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new garmin update and navionics

Old 01-28-2015, 05:16 AM
  #81  
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I voiced my opinion to Garmin and received the following reply.

"We are grateful to have enthusiastic customers who care about our products. Please share your great ideas with us at the following page on our website: http://www.garmin.com/ideas
This portal allows you to submit your idea directly to our innovation experts."


My suggestion is take five minutes and let them know...
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:18 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Srf_Cast View Post
I'm sorry if it's a basic question and one that has been discussed.
Looks like Garmin will not allow sonar charts to be displayed right?
What about regular Navionics Platinum+ which I have on a SD card? I want to upgrade from Lowrance to Garmins new unit and want to make sure my charts will work. If I can't use Navionics I will go with NSS evo2
Garmin doesn't support Navionics charts at all. Platinum, gold, sonar charts, none of them.
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Lone Ranger View Post
I agree! Unfortunately I just bought a 840xs about 6-8 months ago.Was on the fence with Garmin or Simrad,but at the time there were some growing pains with Lowrance and Simrad. I got the Navionics Beta chip,really don't have alot of time using it.But I like it better than Garmins so far.Wish I would have waited a bit,but I just bought the Boat and had Ants in my Pants to get it rigged out. Probably won't buy another Garmin product again,unless they really step up their Game.One thing I hate about the Garmin is when you go to Pan a chart ,there is a panel on the right side of the screen that blocks part of the chart! My old Raymarine C-80 doesn't do that.
You nailed it Lone Ranger. I have complained about this feature on my 1040 to Garmin. It drives me absolutely nuts. Saying it blocks part of the chart is an understatement, it blocks almost half the chart. I complained to Garmin and hope garmin allows more user customization of the screen. It is like Garmin made the words so large a blind bat could see them. Its hooked on phonics for charts. Another possible simple solution is a soft button for the panel to disappear. I mean how hard could it be???????????????????????
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:06 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by leftyNC View Post
You nailed it Lone Ranger. I have complained about this feature on my 1040 to Garmin. It drives me absolutely nuts. Saying it blocks part of the chart is an understatement, it blocks almost half the chart. I complained to Garmin and hope garmin allows more user customization of the screen. It is like Garmin made the words so large a blind bat could see them. Its hooked on phonics for charts. Another possible simple solution is a soft button for the panel to disappear. I mean how hard could it be???????????????????????
Maybe turn off the Inset Map in Settings>Chart Settings>Inset Map?
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:55 PM
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Most of the response from my inquiry to Garmin. I clipped it because the first part was unrelated to this topic. Not sure who to believe anymore. I added the bold highlight below.


"Garmin has not supported Navionics cartography in roughly 15 years, and essentially Navionics reversed engineered our map format to create an unauthorized product which could affect the safety of navigation, and we have experienced those chips causing our chartplotters to stop functioning.

We have been asking Navionics (for years) to license data to Garmin for inclusion in our products. They will not do it. Please write Navionics and request they license their data to Garmin. it is important to Garmin to maintain the integrity, accuracy and integration of map data with our chart plotters, and we want Navionics to be one more source of data that we use in our charts.

Thanks so much.

Best regards,
Lxxxxx
Garmin Cartography Admin"
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:00 PM
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What Garmin is saying is they want Navionics to provide their chart information so Garmin can use it to improve there Blue Charts programming. Navionics produces software, not hardware, they would be cutting there balls off if they did that. Garmin obviously is not looking to provide a platform for third party software providers. It is clear to me that both parties are holding their own ground, it's just business.
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:32 PM
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To all Gundog, equality and all others voicing their opinions, thank you. Good to know people still take action on what they want. So kudos to you!

Gundog, you are 100% correct on above statement. I cant disclose details but you are right.

Equality (Mark) thanks for posting. I find it funny actually that Garmin is sending back to us. I understand they have received a large amount of phone calls relating to this. I guess saying contact Navionics is their way of passing the buck and not deal with it. Well, people are pissed Garmin!

