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Suzuki SMISS to Simrad connection question

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Suzuki SMISS to Simrad connection question

Old 07-22-2013, 11:41 AM
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vc
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Default Suzuki SMISS to Simrad connection question

I have a NMEA backbone for the SMIS gauges for DF300's and it is interconnected to the Simrad backbone so I can get GPS info to the NMEA backbone and engine info to the chart plotter.
My question is regarding the SMIS gauges. If the connection cable between back bones is removed, or if the chartplotter is not powered up, the SMISS gauges when on the fuel management page is stable, but if I have the chartplotter on, the fuel management page will sort of flicker a little bit, and on one page I have set up to show trip fuel and "seasonal" fuel used those values flicker and alternate between actual number and some other value. If I power down the chartplotter again the value is stable.

The cable between the backbones has had the power lead cut so that each back bone has it's own power but not powering the other back bone.

Thanks
Old 07-22-2013, 02:51 PM
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Try disconnecting the power node on the simnet, and running both networks with one power supply. you say the simnet/N2K adapter cable has it's power leads cut? does this mean you separated the 5 conductors inside the network cable and cut the the power wires? Not familiar with power leads you spoke of. My setup is the same and I just run one power node, the simnet, which powers the n2k. during set up I removed the n2k power node.
However, it very well might not be anything to do with too many power supplies, sounds like the chart plotter is not compatible with your SIMS as now setup. what chart plotter? does it have fuel economy info on it? If your chart plotter is doing it's own fuel economy and say it was in the wrong units, then info might get confused.
Old 07-22-2013, 07:04 PM
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vc
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The chart plotter is a Simrad NSE12. On the cable connecting the simnet to NMEA I did separate the 5 leads and cut the power lead. This was a suggestion made to me by Jim at BOE so that I could have the connection for data between the the two back bones without feeding power across because sometimes when we are anchored and leave the Simnet powered up to get Sirus weather and tunes, plus somtimes also have the fishfinder running. When I had an uncut connecting cable it would feed power to NMEA and as I recall it was powering up the SMIS gauges even with ignition key off, and I can't recall if anything else was going on. I have another uncut cable I can connect and see what the deal was again.
I had not thought about if the units of measure are different and if that would make it confused, but I think at least initially all units were the same but may be different right now. Would that really matter though if at least on the fuel used it is getting that from the fuel flow readings at engine computers and not the plotter?
Thanks
Old 07-23-2013, 06:35 AM
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I have the nse12 as well as the LMF400's and DF300's as your have. I just run the whole network or actually both networks from the Simnet power. I disconnected the N2K power node. My lmf's wont work unless the chartplotter is on but that is OK with me and as you said I have full chartplotter function without engines running this way. I used the lmf's to configure the engine interfaces and the nse see's them and supply almost all of the data correctly except show fuel fuel only from one engine, doubling my fuel economy, but the lmf's still work perfectly. you might try the power setup like mine, since it worked for me. It seems you have isolated the issue to the simnet/n2k adapter cable so try an unmodified version. Maybe it was damaged in the mod's?
Old 07-23-2013, 08:01 AM
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I'll have to check again with the unmodified cable, but I think there was still an issue. The plotter see's all the engine data correctly as far as the gauges I set up on the plotter goes.
Thank you,
vc
Old 07-23-2013, 11:00 AM
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yeah, just kill the n2k power, remove from tee or pull fuse. I would like the thing you did if it had worked, and if you get it working with both power supplies I would like to know. If you don't mind spending some, there are net work isolator boxes that can do what you want. but the cutting of wires like you did seems a simple low dollar fix.
Old 07-23-2013, 04:43 PM
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vc
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Jim at BOE says he has done that many times with no issues, so that is why I did it. Seems logical and certainly easy to do. I will have to call him and see if he has any other suggestions or ideas since he is also familiar with the Simrad side of things and maybe the SMIS too - I can't recall.
Also, I remembered another reason I was trying to avoid powering the SMIS gauges via simnet that maybe you can confirm since you are doing it. I was under the understanding that you need to have a good constant voltage to the gauges as if the engine alternators were running, or a shore power connection feeding the batteries, so that the gauges don't start dropping programming done to them, or give low voltage messages on screen. How is yours doing with that? And the other thing I m remembering but may be wrong is that if the system is powered then there are engine solenoids that are active. But that may be only when the ignition key is on as opposed to just the gauges.
Thanks,
vc
Old 07-24-2013, 06:32 AM
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Never had a voltage problem to affect the gages, however I do my engine interface conf. with a battery charger running. I have two house batteries and have run them low a time or two. I have never heard of low voltage issues beyond the config process but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yes, the ignition key powers up the engine ecu, fuel pumps, and probably a few other things. So my simnet is not on the ignition switch like the N2k network power was. Actually, that is better for my use as my radar is sometimes useful night time drifting for swords, I can run my nse and radar without ignition on.
You may not want to keep it the way I have mine arranged but worth a try to see what is going on with the LMF400 errors.
Old 08-01-2013, 07:48 PM
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vc
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I tried re doing my cable connection between the NMEA and Simnet so that power to both came via the Simnet power source and I still have the same issue. If I turn on the power to the Simnet the gauges for Suzuki also power on via the powered up NMEA back bone. The readings were stable on the fuel page. As soon as I turned on the key for ignition, the top two lines on fuel page started flickering between actual value and another value. This time I was showing a four digital line display with line one showing trip fuel, and line two showing seasonal fuel used. The other two lines were stable. Then I displayed the regular fuel management page and again the first two lines did the same thing.
Old 08-01-2013, 09:05 PM
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Do you by any chance have an EP85R memory module installed. One of these will cause the gauges to flip between 2 values. The gauges alternate between the memory in the engine interface and the EP85R. If you have one, remove it.
Old 08-02-2013, 05:09 AM
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Not sure if I have the EP85R. I will have to check and see. For sure I know I have connected to NMEA 3 SMIS gauges, two engine interfaces, one EP-65 I think is the number for the fluid level sensor, and the power connection to the backbone, unless I had it off to connect the data cord coming in from the simnet with power coming from simnet.
Would the EP85R be connected somewhere behind the dash like the EP65 is and connected to the NMEA back bone or is it connected into harness somewhere? If it's to the backbone then I almost certain I don't have it since all I have seen connected to NMEA is what I mentioned already.
Also the seasonal fuel used value it alternates to is something crazy like all 9's, and the trip fuel used alternates to a value that is usually around 10% off, but can't recall if more or less at the moment.

