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Need Help Garmin or Simrad

Old 10-11-2014, 06:25 PM
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Question Need Help Garmin or Simrad

I have been using Garmin electronics on my bay charter boats for years and I am very happy with the performance. So now that we are getting ready to upgrade electronics on our offshore boats I am unsure which way to go. I have been told by other captains that Garmin's CHIRP sucks and causes screens to lock as well as not marking fish in deep waters whilw drifting for tuna and swords. I was told Simrad was a better way to go however I have no experience with these units with the exception of running boats in the ditch. I am looking at the Simrad NSS or NSSevo series and Garmin's 6200 or 7200 series. Any information would be appericated.
Old 10-11-2014, 06:51 PM
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A third option for marking swords deep....

For the sonar..use a Furuno FCV 295 and a Airmar CHIRP transducer .

http://www.airmartechnology.com/uplo...20Sounders.pdf
Old 10-11-2014, 11:11 PM
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If you can, wait. Garmin is introducing a whole slew of new products at Ft. Lauderdale in less than 3 weeks.

See:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-e...vs-garmin.html

http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-e...oming-out.html
Old 10-11-2014, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by lingcod View Post
If you can, wait. Garmin is introducing a whole slew of new products at Ft. Lauderdale in less than 3 weeks.

See:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-e...vs-garmin.html

http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-e...oming-out.html
yes and they probably wont ship until? Feb/March/April/May/June/July 2015.....

Right now Simrad NSS Evo2 are best bang for the buck. Garmins are great and I do hope their new releases will fill the void between 7x1 series and 8000 series touch models.

But my Garmin 8008 is... almost TWICE as deep as my Simrad NSS12 Evo2.... and that is due to Garmin having a HUGE amount of cooling fins on their devices. Much more than you would expect from a device that use < 2-3 Amp.
Old 10-12-2014, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kaz911 View Post
yes and they probably wont ship until? Feb/March/April/May/June/July 2015.....

Right now Simrad NSS Evo2 are best bang for the buck. Garmins are great and I do hope their new releases will fill the void between 7x1 series and 8000 series touch models.

But my Garmin 8008 is... almost TWICE as deep as my Simrad NSS12 Evo2.... and that is due to Garmin having a HUGE amount of cooling fins on their devices. Much more than you would expect from a device that use < 2-3 Amp.
x1. Right now the Evo2 is the best bang for your money in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I like Garmin and have always had them. I have a 4212 on my boat now and it does everything that I need it to. It definitely is very deep. We had to increase the thickness of our dash panel to have enough clearance in the back. Right now if I was upgrading I'd have to go Simrad.
Old 10-12-2014, 06:05 PM
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I just went through the same decision and decided to stick with Garmin. I was torn between the Evo2 7" and the 840xs and I just didnt care for the layout of the simrad and how it operated. I spoke to several people that mentioned Simrad was definitely a "light" chirp unit and I was not that impressed with Simrads sidescan when compared to Garmins. That being said, Simrad was a much cheaper alternative, I just didn't want to have any regrets and the 840xs was what I had been wanting for a while.
Old 10-12-2014, 06:30 PM
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I guess more research is in order. Just wish there large displays worked as well as my 840 and 547. I like Garmin but don't want to make a 15 grand mistake with the wrong product.
Old 10-12-2014, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt. Rob Baylor View Post
I guess more research is in order. Just wish there large displays worked as well as my 840 and 547. I like Garmin but don't want to make a 15 grand mistake with the wrong product.
Can you wait until about February to install the new equipment?
Old 10-12-2014, 08:29 PM
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Simrad chartplotter and Furuno sounder...best of both worlds
Old 10-12-2014, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubba60tackle View Post
I just went through the same decision and decided to stick with Garmin. I was torn between the Evo2 7" and the 840xs and I just didnt care for the layout of the simrad and how it operated. I spoke to several people that mentioned Simrad was definitely a "light" chirp unit and I was not that impressed with Simrads sidescan when compared to Garmins. That being said, Simrad was a much cheaper alternative, I just didn't want to have any regrets and the 840xs was what I had been wanting for a while.
Simrad comes with everything "in the box" - so Evo2's have side scan/downscan and "light chirp" built in. Garmin has only Light Chirp built in. So for a 840xs to do "side scan" you need a GVC 10 box (additional $600)

"Full Chirp" for Simrad = BSM2/3 - Full Chirp for Garmin = GSD 26. Both around the $2000 mark.

Fishton posted a blog the other day - and posted pictures of both Garmin Chirp box (GVC 10) and HDS 12. Resolution and quality seems pretty much the same. Garmin's has wider range on structure scan to the sides.

Simrad 4G Radar is better for close-up navigation that Garmin xHD. Garmin is probably better on the long range. But I have only played around with the 24 xHD for a short time. And with radar at < 12-16' in height the ultra long range is only applicable for weather detection or very tall targets/land masses.

Radar targets 50' high can be detected at a radar mounted at 16' at a range of 14 miles. If target is 500' high - range would be around 32 miles. That has nothing to do with the radar itself - it is because of the earth curvature.

I love my Garmin 8008 - but I love my 2 x NSS12 Evo2's a lot more. My Garmin is sitting on a shelf doing nothing.

Garmin only supports Garmin maps - where Simrad supports a LOT of different types of Maps.

