Go Back  The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > Marine Electronics Forum
Reload this Page >

35"ocean yacht need all new electronics what should I buy

Notices
Marine Electronics Forum

35"ocean yacht need all new electronics what should I buy

Old 08-02-2012, 08:56 PM
  #1  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Crystal River Fl.
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default 35"ocean yacht need all new electronics what should I buy

Hi
I am in the process of buying a 35' Ocean Yacht with twin Detroit diesel motors and a tuna tower. All of the electronics are shot or very old.
Here is what I think I need.
motor sync.
4kw radar
auto pilot
vhf radios (2)
GPS chart plotter
second GPS for tower
intercom from flying bridge to cabin
due I have to have matching radar and chart plotter from the same company
I need help I am way over my head
I do own a brand new in the box Humminbird 1158c combo.
If I use it do I have to use humminbird radar Etc.
Would really like to use the humminbird if I can I

I laid out almost 2k for it

Wooddon
Old 08-03-2012, 05:02 AM
  #2  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PBG, FL
Posts: 8,933
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

budget?
Old 08-03-2012, 05:15 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Islamorada, FL
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by wooddon View Post
Hi
I am in the process of buying a 35' Ocean Yacht with twin Detroit diesel motors and a tuna tower. All of the electronics are shot or very old.
Here is what I think I need.
motor sync.
4kw radar
auto pilot
vhf radios (2)
GPS chart plotter
second GPS for tower
intercom from flying bridge to cabin
due I have to have matching radar and chart plotter from the same company
I need help I am way over my head
I do own a brand new in the box Humminbird 1158c combo.
If I use it do I have to use humminbird radar Etc.
Would really like to use the humminbird if I can I

I laid out almost 2k for it

Wooddon
I'd strongly recommend linking up with a good electronics expert in your area. Plan to spend 15-20k for the "whole thing" done properly.

Last edited by JasonSTL739; 08-03-2012 at 06:19 AM.
Old 08-03-2012, 05:24 AM
  #4  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Sell th hummingbird
Get simrad nss or nse with 3g or 4g dome
You can be under 10 with 2 screens and the whole dealioe
Wait until you get new stuff prior to removing the old...it'll help pulling the new wires.
Old 08-04-2012, 06:14 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

4k Isn't much better than 2k it just cuts through fog better, I'd consider getting a 2k and put more money into the electronics, no fishfinder? If you plan on getting one then keep the hummingbird, the have some of the best transducers.
Old 08-04-2012, 06:46 AM
  #6  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lower Bay in VA.
Posts: 5,874
Received 211 Likes on 126 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tom10122 View Post
4k Isn't much better than 2k it just cuts through fog better, I'd consider getting a 2k and put more money into the electronics, no fishfinder? If you plan on getting one then keep the hummingbird, the have some of the best transducers.
Will strongly disagree on the 4k vs 2k . I would go with a 4k . while some 2k work well some don't . (It has really has more to do with beam width then the power) . a few bucks saved now could be a costly upgrade tomorrow .
Old 08-04-2012, 09:11 AM
  #7  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Annapolis
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Sell the Humminbird; integrating it will create more problems than you need. This isn't their market.

Do you know why some people call Garmin the 800 pound Gorilla? Because a lot of people, some very smart, some otherwise, choose Garmin for their electronics. That's a lot more than all the other manufacturers, whose buyers are equally smart or otherwise.

Network two chart plotters, get the largest radar that fits the boat and your budget. Subscribe to XM weather, add the Garmin AIS B (pending budget) or receive only, and a Garmin radio to get the full N2K integration for AIS, DSC, direct calling, etc.

If the boat presently has an in-hull transducer, check with Gemeco (Airmar's retail side) to see if it can be used for a while. If you do a lot of fishing, CHIRP technology should be on your letter to Santa.

Garmin autopilot is a no-brainer.

Why buy everything from one manufacturer? To have one lap to dump any problems in. That counts as one whole hell of a lot of good reasons.

The lone exception is this: your second radio should be a Standard Horizon 21XX with its own battery and antenna, and you should carry a handheld VHF and GPS when you head out for the Bahamas or Cuba! When you start doing overnight trips off shore, you should get an Epirb. I also carry a SEND device, a deLorme inReach, to keep the fan club happy when they can't call me.

Plan the whole installation and lay iot out on a bench.

When you remove old electronics from a boat, pull the old wiring and leave a pull line in its place, with a tag that says where it goes on both ends. DO NOT try to use old wiring. Keep wires out of wet bilges, make sure long runs are supported every 20 -24" and can't be reached by wandering toes. Crimp and heat-shrink all connections below the main deck or on the fly-bridge.

You will likely be using an NMEA 2000 system: Put some extra capped Tees in accessible places for future installations like a combo instrument above the skipper's berth, electronic throttle controls, fuel flow sensors, anchor controls, etc.

