Go Back  The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > Marine Electronics Forum
Reload this Page >

Simrad BSM-2 Issues in deep water - Wrong Settings?

Notices

Simrad BSM-2 Issues in deep water - Wrong Settings?

Old 08-04-2013, 12:14 PM
  #1  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 174
Default Simrad BSM-2 Issues in deep water - Wrong Settings?

Hey Guys,

I have a full Simrad system that I love. I have two NSS, 4G radar, BSM2, AP24 and Sonic hub.

The chirp sounder works AWESOME as long is it can see the bottom. Inshore, bottom fishing and even deep dropping for swords works great.

When I go offshore fishing here where the water is 6000-10000 feet deep I get all kinds of weird issues.

- I get noise at different depths off and on. I can tell it's noise and not thermocline or bait because it has very hard edges (see pic)

Name:  photo.JPG
Views: 1619
Size:  623.7 KB

Or I get "bands" of noise that don't go away even when I run to a new location.

Name:  photo[1].JPG
Views: 1577
Size:  707.6 KB

- When I do get tuna under the boat the marks are TINY. They look like little matchsticks, not arches or colored blobs like on other meters. They are very hard to see, let alone trying to determine species, etc.

The settings I have been using are as follows.

Gain - Auto +5 to -5
Color - 35
TVG - 15
Ping Speed - Tried everything from 5 to Max with no noticeable difference
Noise limiter - Tried Low - Medium - High
Range - 250 ft.

I have a BSM2 paired with a 265LH transducer. I am running v1.5 on the BSM and the latest software for the NSS.

I have tried EVERYTHING I can think of to make this thing work offshore with with little luck. The sounder is almost useless once I get out in the deep water.

I have also talked to a few other guys that have very similar issues and I'm pretty sure it's not just me.

I read a thread here on THT that had some of the settings other guys were using and they were very different from mine (running manual gain, etc) and reporting good results after upgrading the software.

I'd love to hear your experiences and settings for offshore use.

Thanks in advance.
gatogordo is offline  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:11 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 13,589
Default

The noise you see is most probably caused by bottom returns. The only way to get rid of it is by changing the pulse repetition rate, this can be done by changing range or by adjusting the Ping control.

Try first to set the Range to 500' and use zoom to look at part of the water column you are interested in. This will also increase the pulse length (putting more energy into the water)

Try to keep Ping in the range 10 to Max (20). Start at 20 and reduce by one step at a time. By changing the ping rate by one step the noise can suddenly disappear. If the depth changes the Ping rate may have to be adjusted again.

Keep TVG in the range 1-4, 15 is removing far too much information in the upper part of the water column.

Keep the noise limiter at Low.

Use manual gain, automatic gain is close to useless when you don't have bottom contact. You need to experiment to find the correct values. Color gain of 35 sounds OK.

The coming BSM-2 software will have improved performance for your application
abbor is offline  
Old 08-04-2013, 08:01 PM
  #3  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC/Wrightsville Beach, NC
Posts: 1,591
Default

what is TVG?

thanks
beachnut53 is offline  
Old 08-04-2013, 08:43 PM
  #4  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 174
Default

TVG=Clarity

It cleans up the upper water column.
gatogordo is offline  
Old 08-04-2013, 08:48 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Covington, La.
Posts: 269
Default

There is a bug somewhere in the software(possibly hardware) where you will see that kind of stuff, when the range is set to auto... I'm not 100% certain this is your case, but in the first screenshot, being that it cannot find bottom; I would say that this may be your issue....

For a work-a-round.... guesstimate your depth(use chart data), then manually set your chirp depth to 10'+ of what you "should" be in.... Once it picks up the bottom and starts to look right, then you can put it back into auto
DawgBone is offline  
Old 08-04-2013, 08:58 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Covington, La.
Posts: 269
Default

Looking at it again, even your second screenshot doesn't mark bottom...

If manually setting your depths doesn't work... then there is either faulty equipment, or bad ducer install...
DawgBone is offline  
Old 08-04-2013, 09:17 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saint Francisville, LA
Posts: 1,790
Default

don't know about the sounder, but tuna fishing we usually keep the sounder at 150' range so just that part of water column is visible, the tuna will show much larger, also the bait that is around and perhaps the bait they are perusing will be much more visible. You don't need a really good sounder for tuna, the water we fish is usually 1000' to 5000' deep so showing the whole column makes even larger tuna show up as a spec. If we are fishing and area and we see tuna down at 300-350 we might stick around awhile but vertical jigging is the only way we usually get them that deep.
knotreel is offline  
Old 08-05-2013, 03:05 PM
  #8  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 38
Default

Had similar issues but failed to shoot photo. I am fairly new to my unit and also had on Auto, were you at the Tuna pens? We were at the 425 and would only read the 1st 7 ft of water with a hard edge that looked like vertical graph bars. I will go manual when offshore as well.
ibgary is offline  
Old 08-05-2013, 03:07 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 13,589
Default

Use manual range and manual gain for this application.
abbor is offline  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:39 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Covington, La.
Posts: 269
Default

Originally Posted by abbor View Post
Use manual range and manual gain for this application.
Agreed.... But you would think that the auto setting would be able to automatically figure out your depth, and find bottom....