Thank you,
vc
Old 08-02-2013, 05:40 AM
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I believe that the functionality of the EP-85R data storage module is provided in the Lowrance interface for the Suzuki engines. Since that device is on the Suzuki-powered portion of your network, it seems like the data might not be available if the engine power is off.
Old 08-02-2013, 07:29 AM
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OK so it's not the dual power setup, did you ever have the SMIS working properly? or did the problem recently. At this point I would un-configure then re-configure the engine interfaces. I guess you can do it with the nse but I have never done that, I only have used the SMIS for that. First I would fully charge the house batteries then with the charger still attached do the configuration. This may not be the problem but it would eliminate the engine interface configuration as a suspect. It sounds like the SMIS could be receiving two conflicting sets of nmea sentences and alternating between then but that doesn't exactly square up with the data only being corrupted on the two top lines unless they are all some history type info.
I haven't thought this next idea through, but could the setup on the nse and smis be different and the nse putting the errant numbers on the network? All the actual data on fuel is generated and stored in the interfaces but it wouldn't hurt to run though the nse fuel setup menus to see that they are the same as the smis's.
All that aside, I would recommend that you go back though the Fuel setup on one of the SMIS, select gps as speed source and fuel remaining use fuel flow (not tank level) as source.
Maybe your tank setup has allowed some value to be exceeded? for example on my boat, I have two 100gal. tanks but I set up my SMIS as one tank of 200 gal. up can still use your level sender to view the tank levels on another data line but not for fuel ecom. so to sum up, first I would re-config. the interfaces, then go through the basic fuel setup on the SMIS to be sure that all that is correct, then think about something else.
On tank capacity I would avoid multiple tanks as you could easily use more than the one tank can hold, also I guess you are doing refills smis setups each time? ie reset trip mileage and on fill up you are selecting "no" to recalibrate when prompted?
Old 08-02-2013, 07:58 PM
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vc
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When SMIS backbone not connected to simnet the SMIS all seems to be working right and readings are stable.
I had originally had fuel remaining source as tank level and just changed to fuel flow, which actually ended up being much more accurate when I filled up today.
As for tank set up I have only one tank with two engines and when I checked the set up it stills shows that and the correct size tank.
I guess worst case I can get another gps antenna and hook it up to NMEA to get the instant fuel economy but the bad part is I really would like to connect it to chartplotter to also have back up instrumentation. The only thing that was off when reading instruments on chartplotter was the fuel flow for each engine was double. Everything else matched what SMIS displayed.
Arrgh!!
Thanks for the help, it is appreciated.
Old 08-03-2013, 05:56 AM
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yeah, I forgot that it all worked with not hooked to the MFD, so maybe the lmf's are receiving data from the nse that conflicts with the engine interface fuel data.
I looked in the installation manual and saw a list of N2K data that the nse can transmit. I would go into the the nse menu and delete some of these items, maybe the following ones:

130831 Suzuki Engine and Storage Device Config
130835 Set Engine And Tank Configuration
130836 Fluid Level Insect Configuration
130837 Fuel Flow Turbine Configuration

since the lmf's don't need that info they aren't needed on the network? anyway worth a try.
.

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