Talk to your installer about pulling some Cat5e for the next generation of NMEA; it was just announced, uses Ethernet and won't be changing the physical layer of the old 802 stuff. This will let you play video (radar, weather, deck cameras, engine room cameras, television and prime time movies) where ever your fancy flies.
Old 08-04-2012, 04:43 PM
  #8  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Connecticut, Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

I think sandyda nailed it. Garmin is a good way to go. Best advice is to remove every piece of old outdated electronics including the old wires and brackets. Start with a clean sheet. Plan it out so it does not look like a mess when completed. Plan for two MFD's even if the budget says get one.
Sell the Hummingbird.
Sounds like a fun project, just keep the $$$$ coming.
Old 08-04-2012, 08:08 PM
  #9  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 5,956
Likes: 0
Received 418 Likes on 262 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by sandyda View Post
Sell the Humminbird; integrating it will create more problems than you need. This isn't their market.

Do you know why some people call Garmin the 800 pound Gorilla? Because a lot of people, some very smart, some otherwise, choose Garmin for their electronics. That's a lot more than all the other manufacturers, whose buyers are equally smart or otherwise.

Network two chart plotters, get the largest radar that fits the boat and your budget. Subscribe to XM weather, add the Garmin AIS B (pending budget) or receive only, and a Garmin radio to get the full N2K integration for AIS, DSC, direct calling, etc.

If the boat presently has an in-hull transducer, check with Gemeco (Airmar's retail side) to see if it can be used for a while. If you do a lot of fishing, CHIRP technology should be on your letter to Santa.

Garmin autopilot is a no-brainer.

Why buy everything from one manufacturer? To have one lap to dump any problems in. That counts as one whole hell of a lot of good reasons.

The lone exception is this: your second radio should be a Standard Horizon 21XX with its own battery and antenna, and you should carry a handheld VHF and GPS when you head out for the Bahamas or Cuba! When you start doing overnight trips off shore, you should get an Epirb. I also carry a SEND device, a deLorme inReach, to keep the fan club happy when they can't call me.

Plan the whole installation and lay iot out on a bench.

When you remove old electronics from a boat, pull the old wiring and leave a pull line in its place, with a tag that says where it goes on both ends. DO NOT try to use old wiring. Keep wires out of wet bilges, make sure long runs are supported every 20 -24" and can't be reached by wandering toes. Crimp and heat-shrink all connections below the main deck or on the fly-bridge.

You will likely be using an NMEA 2000 system: Put some extra capped Tees in accessible places for future installations like a combo instrument above the skipper's berth, electronic throttle controls, fuel flow sensors, anchor controls, etc.

Talk to your installer about pulling some Cat5e for the next generation of NMEA; it was just announced, uses Ethernet and won't be changing the physical layer of the old 802 stuff. This will let you play video (radar, weather, deck cameras, engine room cameras, television and prime time movies) where ever your fancy flies.
This advice is spot on. I'd add pull extra cables/conductors everywhere. While everything is open, now is the time. Spreader, cockpit, underwater lights, speakers, etc.
Old 08-05-2012, 09:22 AM
  #10  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,785
Received 872 Likes on 432 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by t-bone31 View Post
Sell th hummingbird
Get simrad nss or nse with 3g or 4g dome
You can be under 10 with 2 screens and the whole dealioe
Wait until you get new stuff prior to removing the old...it'll help pulling the new wires.

Exactly what I did. I have used Garmin, Simrad, Foruno, and Raymarine. The Simrad system with 2 NSE's, auto, radar, satelite weather, engine room camera, remote alarms, etc was around 15 K installed. I love it!

If it was me I'd sell the Humminbird to someone that doesn't need an integrated system or I would install it as a backup system (there is an argument for a seperate backup...).

You didn't say what year Ocean you bought but I'd imagine you are close to my situation. 2002 boat was traded around 2006 and then sat at the dealership untill the fall of 2010 when I bought it. Since then I have probably spent as much getting the boat back to "my" standards as I did buying it. I have to say that for me it is darn near perfect now!
Old 08-05-2012, 09:43 AM
  #11  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

don't know if all that will fit on a 35 inch boat....
Old 08-05-2012, 10:29 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Some ICOM radios have built-in intercom function.
Old 08-05-2012, 10:49 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 14,557
Likes: 0
Received 656 Likes on 521 Posts
Default

Garmin has the oldest MFD technology of the big four. The two only reasons I could see to go Garmin for a new insrtall is CHIRP sounder or budget reasons (4000 range).