After all, finding bottom is any sonar's 1st/sole priority.... You really shouldn't have to monkey around with it much, just to find bottom...
DawgBone is offline  
Old 08-06-2013, 06:18 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Shinnecock, LI
Posts: 326
Default

try taking your nss back to 2.0. this fixed may things on my system, including some bugs with my bsm-2. i have been using similar settings as you and have been very happy with my returns, especially in shallower water 120-200'. when i put my tvg/clarity below 10 the screen gets filled with noise. so i keep mine at 15 as well? i too found the auto gain settings to give me a cleaner screen? im constantly playing with this thing though
Originally Posted by gatogordo View Post
Hey Guys,

I have a full Simrad system that I love. I have two NSS, 4G radar, BSM2, AP24 and Sonic hub.

The chirp sounder works AWESOME as long is it can see the bottom. Inshore, bottom fishing and even deep dropping for swords works great.

When I go offshore fishing here where the water is 6000-10000 feet deep I get all kinds of weird issues.

- I get noise at different depths off and on. I can tell it's noise and not thermocline or bait because it has very hard edges (see pic)

Attachment 350150

Or I get "bands" of noise that don't go away even when I run to a new location.

Attachment 350151

- When I do get tuna under the boat the marks are TINY. They look like little matchsticks, not arches or colored blobs like on other meters. They are very hard to see, let alone trying to determine species, etc.

The settings I have been using are as follows.

Gain - Auto +5 to -5
Color - 35
TVG - 15
Ping Speed - Tried everything from 5 to Max with no noticeable difference
Noise limiter - Tried Low - Medium - High
Range - 250 ft.

I have a BSM2 paired with a 265LH transducer. I am running v1.5 on the BSM and the latest software for the NSS.

I have tried EVERYTHING I can think of to make this thing work offshore with with little luck. The sounder is almost useless once I get out in the deep water.

I have also talked to a few other guys that have very similar issues and I'm pretty sure it's not just me.

I read a thread here on THT that had some of the settings other guys were using and they were very different from mine (running manual gain, etc) and reporting good results after upgrading the software.

I'd love to hear your experiences and settings for offshore use.

Thanks in advance.
fishbone24 is offline  
Old 08-06-2013, 07:00 PM
  #12  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 174
Default

Just to be clear, the issue isn't finding the bottom. The machine works great when it can see the bottom (2000' or less).

The issue is metering tuna (or anything for that matter) when I'm offshore in really deep water.

Thanks Abbor for the settings advice. Can anyone else tell me what settings they are using for good results with the BSM2 in very deep water?

I'll try the suggestions from abbor on my saturday run.
gatogordo is offline  
Old 08-07-2013, 01:32 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 132
Default Marking tuna

I havent got any issues marking tuna, ive attached a pic of a recent run of tuna here in Sydney where we were marking them just before hookup.

My settings on the 42-60hz are as follows:
Ping speed - 15+
Clarity / tvg - 3-5
Auto Gain with +1 or +2 bias
Colour at 39-40

Also make sure you set the depth manually to 80fathoms. And then change the search depth function from unlimited to 200fathoms. This should improve returns for Tuna and other surface fish/bait etc. Also make sure u are running v.1.5 of the BSM-2 software, at the very least.

Name:  Tunaunderboat.JPG
Views: 1283
Size:  126.5 KB

Name:  Bluefin2.JPG
Views: 1234
Size:  108.2 KB
rlazar is offline  
Old 08-07-2013, 01:33 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 132
Default

One more - you can see in the pics that ive been lazy and adj the gain too high which shows some clutter. But the tuna are identifiable clearly given the hardness of the markings, i.e. colour.

Changing the auto gain to zero bias clears all that clutter away.
rlazar is offline  
Old 08-07-2013, 03:45 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 179
Default

rlazer ,

What does changing the search depth from unlimited to 200fa do?
Matt1 is offline  
Old 08-07-2013, 07:59 AM
  #16  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 79
Default

I found Auto gain to cause all sorts of issues. Manual Gain was perfect especially out wide.
neptunedeep6 is offline  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:12 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 132
Default

ive never had an issue in the top water column with auto settings.

limiting the depth to the area that youre fishing means you should get better returns because the sonar isnt sending the ping to unecessary depths...
rlazar is offline  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:39 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 179
Default

Thanks.

I remember abbor mentioning that by extending the range your using deeper than the water your in that it will give a longer wavelength and thus better depth penetration. Not sure if that applies to the search depth or if it applies to this current situation the the thread??
Matt1 is offline  
Old 08-07-2013, 06:11 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,216
Default

If you increase the depth it uses a longer pulse (more energy in the water) then you use a zoom window for the depth you are interested in.
stiletto is offline  
Old 08-07-2013, 06:25 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 132
Default

Is that pointless if you're focusing on the top part of the water column? I agree useful for deeper water.
rlazar is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread