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B275w or B175HW and B175L

Old 10-12-2014, 08:35 AM
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Default B275w or B175HW and B175L

I have a new Contender 32ST. No transducer on it yet. Winter project..... Anyone install the B175s on stepped hull ? I know in front of 1st step. will be trailering boat on occasion, so that's why I am leaning towards the B175's . Installed 1 nss12 evo2 already , will ad second one over winter. Do I need the BSM3, or can I just go with 1 B175 to each NSS ? can always add bsm3 if performance is not good. will be fishing in 10 to 125 ft and then 400 to 3,000 ft on canyon ledge .Glassing in b275lhw does not seem like great idea. guy in my marina has b265 glassed in from factory that has minor cracks that need light repair often due to cracks in glass around ducer. I had B175s on my outrage 250 and had great results, but that was not a stepped hull. B175L was good up to 1,600 ft but scroll speed was slow at that depth. what other options should I look at ?
Old 10-12-2014, 10:16 AM
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If you pocket mount a PM265C-LH or a PM275-LHW you can run the High band to one evo2 and the Low band to the other evo2.


Using a dual frequency CHIRP is possible by using the Lowrance pigtail, 000-10046-001, and connecting it to a single frequency channel of the transducer.
This means a user can have a B265/PM265/PM275 etc and connect either the low or high of the element direct to the EVO 2 via the pigtail. Or, if the user has two EVO2 displays then the B265/PM 265/ PM275 can be used on both by having two Lowrance pigtails and wiring one for low and one for high frequency.
Keep in mind that when this is done XID needs to be disconnected and the display manually set up for the frequency bands being used.

..............................

I think the guy you were referring to with the glass cracks just had a poor job done...hundreds of hulls have had pocket mounts with no issues.

Last edited by semperfifishing; 10-12-2014 at 10:36 AM.
Old 10-12-2014, 01:17 PM
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Is the performance of the PM275lhW same as the 2 B175L & B175HW ?
Old 10-12-2014, 01:25 PM
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The High elements are identical, PM275LH-W has a bit better Low element.
Old 10-13-2014, 06:16 AM
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175's are a Big Mistake with BSM 2.
Old 10-13-2014, 06:29 AM
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B175H works now very well with BSM-2. B175L has improved quite a lot with the latest software.
Old 10-13-2014, 06:31 AM
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My SS175H loses bottom regularly (And that is not at speed) , and Digital depth read out will only show intermittently on Chirp.
Old 10-13-2014, 06:33 AM
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And yes. Latest software.
Old 10-13-2014, 07:17 AM
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B175H High element is identical to the one used in TM265LH, I was out testing BSM-2 with TM265LH this weekend at 400m+ with excellent results (What's shown from 30-80m are fish not noise). Are you sure your transducer(s) are correctly connected? Are the transducer(s) automatically recognized and shown with gray background in the sounder installation menu, not possible to manually modify? Some weeks ago one member complaining about the performance posted an image showing an incorrect transducer connection, I think there are some bad connections out there. Something else to notice is the red Impedance tap jumper wire. The wires supplied had to short deinsulated area which could cause the screw terminal to only touch the insulation.



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Here is an image from BCTony showing correct connections for a B175 pair.


Last edited by abbor; 10-13-2014 at 07:31 AM.
Old 10-13-2014, 10:09 AM
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What I have noticed with my BSM-2 and now BSM-3 with my 175LH transducer pair is that it seems to take a while for the system to adjust from one depth environment to another. I mean more than a few minutes. For example, in recent weeks I have been fishing relatively shallow water to my usual that is in depths 80’-120’ and have been very pleased with results from my sounder. Travelling to and from my fishing grounds has not occasioned me to be in more than about 350’ of water at any time. Everything has been fine – good fish signals, bottom tracking up to mid-30’s mph – after almost eighteen months of frustration I am, or was, beginning to think well of my sounder!

This last weekend I needed to travel across the Strait with depths up to about 1300’. Sea conditions were excellent just rolling swell. Starting off from about 20’ bottom tracking was lost at about 700’ on the way out at about 32mph and was a similar experience on the return journey. Yet at other times even with my preceding BSM-2 I have been able to track bottom up to about 1200’ or so.

(Accurate bottom reading that is – I have noticed that just before bottom tracking is lost false readings are given; usually over-depth and indeed this occurred last weekend – just before bottom tracking was lost in about 700’ of water the sounder was showing 1100’ if I recall.)

The occasions where my sounder have continued to track bottom to impressive depths of 1200’-1300’ have usually been when I have commenced travel from a substantial depth say 200’-300’ and/or have been fishing in substantial depth.

