really help much.
VSRsand ACRs are just descriptive names.
They are 'objects' not trade names. Many companies make them including Narva, BEP, Projecta, Relaxan, Victron Energy as well as Blue Seas.
Fitted all of them at one time or another.

Chatter is caused by rapid voltage changes which travel through the trip points chattering rapidly like a machine gun. ACRs are protected by time lapse hysteresis (a differential set point between on and off) . What you describe as 'chatter' after 30 seconds is normal 'cycling'.

VSRs are completely different and can exhibit the cycling every second if not faster as they are not Charge Controllers. They just open and close at preset voltage levels and couldn't care less if they were connected to another battery, an audio amplifier, solar regulator, car alternator, wind generator, fridge, or an inverter.
How you can say "they are same" when one monitors battery charging only and other has multiple uses isn't correct is it.

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