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Any recommendations on a marine battery charger?

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Any recommendations on a marine battery charger?

Old 01-16-2013, 09:34 PM
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Default Any recommendations on a marine battery charger?

my boat has 2 1,000 cranking amp starting battery's and 1 1,000 cranking amp deep cycle battery im looking for a good battery charger to charge the battery's any advice is greatly appreciated. im not looking for an on board charger because where i keep my boat dose not have power so i pull the battery's and charge them at the house .

Attached are 2 different charges im looking at thanks,

first charger is a schumacher SSC-1500A
second is a schumacher Xcs15

Is one of these better than the other or is neither one any good ?
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Last edited by bmoney23; 01-16-2013 at 10:21 PM.
Old 01-16-2013, 09:56 PM
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The starting battries will be near full charge when you take them out of the boat. Any charger that will charge that type of battery will be fine as long as it "SHUTS OFF"

I would read the instructions on the deep cycle and follow them. If it's a flooded battery you need a charger that will let it gas. ( read the info on the site) ( some smart chargers will take care of this)

Last edited by Lyle29464; 01-17-2013 at 09:07 AM.
Old 01-17-2013, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bmoney23 View Post
my boat has 2 1,000 cranking amp starting battery's and 1 1,000 cranking amp deep cycle battery im looking for a good battery charger to charge the battery's any advice is greatly appreciated. im not looking for an on board charger because where i keep my boat dose not have power so i pull the battery's and charge them at the house .

Attached are 2 different charges im looking at thanks,

first charger is a schumacher SSC-1500A
second is a schumacher Xcs15

Is one of these better than the other or is neither one any good ?
To put it succinctly, if bluntly, they're both complete pieces of crap. Further, you aren't going to find anything which is not a complete piece of crap for $50 at your local WalMart. Do I really even need to tell you that? ;?

Given the (apparently) twin engines and separate House bank, you have a reasonably "serious" boat. As such, you really do need a proper on-board charger, such as (for example) this one:

http://www.pmariner.com/productFeatu...oductNum=63160

Obviously, the lack of dockside power where you keep the boat is a significant inconvenience; but so too is schlepping three ~75-lb. batteries back and forth between your house and the boat!

However, there may be another way to skin that cat... Have you considered using a small portable generator, such as:

http://www.championpowerequipment.co...rators/73531i/

http://www.farmandfleet.com/products...generator.html

???

This would not need to be kept on the boat when not in use. Perhaps you could store it in in a lockable dock box at the slip? Or failing that, it would still be way simpler and a LOT lighter to carry back and forth than the batteries themselves.



Old 01-17-2013, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Lyle29464 View Post
The house battries will be near full charge when you take them out of the boat.
What makes you think so? If anything, I would expect the opposite, particularly after a full day of fishing or similar, when the nav gear and the stereo and the fridge, and etc., have all been running that House bank down all day, with little or no opportunity to get recharged (most outboard motor alternators are notoriously weak; and we don't know that he's even set up to charge the House bank from the alternators).


Any charger that will charge that type of battery will be fine as long as it "SHUTS OFF"
This simply isn't true, at least if you don't want to kill the batteries prematurely. A proper 3-stage "smart" charger of appropriate capacity is required, especially if any of the batteries are AGM types.


I would read the instructions on the deep cycle and follow them. If it's a flooded battery you need a charger that will let it gas. ( read the info on the site) ( some smart chargers will take care of this)
What you are referring to as "gassing" is a byproduct of subjecting the battery to an "equalization phase". You do NOT want to do this even to a flooded cell battery every time you charge it. That just ages the battery excessively, leading to a premature demise. Most better chargers have a means to control when/if the equalization phase occurs, some automatically at intervals of perhaps once per month or so.



Old 01-21-2013, 08:10 PM
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I'm looking for a charger too. I've got 2 batt setup for an E-Tec 225 offshore boat. Was considering the Minn Kota 220D found here: http://store.minnkotamotors.com/prod...0a60360207c44b

Similar price to Ittledoo's recco, via Amazon but I've been able to find more positive reviews for it. Anybody have experience with this model?
Old 01-22-2013, 12:58 AM
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I have the Minn kota 210 and it works great. I keep it plugged in all the time and I have 2 plus years on my batteries. I cant tell you how good it is, just that it has worked for me. It has a bulk charge and a float charge once the batteries are charged all the way.
Old 01-22-2013, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Leatherhead View Post
I'm looking for a charger too. I've got 2 batt setup for an E-Tec 225 offshore boat. Was considering the Minn Kota 220D found here: http://store.minnkotamotors.com/prod...0a60360207c44b

Similar price to Ittledoo's recco, via Amazon but I've been able to find more positive reviews for it.
;? HUH?!? ;?

I've never recommended anything even remotely like that -- nor would I. It is wholly inadequate for any semi-serious "offshore boat".

The charger I did recommend earlier in this thread (the ProMariner ProNautic 1260P http://www.pmariner.com/productFeatu...oductNum=63160) would be suitable for your application; but it necessarily costs WAY more than the 10-Amp wonder you cited.



Old 01-22-2013, 05:18 AM
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Itteldoo -- pls check your PM's
Thanks
Old 01-22-2013, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Itteldoo View Post
;? HUH?!? ;?

I've never recommended anything even remotely like that -- nor would I. It is wholly inadequate for any semi-serious "offshore boat".

The charger I did recommend earlier in this thread (the ProMariner ProNautic 1260P http://www.pmariner.com/productFeatu...oductNum=63160) would be suitable for your application; but it necessarily costs WAY more than the 10-Amp wonder you cited.
Boeing, their battery supplier and their battery charger supplier are in need of some technical support regarding the Boeing B-787 battery charger being used with their new lithium ion battery system.

I have suggested they give you a call. Will you be so kind as to set them on the correct path with respect to all things related to batteries and battery chargers?

Your technical expertise will be appreciated.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...tests/1852489/
Old 01-23-2013, 04:23 PM
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If you intend to keep them on a continuous float, you should definitely get an electronic multi stage charger or you will be adding water often. With a three medium sized batteries on it, you should get at least a 20A charger or the charger will not last long.
Old 01-23-2013, 05:15 PM
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How about a solar charger?

They might not provide the high amperage of an AC powered charger, but if said AC outlet is not available, the only thing available would be the sun.

I still have to install a solar charger on my boat; would love to hear your experience or opinion on them.
Old 01-23-2013, 05:22 PM
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Itteldoo,

What do you think about my potential setup for a trolling, and powering Accessories/Stereo. See attachments...

My only concern is fumes below the deck where I plan to put the trolling motor batteries. I will try and put them in a battery box, however I am not sure they'll fit. I have to lay the batteries in there side - I think. So, I'll probably have to get AGM for the trolling motor batteries. I have the cheap Lead batteries from Walmart for the Accessories and Stereo. However, I need to do something better about those Walmart batteries because they don't last long when I'm cranking the stereo/amp. Especially when I'm trying to get those booty's shaken on the female companions.

Unfortunately, I don't have an outlet available where I store my boat, so I figure I can run the generator for 4 or 6 hours and let it run dry or run out of gas. That way when I come back it'll be charged.

I don't care for the added weight, but I gotta do what I gotta do. I suppose I can take the trolling batteries out in the winter when I don't drift fish.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:24 PM
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SmokinBarrel,

Is your battery charger's output completely electrically isolated from each other?
ie, the Ground of each output are not electrically connected to each other?
Some chargers would claim they are isolated; but are isolated only on the "+" terminals.
In your diagram, you need to have a completely isolated charger.
Otherwise, you are basically shorting Bank 4.
If your charger isnt completely electrically isolated, you should instead buy another "24V" charger just for the trolling batteries.
Mixing 24V and 12V system is a headache.

BTW... Is your trolling motor "Electrical"? How much ampere/power does it consume?
How about a 12V to 24V step up converter instead? http://www.current-logic.com/
2000W converters are small; much smaller than a battery. With this, you only need +12V battery system in your boat and keep your charger electronics simple.

Last edited by ragnakore; 01-23-2013 at 06:49 PM.
Old 01-23-2013, 06:55 PM
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Ragnak,

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean by electrically isolated?