This maybe all so much rubbish, I am only trying to pass-on my experiences, but, from the outset it has seemed to me that my BSM 2/3 combo with 175LH has lacked what I can only describe as ‘power’ – whether technically this be pulse length, sensitivity or what. Every software update for BSM has brought about an improvement and hopefully we are not at the end of the road in this respect for the 1 kw transducers because I think I have had glimpses of what it can deliver which is impressive.

Last edited by BCTony; 10-13-2014 at 10:40 AM.
Old 10-13-2014, 11:00 AM
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Interesting observations. The last few times I've used BSM-2 I've started to think there may be some adaptive pulse length algorithm running, and that this take quite some time to stabilise. This is the reason why I have started to recommend using automatic sensitivity.


I think this is a good evidence that something is happening in the background. I was running automatic sensitivity during the adaption process. I've obviously messed with something else at the last part of the screen, I don't remember what. The double false bottoms are caused by too high Ping speed. The latest software version seems to be much better when it comes to Ping rate, double bottoms and vertical noise patterns.

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Old 10-13-2014, 11:56 AM
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Mind you I see that with the last screenshot you were running swv1.80; both swv1.82 and the current swv2.0 are much better particularly with low chirp.
Old 10-13-2014, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BCTony View Post
Mind you I see that with the last screenshot you were running swv1.80; both swv1.82 and the current swv2.0 are much better particularly with low chirp.
It's a screen shot from May or June, but it's a good illustration of the "learning".
Old 10-13-2014, 02:18 PM
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Default Pretty sure its correct

Pretty sure its correct
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Old 10-13-2014, 04:32 PM
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Your wiring is according to the latest recommendations from Simrad. BCTony and I are following the original instructions and use impedance tap Z2 instead of Z1 for the High channel.
Old 10-13-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by abbor View Post
Your wiring is according to the latest recommendations from Simrad. BCTony and I are following the original instructions and use impedance tap Z2 instead of Z1 for the High channel.
The photo is of the connections as were to my BSM-2. Now that I have a BSM-3 with plugs instead of bare wire, installed by my dealer, I am not sure quite what the connections are. At one stage Simrad suggested we change the impedance jumper from what I have shown to, I believe, that which Neptunedeep6 is showing. Quite peculiar results followed so the procedure was quickly abandoned, but, I now wonder, if more time should have been allowed for the system to perhaps adjust itself.
Old 07-28-2015, 08:43 AM
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I have the BSM-3 with B175H and B175L tranducers. loosing bottom at anything over 300ft and it takes a while to come back to any reading even after coming back to shallower water.

Spoke with SIMRAD, and they suggest the IMp Sel to Z1 jumper on low and high. But this is only recomended in BSM-2 intallers guide and nothing about it in BSM-3 guide.

Will it hurt system to try? How long should it be tested and giving to "learn"?
Old 07-28-2015, 11:53 AM
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Since writing my comments contained earlier in this thread I have changed my system somewhat. I now have 175HW connected to SonarHub (swv1.17) 175M connected to Evo2 and TM265LH connected to BSM3.

Prior to making the change I had finally been getting great performance from 175H with BSM3 (swv2.0) and pretty good performance from 175L. This was after a year of misery with considerably subpar performance during which time I had convinced myself that 175HW and 175M was the way to go. I was trading-in what equipment I did not need, but fearful of perhaps losing the great High Chirp performance, at the last minute decided to keep the BSM3 and add a TM265LH (as this was available at a great price through Semperfifishing).

It is now my opinion that the 1 kHz transducers operate better with SonarHub and/or Evo2 than with BSM2/3. The 175HW connected to SonarHub performs fantastically and I am very pleased with 175M connected to Evo2.

The TM265LH connected to BSM3 now performs as well as my previous 175LH pair. Low Chirp perhaps performs a little better but I have not spent enough time to conclude. What I did notice was some strange behaviour similar to that I had noticed earlier with the previous transducers. When first connected the Low did not perform very well – in fact on the second day all that was shown was a black line similar to a depth line causing me to wonder if the pigtail connections were incorrect. I abandoned and went back to my new toys. When I next used BSM3 / TM265LH the screen looked normal and I played with settings settling on Ping Rates: 16 and TVG: 3-6 depending. At these settings I found that even though my transducer is placed in an area of great turbulence between twin outboard propellers that as long as I do not accelerate too harshly that bottom can be tracked up to about 23mph.

It seems to me that the BSM2/3 takes quite some time to configure itself. While the technical experts might scoff, it seems to me that this occurs over a few days rather than hours. Perhaps I should say a few outings. Also, I have found with both BSM2 and BSM3 with the 175LH pair and 265LH that reducing the ping rate and experimenting in the range 12-18 proved beneficial. I seem to have homed-in on around 16. Noise Rejection I am able to run either Off or Low.