Furuno, Simrad and Raymarine have all currently better and more modern MFD's and radars than Garmin. Simrad also offers better autopilot integration, with a NSE or NSS no autopilot control head is needed, everything including commissioning can be done from the MFD.
Old 09-04-2012, 11:47 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,418
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by wooddon View Post

Subject: 35"ocean yacht need all new electronics what should I buy
That is such a broad and open-ended question as to be effectively unanswerable, at least with the specificity I think you're looking for. Everybody who answers will have his/her "favorite" brand, which may or may not correspond in any way to what is best FOR YOU.

A complete electronics refit on a 35' sportfisherman is a MAJOR job -- and a major investment as well. As it happens, "bradv" already asked one of the most important questions: What sort of budget did you have in mind for this? Your mention of trying to salvage that not-very-appropriate Humminbird GPS/FF for the sake of "saving" a few hundred to maybe 1,000 bucks (i.e., the "hit" you'll take when selling it second-hand) makes me think you really aren't allocating nearly enough to do the job RIGHT.

That said, (I think) I can address a few of the points you raised...


Hi
I am in the process of buying a 35' Ocean Yacht with twin Detroit diesel motors and a tuna tower. All of the electronics are shot or very old.
First & foremost, WAIT until you've actually taken delivery of the boat AND had some time to crawl around every nook and cranny of it at least a few times, before carving any decisions into granite. Dollars to doughnuts, this project WILL become an exercise in "moving targets" as you discover new issues and idiosyncrasies. Given the calendar, I would NOT attempt to buy anything until at least this Fall/Winter's boat show season, and probably not until you're making ready for Spring Launch (at least, assuming you go through that lovely annual ritual down there in FL). The point is to take your time and make your selections CAREFULLY, because you'll probably be "stuck with" them for a long time (or take a huge financial hit to change your mind six months or a year later).


Here is what I think I need.
motor sync.
This one can (and should) be treated as a separate issue, as whatever you choose here doesn't really have much/any impact on the other gear (or vice versa).

The "Big Name" in this market niche is Glendinning. They've been around halfway to forever, make some very fine products, and service can be had almost anywhere. That said, I personally prefer the "AccuSync" by Sturdy Corp. http://www.sturdycorp.com/gallery/detail.aspx?id=6630 due to its simpler and more foolproof operation. But as I said, it really doesn't matter which of these you choose, in terms of the other electronics; so investigate thoroughly, then pick whichever one YOU like.


4kw radar
Seems a bit minimal for a 35-foot SF, particularly one with a tower (which suggests that the boat will be used for "serious" fishing). Surely you have room for a good 10-12KW unit with a 6-foot open-array scanner. I'd consider a 4-foot/6KW unit as the dead minimum for that boat, especially if you'll be trying to mark birds.

OTOH, if (despite the tower) your intended use for this boat is (much) more cruising than fishing (in which case, I have to question the wisdom of buying a tower-equipped boat in the first place), then you probably ought to strongly consider the Navico "Broadband 4G" system. This will provide MUCH better ultra-close-in performance (such as when trying to negotiate a tricky harbor or marina entrance in pea-soup fog); and it's overall performance is indeed quite impressive for a tiny (19.2 inch) enclosed-dome unit. But it will still be seriously outclassed at the longer ranges by the above-mentioned decent open-array system. This system is sold under all the Navico brands (Lowrance, Simrad, B&G), and is essentially the same unit regardless of the label; but for some minor technical reasons, you should go with whichever variant matches the chartplotters/MFDs you select.


auto pilot
While you don't have to use the same brand pilot as the "other stuff", there are usually advantages to doing so. The undisputed leader in this segment for a l-o-n-g time was SIMRAD/Robertson, with Raymarine/Autohelm also a strong contender. But more recently, Garmin has been getting some rave reviews for their autopilots (a technology they bought via Nautamatic Marine Systems), so they're definitely worth checking out. But in the end, you really shouldn't let this "tail" wag the dog of the larger MFD/Sounder/RADAR decision.


vhf radios (2)
Again, Garmin has something of a lead here, with their VHF200 and VHF300AIS models, which sport full NMEA2000 connectivity and (in the latter case at least) built-in AIS. HOWEVER... I fully expect the other major vendors to catch up "real soon now"; in fact, I'd be surprised if at least Icom & Raymarine did not introduce some "competitive or better" products this Fall/Winter. So again, I strongly suggest holding off on this until you see what the new "Product Intro Season" yields.

OTOH, a properly functional VHF radio is SO crucial to the safe operation of your boat that I cannot countenance running even temporarily without at least one known-good radio (and I strongly prefer two separate radios -- NOT one radio with a second "remote station" or similar; tho' for convenience sake you might want to make such a multi-station system your default radio, with another completely independent setup also aboard). So, IF the currently installed radio(s) is/are really shot/unreliable, etc.; then you definitely need to buy something NOW. That "something" could be an inexpensive entry-level model, or possibly even a hand-held portable, as long as the antenna system you tie it to is top-notch and properly installed. Then you won't feel so bad about "wasting" money when you replace it with "the real thing" in a few months.