The trolling motor will be a 24v, Minn Kota Terrova. Unfortunately, I looked on their website and couldn't find the amp draw. I would guestimate roughly 45 - 65 amps on full draw/power.

Do you mean a setup as pictured? I would prefer less batteries!! That way I can put more money into two quality batteries.
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Last edited by SmokinBarrel; 01-23-2013 at 07:16 PM.
Old 01-23-2013, 07:47 PM
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Attached is a simple, common "Isolated" Battery Charger.

If you measure the resistance between the "-" terminals, they are all shorted. This is not a problem if your main concern is to prevent power drain from one bank to another.

At first glance, you might think connecting battery banks to the terminals will isolate them from each other. The isolation is only for the "+" terminal. Power consumption from one bank will not drain the other banks.

However, in your diagram, you have Bank 3 battery (herein I call Battery 3) piggy back (series) on Bank 4 battery (herein I call Battery 4) to form a +24V system. If you have a charger similar to my diagram, what do you think will happen if you connected Battery 3's "-" terminal to the charger's "-" terminal? Remember: Battery 3's "-" terminal is connected to Battery 4's "+". You are effectively shorting Battery 4's "+" terminal to "-" as well.

To know if your charger's output is completely isolated from each other, test the resistance between each "-" terminal. It should read no connection (open circuit). Ask the vendor as well of what you intend to do; they should know if their charger will work for you.

If your charger is not completely isolated, either:
a) get a 12V to 24V converter and a single multibank +12V charger for all your batteries
b) get a separate +24V charger solely for the +24V bank.
c) or get a second +12V to charge Battery#3 only. Battery4 will be charged by the current charger.
d) exchange that +24V trolling motor with a +12V

I was checking up minn kota's 3 bank charger. there is no mention if the outputs are completely isolated from each other.
http://store.minnkotamotors.com/prod...c0e68e6d56fffd

I personally would like to keep it simple and assume all batteries are +12V system. If you have a +24V system, how will you charge it with the outboard motor? Right now, the only way to charge the +24V system is with an AC charger.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:51 PM
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Your last chart is what I'd recommend firstly.

I would guestimate roughly 45 - 65 amps on full draw/power.
This translate to about 1700W max.
A 2000W converter will be sufficient. Get a 3000W for extra head room.

PS.
On your latest diagram, I suggest using http://bluesea.com/category/78/79/productline/387 ($80 off ebay or amazon. cheap!)
Connect this lovely device between Starter Battery and Accessories Batteries.
It will automatically charge your House/Accessories batteries when the outboard motor is running, yet it isolates the two banks from each other when the outboard motor is off.
Old 01-24-2013, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SmokinBarrel View Post
Itteldoo,

What do you think about my potential setup for a trolling, and powering Accessories/Stereo. See attachments...
Oh, Dear... Where to begin?

You have several problems evident in that diagram. Among the more serious:

1. -- You are effectively installing a shorepower AC system on the boat, from scratch. There are some REALLY serious rules which MUST be followed when doing that, or you will create a serious safety hazard. Your aluminum hull makes this even more critically important. And I can tell you right now that your diagram breaks several of those rules. Mucking about with 12V DC is one thing; 120V AC is quite another -- and FAR more serious -- one. Screwing that up could literally be LETHAL. I suggest you get ahold of a copy of ABYC Standard E-11, and study it thoroughly before even thinking about taking this on yourself. If anything you discover therein gives you even the slightest pause, hire an ABYC-Certified pro to do this job, and don't look back.

2. - I haven't run the calcs; but I strongly suspect that the AWG8 wiring you show running from the trolling motor back to its battery bank is much too light -- in part because that 14-foot run you show is very probably really 28 feet. You need to count the entire round-trip run when calculating voltage drop in a circuit like this; and trolling motor applications are at least as sensitive to voltage drop as any electronics on your helm, perhaps more so. You would surely be far better off placing the batteries for the trolling motor MUCH closer to the motor itself.