Also Garmin in fact licenses the software to create this third party software. They knew about it and we talked to them the whole way through. Now people want it and they release those statements. We sent out the beta tests (as many here received) and we have received very few if any it didn't work on. Reason it wont work "now" is software they just created to block it even after they saw the chart at shows and knew about it. maybe they think its too good? the idea that it "could" affect safety is just too dismiss the calls. ALL cartography companies have you agree to waivers when you sign on. I "could" develop Carpal Tunnel from this long message (for those of you that made it this far). We aren't trying to compete with Blue Charts just give more options to the community with recent mapping they don't have. Just like we do for everyone else. Again... silly. All of you have the right to complain based on these actions.
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:40 PM
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More:

Garmin’s marine sector is a vertically integrated segment, meaning we do not have to wait for others to develop new features and wait for their input to develop strategic future plans to offer the best plotters and products possible. Garmin does not want to be chained in that way. Navionics wants simply to make their charts work in our units (I suppose that is their idea of licensing), and that is not something we can do as it will take away much of our freedom to innovate. That is why Garmin stopped using Navionics data (called G-Charts) roughly 15 years ago in the first place.

Garmin would like to be able to license raw data from Navionics and use it like we would data from hydrographic offices around the world as we now do, but they are not willing to allow us to license their data in that way. Garmin, of course, would pay fees and royalties to them if they would do this and if a contract could be struck. We have wanted that for years, but they have, for years, refused to discuss it.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:34 PM
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In the above customer service response, Garmin's response is accurate. They have asked to license Navionics data, and there was a time when Navionics did work on Garmin plotters many years ago. What was left out is that this offer was in response to Navionics' requests to purchase the MPC licence. A licence they grant to OTHER mapping manufacturers... TRAK maps, Fiskekorte etc. but reject with Navionics. You can draw your own conclusions and suspicions as to why...

Garmin does support 3rd party mapping options, provided you are granted the MPC agreement.

This means that Garmin, who has built a reputation for being an open architecture with repsect to mapping in the outdoor industry, is no longer allowing its customers to truly decide what they want to view on plotters much like the way Apple has set rules with its iTunes store. It is unfortunate because ultimately customers get frustrated and migrate away, and ultimately the customers lose out when they no longer have mapping choices, but it is their decision. Simrad, Lowrance, Raymarine, Humminbird and others prefer to allow their customers choices while Garmin has decided that in the Navionics case it will limit them. We will have to live with that. I'm sure they have their reasons, which they have stated to their dealer base with the pending software release.

It is important to note, that if you decide to use your Navionics SonarCharts card and ignore the limit placed on you, Garmin reserves the right to punish you by voiding your warranty should you run into a problem with your unit. I will also add that inserting a Navionics card does not in any way alter your unit nor tamper with factory settings. It is no different than any other 3rd party card, for example your BLM hunting boundaries or Ontario Backroad GPS maps.

As someone mentioned, Navionics has typically chosen not to licence cartography data to other mapping manufacturers and you correctly surmised this was a business decision. Instead, we prefer to work within the partner agreements defined by each hardware manufacturer when the relationship allows.

In the mean time, Navionics will stay the course with SonarCharts options for those that are able to view them and we certainly appreciate your feedback.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:36 PM
  #90  
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to recap

-navionics used third party licensed software to legally develop the maps

-they told garmin what they were doing and garmin didn't object

-but navionics didn't get a direct license with garmin guaranteeing the maps could access the garmin platform in the future

-so when garmin saw the new product they cut navionics off their system

-garmin is happy to reconsider if navionics allows garmin to loot its one and only product line to improve garmin's competing product line.

i am reminded of a story about a guy who rented a beat up commercial fishing boat cheap. after one season he asked the owner if he could make some improvements, and the owner said sure, so he spent a bunch of time and money in the off season fixing up the boat. when the owner saw how nice the boat was, he doubled the rent on the spot and then sold it when the fisherman wouldn't pay it.

