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Wait for chirp?

Old 03-04-2013, 02:38 PM
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Default Wait for chirp?

I am having a hard time picking a ff/chartploter. The more I read the more confused I get. I started out thinking HDS7 with factory transducer. Evidently the cheap transducer is the wrong way to go. There went my $1000 budget. I've found a HDS7 FF/gps/3g radar for under $2000. If I add a 1000W transducer looks like $2600 +/-. That number got me thinking about a HDS8 FF/GPS + 1000W transducer, or maybe even a Furuno 585, B260 and a cheap Garmin GPS. If that wasn't confusing enough, the Garmin 741xs with chirp is going to be a"game changer" wink, wink. Should I wait and see whos doing what with chirp? I don't want to invest in the best technology for silent movies just befor talkies come out. The little hamster can't spin the wheel fast enough for me to make this decision. HELP!!!
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:48 PM
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Start with some basic information and it may help to clear things up for you.

What are your fishing conditions?
How deep will the actual targets you are looking for be?

If you fish mostly water under 100' that really makes things simpler..
Ifyou fish in variable conditions down to 500' plus....then that will need to be considered.

So let us know what you are fishing fro and how deep etc.
Plus what type of boat..that can help determine the transducer type.




.

Last edited by semperfifishing; 03-04-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:26 PM
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Semperfi, thanks for the reply. Having my own boat is new to me, it's a 24' Skipjack open. The boat has, I was told from my description, a 744 fairing block transducer. I hope to be able to use the same location and hole for the new transducer. In the winter we will be fishing 600' or shallower. No more than a 1000' for sure. I would love to be able to find bait squid with the fishfinder. Summer fishing usually means going 50 to 70 miles south into Mexican waters for tuna, usually under kelp paddies. The tuna trips will necessitate midnight starts, so a radar would be nice. Thanks in advance for the help, Rjoe
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:12 PM
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More important than how deep the water is, is what depth are the targets? Bottom is easy to find, the targets not as much!
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:25 PM
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Winter fishing will be right on the bottom . 600' or less. Some people fish 1000' or deeper, but I doubt that I'll work that hard. As far as targets, rock cod, lingcod or what ever will hit a dropper loop.

Last edited by rjoe; 03-05-2013 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rjoe View Post
I am having a hard time picking a ff/chartploter. The more I read the more confused I get. I started out thinking HDS7 with factory transducer. Evidently the cheap transducer is the wrong way to go. There went my $1000 budget. I've found a HDS7 FF/gps/3g radar for under $2000. If I add a 1000W transducer looks like $2600 +/-. That number got me thinking about a HDS8 FF/GPS + 1000W transducer, or maybe even a Furuno 585, B260 and a cheap Garmin GPS. If that wasn't confusing enough, the Garmin 741xs with chirp is going to be a"game changer" wink, wink. Should I wait and see whos doing what with chirp? I don't want to invest in the best technology for silent movies just befor talkies come out. The little hamster can't spin the wheel fast enough for me to make this decision. HELP!!!
I understand that it can all be a little overwhelming at first. The key to sorting it out is to prioritize your actual needs (vs. "wants") and to make EVERY gear selection with an eye toward where you want to wind up, eventually, even if you're not going to "get there" for awhile yet due to budget constraints.


Originally Posted by rjoe View Post
Semperfi, thanks for the reply. Having my own boat is new to me, it's a 24' Skipjack open. The boat has, I was told from my description, a 744 fairing block transducer. I hope to be able to use the same location and hole for the new transducer. In the winter we will be fishing 600' or shallower. No more than a 1000' for sure. I would love to be able to find bait squid with the fishfinder. Summer fishing usually means going 50 to 70 miles south into Mexican waters for tuna, usually under kelp paddies. The tuna trips will necessitate midnight starts, so a radar would be nice. Thanks in advance for the help, Rjoe
Originally Posted by rjoe View Post
Winter fishing will be right on the bottom . 600' or less. Some people fish 1000' or deeper, but I doubt that I'll work that hard. As far as targets, rock cod, lingcod or what ever will hit a dropper loop.
OK... Given all that, there's just no getting around it: You're trying to do far too much with not nearly enough money.

Until you started talking about midnight departures, I was ready to tell you to defer the RADAR for awhile in order to free up funds for the other gear. But night-running (especially offshore) without RADAR is a near-suicidal thing to do, especially for a newbie. (Yes, there are still some "Old Salts" around who will proudly proclaim how they circumnavigated the globe single-handed with nothing but a sextant and a plumb line; but you aren't one of them.)