3. - The battery charger you show is problematic on several fronts. First, 15A per bank is near-certainly inadequate, particularly for the trolling batteries; but this also probably applies for the House (or "Accessory", as you called it) bank (given that you are showing it to be comprised of two batteries, you are presumably figuring on some pretty heavy drains on that bank). In addition, and as others have mentioned, MOST "multi-bank" 12-volt chargers are really NOT fully isolated between banks, and therefore you cannot "stack" multiple banks to get higher voltages. You would be better served to use two separate chargers, one a dual-bank 12V unit, the other a single-bank 24V unit. This would also allow you to more appropriately select the charger capacities to match their respective tasks.

4. - Why are you physically separating the two batteries which comprise the House bank? You want those as close together as possible, so that their interconnecting cables are as short as possible, so that both batteries get drained (and charged) as equally as possible.

5. - The weight of five high-capacity batteries, all located well aft, on a boat as small and light as yours... I'd worry about that. Again, moving the trolling motor batteries forward would help. Maybe put the House batteries where you show the T.M. batteries.


My only concern is fumes below the deck where I plan to put the trolling motor batteries. I will try and put them in a battery box, however I am not sure they'll fit.
If you use AGM-type batteries, fumes should not be a major problem. Still, any enclosed space which contains batteries (even AGM types) should always be well ventilated, preferably by an active bilge blower which runs any time the batteries are either being used or being charged.


I have to lay the batteries in there side - I think. So, I'll probably have to get AGM for the trolling motor batteries.
While theoretically possible with the right type of AGM battery, I REALLY dislike the idea of laying the batteries down. It's just asking for trouble. For example, any water in the bilge now has a much easier time reaching the battery terminals -- NOT GOOD. It also exacerbates the charging requirements, because even slight overcharging is now potentially a major problem. (The valved vents which allow excess hydrogen to escape will likely be low enough, relative to the rest of the battery, that they will now spew liquid electrolyte instead -- NOT GOOD!) Better to choose batteries which will properly fit while oriented normally, even if you have to use a greater number of smaller batteries.


I have the cheap Lead batteries from Walmart for the Accessories and Stereo. However, I need to do something better about those Walmart batteries because they don't last long when I'm cranking the stereo/amp. Especially when I'm trying to get those booty's shaken on the female companions.
Ummmm... Yeah.


Unfortunately, I don't have an outlet available where I store my boat, so I figure I can run the generator for 4 or 6 hours and let it run dry or run out of gas. That way when I come back it'll be charged.
Letting a portable generator run unattended is so foolish as to be criminally culpable if something goes wrong. Just sayin'...



Old 01-24-2013, 07:27 AM
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Thanks for the input.... I will take a look at your suggestions and update my diagram.

Unfortunately, I have to have the 24v Trolling Motor based on performance on other boats. In fact, I should be purchase the 36v for best results, but I am not going to mess with 3 batteries. I may look into a 12v Trolling motor, however I need 80 lbs of thrust and the best I've found is 70 lbs.

Ragna,
I do have a Blue Sea Add a Battery it installed. One of the first things I did 4 years ago. I will identify that within the diagram.

Itteldoo,
Agree on the 'leaving the generator' unattended. However, being the owner of the storage facility basically told me 'no' on running electric for hookup, I figured this is the best option. I am not going to do solar. Been there done that. I figure as long as I can secure it so it doesn't dance around and check on it ever so often, I'll be good. Actually, this will be the exeption versus the norm.
Old 01-24-2013, 08:48 AM
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Okay, take a look at this, hopefully I'm getting closer and I all also like the simplicity.

I suppose, I could add another 12v to the two Accessory batteries 1 & 2.

Most of the time, I have the boat at home when fishing in the summer being I go out several days in row while I have the boat hitched. So, I can use electric from my home for the charger. The generator will be for limited use when I don't have that option.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:51 AM
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Before I got my MinnKota onboard smart charger, which is exellent so far, I was using the small Battery Tender Plus which you can get for approx. $60 at Ace or some other auto stores.
Do some research on them as they are excellent in charging method and will not overcharge. They also help condition the battery. Ship Shape TV put me on them and I really do like them.
Other folks I know got them and they feel the same way about them.

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