The ONLY thing I think Garmin in reality does a lot better is Auto Guidance. But Auto Guidance created routes will ONLY work with Garmin Auto Pilots as Garmin "scrambles" the route data into custom NMEA 2000 sentences/language, which only Garmin Auto pilots can understand. That I consider really bad karma...

But what you should do - is find a place to play with both types of systems.

And then compare the map quality for the area you are in. Where I am Garmin is 8 years+ behind - where my Navionics maps for NSS12 is only a couple of years behind.

So before spending $15k - spend $500 of it on a ticket to somewhere you can see both and play with both.....
Old 10-13-2014, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Bubba60tackle View Post
I just went through the same decision and decided to stick with Garmin. I was torn between the Evo2 7" and the 840xs and I just didnt care for the layout of the simrad and how it operated. I spoke to several people that mentioned Simrad was definitely a "light" chirp unit and I was not that impressed with Simrads sidescan when compared to Garmins. That being said, Simrad was a much cheaper alternative, I just didn't want to have any regrets and the 840xs was what I had been wanting for a while.
The CHIRP sounder integrated in NSS Evo2 (which is identical to SonarHub) is definitely not light. It has significantly better sensitivity than 1-channel Garmin CHIRP and is with a 600W or 1kW CHIRP sounder comparable or better than BSM-2 & 3. The only limitation is that this is a one channel sounder. I have BSM-2, NSS Evo2 and SonarHub and I run SonarHub as my main sounder sounder. I've also studied at the transmitted signals from the different sounders using an oscilloscope and the signal levels and pulse lengths (which is the two factors in addition to transducer sensitivity deciding the transmitted acoustic energy) transmitted by Simrad single channel CHIRP is far from being light.


The term CHIRP "light" as used by kaz911 should in my opinion be reserved for units like Raymarine DragonFly and CP100 and Lowrance Elite CHIRP. These are using low cost relatively narrow band transducers which is limiting bot sensitivity and resolution. Any CHIRP system using Airmar CHIRP transducers I would classify simply as single channel or dual channel CHIRP.
Old 10-13-2014, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by abbor View Post
The CHIRP sounder integrated in NSS Evo2 (which is identical to SonarHub) is definitely not light. It has significantly better sensitivity than 1-channel Garmin CHIRP and is with a 600W or 1kW CHIRP sounder comparable or better than BSM-2 & 3. The only limitation is that this is a one channel sounder. I have BSM-2, NSS Evo2 and SonarHub and I run SonarHub as my main sounder sounder. I've also studied at the transmitted signals from the different sounders using an oscilloscope and the signal levels and pulse lengths (which is the two factors in addition to transducer sensitivity deciding the transmitted acoustic energy) transmitted by Simrad single channel CHIRP is far from being light.


The term CHIRP "light" as used by kaz911 should in my opinion be reserved for units like Raymarine DragonFly and CP100 and Lowrance Elite CHIRP. These are using low cost relatively narrow band transducers which is limiting bot sensitivity and resolution. Any CHIRP system using Airmar CHIRP transducers I would classify simply as single channel or dual channel CHIRP.
Sorry - I was only highlighting "light" as that was what Bubba called them I don't consider them light but single channel chirp...

Abbor - i'm no sounder expert - but what voltage are they spitting out? I would like to check with my scope and I do have some high voltage differential probes.
Old 10-13-2014, 07:11 AM
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I have used a ±700V differential probe which is at the limit. I've measured close to 1500V peak to peak.
Old 10-13-2014, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by abbor View Post
I have used a ±700V differential probe which is at the limit. I've measured close to 1500V peak to peak.
thanks
Old 10-13-2014, 08:21 AM
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I can wait if it will do more to guarantee a better set of electronics. My intent was to use one brand for continuity. Once our center console is done then we will move to our sportfish. Looks like Simrad is winning this debate. Living in the boonies along the Texas coast does not afford many opportunities to have hands on with much of anything.
Old 10-13-2014, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Capt. Rob Baylor View Post
I can wait if it will do more to guarantee a better set of electronics. My intent was to use one brand for continuity. Once our center console is done then we will move to our sportfish. Looks like Simrad is winning this debate. Living in the boonies along the Texas coast does not afford many opportunities to have hands on with much of anything.
You can check out Navionics Map quality on Navionics website. They "publish" their maps so you can see them. So take out a few examples of where you fish in Texas - do screenshots - then go to someone with Garmin G2 Vision and check same area.

That would be my "most important" factor for choosing. But I do also think right now Simrad is better at "cross" platform compatibility. Garmin is a bit a mess there at the moment - like GSD-26 does not work with 840xs????
Old 10-13-2014, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Capt. Rob Baylor View Post
I can wait if it will do more to guarantee a better set of electronics. My intent was to use one brand for continuity. Once our center console is done then we will move to our sportfish. Looks like Simrad is winning this debate. Living in the boonies along the Texas coast does not afford many opportunities to have hands on with much of anything.
Talk to Jeff from cha-ching charters, or better yet stop over and look at his setup. He Is a simrad rep so he is biased, but has the best sounder setup I have ever seen.
Old 10-13-2014, 01:36 PM
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I've had Garmin, good units. I was back and forth between Garmin and Simrad; Simrad won.
Old 10-13-2014, 06:41 PM
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Doesn't Jeff keep that boat at Pelican Point?

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