not quite the same, since garmin has not benefitted.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:43 PM
  #91  
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is there any way to do any kind of custom mapping with the new garmins ?
was watching a video last night , and a guy with a hummingbird was doing some pretty neat stuff with making his own maps
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:00 AM
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Equality... curious that yours still worked. We tested in office on the 4.0 and at first it worked but when we turned it off and then restarted, it no longer worked. "no longer work meaning" it would no longer read the card. Unit did not blow up.

on an earlier question to building your own maps... without highjacking here. Vexilar allows it with SonarCharts Live and Navionics App. SonarCharts with log recordings will work on just about any plotter and can sound your own lake by just going boating. Details on our website. Even Garmin can contribute logs to get better mapping. Yo ucan record and upload logs to Navionics and we will create/update the areas and release on the SonarCharts card which you update online. so long as you don't update with new software that is...
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Old 02-03-2015, 02:52 PM
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Did Garmin also make the same boneheaded move with Homeport software? My Navionics beta chip initially worked in Homeport, but now will not. Of course it will read its own Blue Chart chip.

I have my Homeport software setting such that it automatically updates to new versions as they come out and I assume that's what happened.
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Old 02-04-2015, 01:46 PM
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Mackerel, this past weekend I upgraded to a new version of HomePort for the Mac, I didn't even consider that it could eliminate the use of the beta chips - I will check & respond.

I recently upgraded from an old Furuno radar to a 24xhd radar dome. It came with a card to upgrade to the latest software. Does anyone know if I run this upgrade will it affect my 5212/5012 configuration and the use of the beta cards?

Jeff
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Old 02-04-2015, 02:01 PM
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I just updated my Homeport for Mac to version 2.2.9 and my Navionics beta still works fine.
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Old 02-04-2015, 05:34 PM
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I'm looking at Simrad NSS vs the new 7600 Garmin series (well, at the Miami boat show that is). Will be interesting to get their take on limiting map options. This too will impact my decision as to which way to go. Hopefully, user generated maps are on Garmin's horizon.
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Old 02-04-2015, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by vjthomas007 View Post
I'm looking at Simrad NSS vs the new 7600 Garmin series (well, at the Miami boat show that is). Will be interesting to get their take on limiting map options. This too will impact my decision as to which way to go. Hopefully, user generated maps are on Garmin's horizon.
This is exactly where I am as well, and I need to pull the trigger very soon for a new hull. I am hoping to see a Garmin 76xx at the Raleigh boat show this weekend. If there's not one available there for me to play with and I have to choose blind, I will have to go with the evo2 at this point, especially considering what I've seen in this thread. I fully understand business decisions and taking hard lines to protect yourself but I find Garmin's decision here to be short-sighted in a couple of regards. Win by playing to your strengths, not your fears.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mackerel View Post
Did Garmin also make the same boneheaded move with Homeport software? My Navionics beta chip initially worked in Homeport, but now will not. Of course it will read its own Blue Chart chip.

I have my Homeport software setting such that it automatically updates to new versions as they come out and I assume that's what happened.

My updated Homeport for Mac works with the beta card, something else must be the cause unless it's a PC issue?
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:42 PM
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No where does Garmin advertise their units will use other mapping companies software. What you bought is what you get. Why would a company who invests in their own mapping allow another companies to compete? Sounds like Garmin wants something in return which Navionics isn't willing to give. You would think Navionics would have had a contract with Garmin before they even started.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ShellbackCVA59 View Post
No where does Garmin advertise their units will use other mapping companies software. What you bought is what you get. Why would a company who invests in their own mapping allow another companies to compete? Sounds like Garmin wants something in return which Navionics isn't willing to give. You would think Navionics would have had a contract with Garmin before they even started.
bingo....
i heard from a good source that garmin was going to work with navionics on this, but nav wanted an unrealistic figure at the end on this deal, and garmin basically said take a hike.....
be nice if they could work it out for sure

in the end its us having to take a hike......
always seems to boil down to the almighty dollar in this world huh...
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