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Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

Old 08-03-2005, 07:23 AM
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Default Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

On a Garmin 178C internal antena GPS, is there anything sticking out (like a cell phone antenna has) that would not allow me to flush mount it? The Garmin website doesn't show any pictures of a interal antenna unit and when I called there was a 40 minute wait to talk with a Garmin representative. Thanks.
Old 08-03-2005, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

you cant flush mount it...the antenna will be blocked
if you want to flush mount get the external antenna
Old 08-03-2005, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

A 40-minute wait to speak with a rep would be a big red flag for me.
Old 08-03-2005, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

Simple answer is no you cannot flush mount it, and still use the internal antenna
look at the back of your unit there is a connection for a external antenna use that and this antenna
http://shop.garmin.com/accessory.jsp...0%2D00174%2D00
also you will need an antenna mount of some sort ...

John
Old 08-03-2005, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

you don't need that large an antenna....you can get: http://shop.garmin.com/accessory.jsp...0%2D10052%2D04

Just glue/epoxy it to any flat suface...I have one on my hardtop and it works pefectly, all the time....in salt water environment for 6 years. No antenna mount, nothing sticking up....you can mount it anywhere there is a clear view of the sky.
Old 08-03-2005, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

There is a lot of mis-conception on where a GPS antenna needs to be located. Back in the early 1990's when GPS's started to become popular I started out like everyone thinking the GPS antenna needed to be mounted on at least a stubby pole mount on your top (ie. above most everything on the boat so it had a clear view of the sky) and this was true with some manufacturers antennas who originally provided antennas that would receive on only 2 3, 4, 6, etc., channels. But there have been LOTS of advances and improvement in GPS antenna receiving ability over the past 10 years, with most manufacturers today providing a minimum of 10-12 channel antennas with vastly improved receiving ability. Coupled with more satellites in the sky (especially over coastal US waters), you can now mount a GPS antenna almost anywhere as long as it is not under a metal roof.

For example. I have mounted dozens of GPS antennas under the gunnels of boats. That's right, I glue the hockey puck size GPS antenna right side up, under the gunnel. First I mount the unit, and then tape the antenna under the gunnel and turn the unit on to make sure it can acquire satellite signals (<- who knows, maybe the boat manufacture installed some aluminum plates in the gunnels to stiffen the gunnels?), but have never had a problem with reception with this temporary taped basis. Then it's time for the 5200 spread liberally on top of the hockey puck antenna, stick the antenna in the selected spot under the gunnel and hold it in place with silver 1000mph tape for a couple of days until the 5200 takes a set. Then remove the tape and you're finished & the GPS, antenna, etc., works like a champ. Some of my installations have been on small bay boats where under the gunnel mounting is not practical & in these cases I have mounted the antenna the same way, only under the console - under the console, not on top, although on top obviously also works - but with no mounting bracket, just siliconed or 5200'd on top or under the console. Again, this method works just as well as an antenna mounted on top of your top.

So can you flush mount a GPS with a built in antenna? Dono, but my gut feeling is yes you can. The way to find out is to get under your console and wire the unit to a power source. Then tape, tie with string, hold the unit in your hand, or otherwise stick the unit against the back of the panel on a temporary basis where you're thinking of flush mounting it. Turn it on and see what happens, keeping in mind that the first acquisition always takes longer unless you can pre-program in your approximate position. <- if you do this test, please return here and post your results.
Old 08-03-2005, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

First light--thats an interesting idea. I just purchased a Garmin 178C external, and hadn't even thought of trying it in a storage area before I mounted the antenna. Trying it can't hurt, and if it doesn't work, I'm stuck drilling holes anyway.

Edit--

And Thunt--if you are thinking of doing it with your 178 internal, it won't physically work as there is no way to mount the unit. The hole you would have to cut and the outside case of the external antenna version is different than the internal version, and you would have a gap..and no way to secure the unit.
Old 08-04-2005, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

An external antenna will ALWAYS be the most reliable as far as signal recpetion is concerned and especially where WAAS reception is required. Internal works but it is ALWAYS a compromise. There has been absolutely no change in the design of people and skippers/passengers standing over dash mounted units are more often than not an obstruction, the amount of obstruction will vary depending.

The 12 channel receiver is a non arguement as there is never 12 satellites available "all the time" and in any case accuracy is primarily based on geometry and not number of satellites so if the skipper/passenger blots out 40% of the view then whatever satellites are received could/might/can provide a position solution but it could be a rather poor solution. GPS being a dynamic system there is no hard and fast rule as far as satellite geometry/reception is concerned. For this reason an antenna that has an unobstructed 360 degree view of the sky above about 10 degrees will at least provide some/more guarantee with regard recpetion. An internal antenna is always going to be a compromise.

Also don't see the reasoning/argument in there being more satellites in the sky over coastal waters? Like almost anywhere in the world it depends on the constellation to some extent but also the time of day.

Cheers, Kerry.
Old 08-04-2005, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

Kerry - 8/4/2005 4:20 AM Also don't see the reasoning/argument in there being more satellites in the sky over coastal waters? Like almost anywhere in the world it depends on the constellation to some extent but also the time of day. Cheers, Kerry.
Kerry - FYI, the US Government (our NOAA) has placed two addition satellites in geostationary orbit over coastal US waters. Otherwise you are correct, as usual.

BTW, what's going on with your compadre Trouty these days?
Old 08-04-2005, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

Yes but both those satellites are WAAS satellites and being geostationary and sitting over the equator is more of a reason to go for an external if expecting to use WAAS with any degree of confidence, especially in some of the marginal low horizon areas. Actually the 2 satellites that transmit WAAS corrections are Inmasats and not owned or operated by the US gov as such, just partly leased. There is/was talk of a third WAAS satellite as the current 2 are the weak link in the whole system. But then with WAAS failing to meet planned expectations and budget cuts due to WAAS being "technology immature" who knows what will happen with it.

These 2 inmasats can also act like "ordinary" GPS satellites but I'm not aware the feature as ever been turned on, apart from some intiial testing?

As for Trouty? have absolutely no idea, it's as if he's fallen off into one of his black holes!

Cheers, Kerry.
Old 08-05-2005, 01:56 PM
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Default RE: Can you flush mount internal antenna GPS?

thunt55 - 8/3/2005 7:23 AM

On a Garmin 178C internal antena GPS, is there anything sticking out (like a cell phone antenna has) that would not allow me to flush mount it? The Garmin website doesn't show any pictures of a interal antenna unit and when I called there was a 40 minute wait to talk with a Garmin representative. Thanks.
You can mount it flush but you would need to use starboard as a backing. The antena is round at the top and does not allow you to mount it. I have done it.

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