Further, with chartplotting, fishfinding, and RADAR images to display, a single dinky little 6.5-7 inch screen is not going to be NEARLY enough. A single 10-12 inch screen MIGHT be barely adequate. Twin 8-10 inch screens would surely be better; but if they are not fully networkable MFDs, you lose a LOT of flexibility in terms of what you can display, where, and when. That effectively rules out both stand-alone fishfinders and non-networkable MFDs like the Garmin 700 series or the Lowrance Elite-7.

Your fishing depths dictate a GOOD sounder, with a serious transducer. It is far too early to know if the upcoming Garmin 741xs (and/or the "Baby CHIRP" transducers which have been developed to complement it) will meet that description; but at least at your depths, I have my doubts. And besides, at least based on the currently available data, it's not networkable anyway.

If you want to get semi-serious about this, you're looking at something like the Simrad NSS8/NSE8 (preferably two of them), plus the BSM-2 CHIRP sounder module with a good transducer (such as the B175L/B175H pair) to go with it, plus one of their "Broadband" RADAR units (preferably the 4G model). If you add in an autopilot (which you WILL want for those long runs down to Mexico), plus a good heading sensor, plus installation and incidentals... You're probably looking at $10-12,000 all in; if you get fancy (bigger screens, satellite weather, maybe a WiFi connection, or a nice stereo system to keep you entertained on those long runs, etc.), it could easily hit $15-20,000 or more.

You don't necesarily have to do this all at once; but like I said above, you should keep the final target in mind at each step along the way.



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Old 03-05-2013, 07:06 PM
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Thanks for the reply, Itteldoo. Like I said the $1000 figure went out the window as soon as I read some of you knowledgeable guys comments on transducers. The $2000 figure in the back of my mind was gone when I started pricing FF/GPS/RADAR systems. The 741xs with chirp really side tracked me. Today the guy at west marine told me the 741xs won't be out till June or later, so I'm back thinking HDS8 with B164, with radar at a latter date. Or, either NSS7 or HDS7 FF/GPS/3gRADAR. Even with radar I would still be staying at 7 kts. or slower till day light. You don't think the 7" screen would allow me to SAFELY travel for 3 or 4 hours till sun up? I have dealt with low end electronics for the last year [Garmin 182 with a 744 transducer] so any of the systems I've look at would be a big step up for me. Again, thanks for the help, Rjoe
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by rjoe View Post
Thanks for the reply, Itteldoo. Like I said the $1000 figure went out the window as soon as I read some of you knowledgeable guys comments on transducers. The $2000 figure in the back of my mind was gone when I started pricing FF/GPS/RADAR systems.
Break
Out
Another
Thousand




The 741xs with chirp really side tracked me. Today the guy at west marine told me the 741xs won't be out till June or later,
There have been a few notable "slipping shipping date" sagas recently, and this is one of them. I wonder what the problem is?


so I'm back thinking HDS8 with B164, with radar at a latter date.
You could do worse. When shopping for the HDS-8, make absolutely sure that the unit you're considering is a "Gen2" model (there are still a few leftover Gen1 units floating around; but you don't want them), AND that it has the "Insight USA" cartography preloaded (the "loss leader" prices you often see advertised are usually for the so-called "Basemap" version, which is useless without spending still more money on an add-in chart card).


Or, either NSS7 or HDS7 FF/GPS/3gRADAR.
This would be a BIG step backwards, as compared to either the NSS8 or HDS-8, respectively. Remember what I said about keeping the ultimate goal in sight.


Even with radar I would still be staying at 7 kts. or slower till day light. You don't think the 7" screen would allow me to SAFELY travel for 3 or 4 hours till sun up?
I'm not saying you couldn't do that; but you'd be saddling yourself with a seriously inferior MFD -- which you would then have to live with for long after the "savings" were forgotten -- for the sake of being expedient now. Both of those models use 6.4-inch screens; and the difference betwen that and 8 or 8.4 inches is NOT subtle. And in the case of the HDS-7, you also lose that row of soft-keys along the bottom of the screen, which makes it much more of a PITA to operate.


I have dealt with low end electronics for the last year [Garmin 182 with a 744 transducer] so any of the systems I've look at would be a big step up for me.
Understood. But how long do you want it to be before you're itching to upgrade yet again? Get the stuff you REALLY want, even if you have to wait for part of it, and be happy for a long time.



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