In settled conditions I can track bottom with the 175HW at about 40mph to about 700’ (the 175H was a little better sometimes to 900’+ on a good day). When bottom is lost all my transducers now snap back with a depth reading when speed is reduced and/or shallower water.

One final point and following suggestion from Abbor, I switched from Manual Gain to Auto Gain with +/- Offset and found this beneficial.

Hope this helps – good luck!
Old 07-28-2015, 11:57 AM
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Old 08-08-2015, 02:39 PM
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Default Bsm + r509lh = big drama

I have owned a BSM 2 + R509LH through hull ducer for over 1 year now and I have been a reader of the forum for months now. I have squeezed out every bit of information out of Google and I am still unhappy.

My setup:

The boat is in Seychelles islands, Indian Ocean, tropical climate. Simrad NSO15, NSE12, NSE8, BSM 2, R509LH. All software has been updated in all units, plus factory reset done

The original version 1.5 was a nightmare: FF losing bottom, the auto gain had to be set to -5 to get a readable screen, the low band didn't work at all. So it is true that Navico introduced a very raw product that didn't work. Now, I feel like I have already overcome a bunch of obstacles, yet, still a long way to go: upgraded the software to 2.0 and changed the jumpers to Z1 per Navico's recommendations, moved the transducer forward of the shafts (40'inboard diesel) on the starboard side next to the keel. Before that the ducer was aft, slightly forward of the prop on the starboard side. That was all done in one go and after that the situation noticeably improved.
Now the unit can reacquire depth easily every time. I can now use the low frequency band. I have read all Abbor's suggestions as well as everything else on this forum, however, here are my outstanding issues with the system:

1) My biggest concern is image clarity and quality. I feel like there is too much noise/clutter and too little gain. I feel like the resolution of the image in general is very low compared to what I see on this forum. Is that because I have the older NSO and you all have the NSS evo 2? Everything is pixelated, jagged. The bottom returns seem weak, fish returns are weak, yet plenty of noise from what seems to be particles or plankton. I have discovered that 130khz is the only freq that produces arches and a better image. High Chirp is significantly worse, low/lowest chirps are even worse. I do see fish in up to 100 meters (300'), deeper - haven't seen fish yet. I doubt I can see fish with the kind of clarity and resolution I am having. I have marked bottom in 2000 feet in lowest chirp, or 28 khz, i don't recall, however, the bottom line is sometimes also jagged and not smooth so it is hard to see any fish unless it is a whale, I would guess.
Also, when I am using a fixed freq like 28KHZ or 38KHZ, it takes a long time to get the unit to normalize the settings. Sometimes it doesn't happen and the screen gets filled with clutter, what I do then is range out and sometimes that helps but the resolution gets even worse and I haven't had much success with lower frequencies. I tried to use low / lowest chirp even in 150' of water mainly to widen the cone angle.

The image does get a little better when the boat is drifting, but still not even close to Abbor's screenshots. The resolution is simply 2 or 4 times as little. The demo seems to have similar kind of resolution, so maybe it is the NSO/NSE.


My settings:
TVG = 0-3
COLOR=38-40
GAIN=AUTO(-4-3 would be better for clutter but targets get weaker, so perhaps the color needs to go up to 45 or so)
PING = MAX (tried lower settings without immediate noticeable effect)
palette no. 3 (the blue one is very dim on the NSO15 monitor, NSE12 is much brighter)

2) Now I lose all reading at 15+ knots (with the old tran. placement, I could read the depth up to 25 knots, I believe). This is regardless of what frequency I use, chirp or fixed. There is a water intake about 2 meters forward of the ducer from where it is now, so that is my only theory.

3) Also, when the boat is in the marina in around 5 meters (15') of water, there are constant targets flowing on the screen in high chirp and other high frequencies (less so in low freq.), they look like fish (red color filled blobs). The water is murky, visibility is bad and there are fish around, but the targets don't look like arches. Rather long blob that are sometimes stretched and take half the length of the screen. Offshore, the weather and plankton quantities are critical to the image. In 15 knots of wind and 4 footers, the image is terrible with noise all over the place and the bottom returns are inconsistent. I have tried lowering the PING but didn't notice any immediate effect.

CONCLUSION
Overall, I feel like I made a mistake. I had an idea of buying FCV1150 to use it with R509LH and then buying a sonarhub+B175M for the simrad system. I am in a remote location and everything has to be ordered at a significant cost, plus, there is no SIMRAD rep on the islands. My attempts to get support over the phone from Navico didn't help much. Once a guy told me the R509LH was a bad choice for BSM-2 (their website specifically listed R509 as the recommended ducer for BSM-2) and that B265LH was a good one. Now they're telling me they are working on a new update. Any help would be very much appreciated.
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