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Sounder dilemma

Old 09-29-2014, 02:36 AM
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Default Sounder dilemma

Hi looking for some advice on my sounder setup

Currently running simrad nss8/nss12 with bsm1 and a pair of tilted element ss264n transducers.

Whilst i am getting great bottom reading at speed, the detection of fish close to the bottom (at slow sounding speed) in 180ft to 360ft is less than impressive. In particular i am consistently getting shows on the bottom but not enough sensitivity to detect small from large targets. Colour pallette doesnt seem to help and adjusting the gain doesnt provide any more detail. I am at the crossroads with the system

1. Is there something fundamentally wrong with the setup or the dumb pilot
2. Look at an upgrade to the firmware eg upgrade to sonarhub/chirp ducer
3. Keep the current ducers and swap to another sounder to replace the nss8 eg furuno 587/295 which in my area are proven performers for my type of application

Thanks in advance for advice
Jeff
Old 09-29-2014, 07:44 AM
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Bsm-2!
Old 09-29-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BoemarineBrian View Post
Bsm-2!
Are the BSM2 priced below the BSM3?
Old 09-29-2014, 08:56 AM
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Are you using 50kHz, 200kHz or both?

Have you tried to use NSS8 as sounder module. NSS8 with the latest software is running a newer and probably improved sounder software compared to BSM-1. Except from this BSM-1 and the integrated NSS sounders are the same.

Your 200kHz transducer has 90 ohm impedance which is probably a bit on the low side for BSM-1 and NSS. Running your current transducers with BSM-2, as proposed by Brian, should produce improved results since this one has much better drive capabilities.

Another alternative is to get SonarHub. It is improved compared to BSM-1/NSS also for fixed frequency operation. Your transducers are broadband so they can be CHIRPed with SonarHub. It should give 25kHz CHIRP bandwidth for High CHIRP and 12.5kHz for Low CHIRP, both sufficient for acceptable resolution. I don't know if the diplexers are integrated in the transducers or in the Y-cabling and I don't know the specs of the diplexer so this may of course change this picture a bit.
Old 09-30-2014, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by abbor View Post
Are you using 50kHz, 200kHz or both?

Have you tried to use NSS8 as sounder module. NSS8 with the latest software is running a newer and probably improved sounder software compared to BSM-1. Except from this BSM-1 and the integrated NSS sounders are the same.

Your 200kHz transducer has 90 ohm impedance which is probably a bit on the low side for BSM-1 and NSS. Running your current transducers with BSM-2, as proposed by Brian, should produce improved results since this one has much better drive capabilities.

Another alternative is to get SonarHub. It is improved compared to BSM-1/NSS also for fixed frequency operation. Your transducers are broadband so they can be CHIRPed with SonarHub. It should give 25kHz CHIRP bandwidth for High CHIRP and 12.5kHz for Low CHIRP, both sufficient for acceptable resolution. I don't know if the diplexers are integrated in the transducers or in the Y-cabling and I don't know the specs of the diplexer so this may of course change this picture a bit.
I generally try both transducers (200 and 50) once i get into those depths and see what is working better for me. I have the pair connected via the pigtail connection with only one transducer lead into the bsm-1.

Can you expand on your comment about the extra 'drive' from the bsm2? Are you saying that that the bsm2 is a better conventional pulse black box than the bsm1?

I have not upgraded the nss-8 software for probably 12 months so your idea to try the upgrade via the nss8 sounder module is a good one. I must admit the picture i am currently able to get from the nss8 and inbuilt 'bsm' is not as good as the nss12 via the bsm1 so you may be onto something.

I guess the dilemma i have is what will be the best bang for buck?

Obviously i will try the nss8 software upgrade first
Second is a big call. Spend the big $$$ om the bsm2 or the sonarhub at less than a third the cost?
Third i can ditch the nss8 and get a furuno 587 and hook up to the ss264n's if that is possible and get the performance i am looking for about 2x the sonarhub cost and a bit over half the cost of the bsm2. I would prefer to stick with the nss system but it is frustrating at the moment

Last edited by Jeff72; 09-30-2014 at 03:37 AM. Reason: Grammar error
Old 09-30-2014, 04:59 AM
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BSM-2 is a much better fishfinder than BSM-1 also in fixed frequency mode. BSM-2 is in addition to being a CHIRP sounder designed to work with older Simrad (pre Navico) transducers with very low impedance (75 ohm) so it's well suited for driving low impedance loads (like SS264n 200kHz). I checked the impedance for SS264n at the Airmar pages, but it seems as the numbers listed for both SS264n and B260 are for non-diplexed versions (250 ohm for 50kHz and 90 ohm for 200kHz, I think the diplexer version has an impedance of about 300 ohm for 200khz and no change for 50 kHz). So with a diplexer BSM-1 and NSS should not struggle with these transducers.

So the first thing to do is to find out is if your transducers have a diplexer or not. Gil (THT member Semperfifishing which is a dealer) should be able to help you with this.

In case you don't have a diplexer you need an external diplexer to use the transducers with BSM-1 (or FCV-587)

http://www.starmarinedepot.com/airma...-diplexer.html

BSM-2 will allow you to run both transducers at the same time without a diplexer. If you have the Furuno version of SS264n without diplexer you need minium a FCV-295 from Furuno to run without diplexer. SonarHub should also be able to run the transducers without diplexer.
Old 09-30-2014, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by stiletto View Post
Are the BSM2 priced below the BSM3?
No, The BSM2 is approx $250 more.
Old 09-30-2014, 07:32 AM
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So why don't you recommended BSM-3?

Don't you like the color
Old 09-30-2014, 08:53 AM
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reds for commies!
Old 09-30-2014, 09:08 AM
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A typical Soviet era car?

Old 10-01-2014, 03:18 AM
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Nah Abbor the reds are different shades!

Seriously though is the bsm2 or the bsm3 better? As far as i knew the bsm3 was more of a plug and play unit vs the bsm2.

Had a look at the link to the diplexer and there is definitely not one of those installed.

As far as the transducers the following numbers are on them if this helps identify them

20-695-01 50kHz
20-688-01 200kHz
Old 10-01-2014, 05:14 AM
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Seems like his current setup should be getting the job done. Upgrading to BSM3 might alleviate it, but I don't understand why he can't do it with with his current setup. Something ain't right. The SS164 should be kicking butt at those depths.
Old 10-01-2014, 06:17 AM
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I don't get any match on your model numbers

41-348-1-01 is the 200kHz 20 degree version version with diplexer
The corresponding 50kHz is 41-349-1-01.

The wiring diagram for 41-348-1-01 is showing the diplexer:

http://www.airmartechnology.com/uplo...ams/91_930.pdf

Does your connector have Airmar mix and match type connectors or Furuno 10-pin or no connector at all? Furuno 10 pin has sockets i 3 rows, Airmar has pins evenly distributed.

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