GPS chart plotter
second GPS for tower
You've got this one backwards. While multiple GPS receivers (i.e., data sources) are nice to have (and I'd probably recommend it on this sort of boat, especially if you're in the habit of venturing far enough offshore to be out of sight of land), they aren't really necessary and can complicate the installation & system setup somewhat. And besides, as you add secondary gear later on (such as the truly superb Airmar PB200 weather station), you'll pick up additional GPS receivers "by accident" anyway.

What you DO want is multiple Chartplotter/Sounder/RADAR displays -- at least one at each steering station (including the lower helm in the salon, if the boat is so-equipped), and very probably two or more at the "main" helm (presumably the flybridge in this case).

Note that whichever brand of chartplotter/MFD you choose will also determine the brand of sounder and RADAR, and vice versa, at least presuming that you want to integrate these functions (which you definitely do -- trust me). More on that below; but the point here is that all three major units MUST be considered as a single "system", and any trade-offs involved from one brand/model to another balanced vis-a-vis this integrated whole.


intercom from flying bridge to cabin
This function will be integrated into any decent multi-station VHF radio system you buy. I still recommend a second completely independent VHF (probably mounted below). But for your everyday working radios, an integrated multi-station system is the way to go. Or, if you install a separate hailer system, they too usually provide intercom functions.


due I have to have matching radar and chart plotter from the same company
The short answer is "Yes".

The somewhat more complicated answer is, you don't absolutely "have to". But if you don't, you'll need a separate independent display (at EACH station) for each function; and they won't talk to each other in any major way, so you'll lose such (very useful) functions as RADAR Overlay.

Unlike the various "low bandwidth" instrument functions, such as Heading, Course Over Ground, Speed Through Water, Wind Speed/Direction, etc., the data generated by a RADAR unit or a fishfinder/SONAR requires MUCH more bandwidth than even something like NMEA2000 can provide. That's why, these days, these "data intensive" data sources are networked to their respective display units (commonly called "MFDs", for "Multi-Function Displays") via some flavor of Ethernet. But each manufacturer uses their own proprietary variation on that common theme, and none of them are compatible with the next guy's stuff. (The "sort of" exception to this are the various Navico brands: Lowrance, SIMRAD, and B&G; they all now use a common network interface and are largely interchangeable, tho' with a few little quirks remaining here and there.)


I need help I am way over my head
You also left out one of the more important decision-hinging functions/devices: The fishfinder/sounder.

If all you want is a simple numerical water-depth indicator, you don't need to worry about this; an inexpensive Airmar "Smart Sensor" transducer (such as the DST800) can connect directly to your NMEA2000 bus and provide that data to any NMEA2000-compatible display onboard (which would include any current MFD/Chartplotter from the major manufacturers, plus many other smaller display units)

But on this sort of boat, at least given the presumed primary usage, that simple numerical readout is not nearly enough. You WILL want a "serious" fishfinder/SONAR. And as it happens, there are some very exciting things happening on this front right now, which makes this anything but a trivial decision.

The two biggest "new toys" are something called "CHIRP" ("Compressed High Intensity Radar Pulse") technology, such as used by the Garmin GSD-26, the Raymarine CP450C, and the Simrad BSM-2. Any of these, when coupled with an appropriate and properly installed transducer, will produce performance that is head-and-shoulders (really, more like "night and day") superior to any conventional (i.e., old-tech single-pulse) fishfinder/SONAR system.

The other major area of technological advancement is in the realm of side-scanning and/or forward-scanning SONAR, such the Lowrance/SIMRAD LSS-1 and LSS-2, or the various models from Interphase (who were recently purchased by Garmin -- yes, they are the 5,000 lb. gorilla of the industry)- These units are still another different technology entirely, and can yield some truly amazing results; you need to at least see some screen shots to even begin to understand. But unlike CHIRP, they are best used to augment conventional SONAR, rather than replace it. In other words, in an perfect world, you want both a good CHIRP sounder and a good side- and/or forward-scanning SONAR.

You really need to read up on these new developments before making ANY decision about new electronics. There is far too much to them to go into adequate detail here.


I do own a brand new in the box Humminbird 1158c combo.
If I use it do I have to use humminbird radar Etc.
Would really like to use the humminbird if I can I

I laid out almost 2k for it
Ignore this. Sell it on Craigslist or eBay if need be. But do NOT let this tail wag the dog, That unit simply isn't appropriate for this boat.

Bottom Line: Go to the boat shows. Talk to the reps. See, feel, taste, touch and generally obsess over every model from every major brand. Decide which features are important TO YOU. Then hire a GOOD local marine electronics company to spec out and install the whole system, so you'll then have ONE place to point a finger at if/when things don't work out as planned. Also, ask your dock buddies for their experiences with local installers/vendors, so as to help weed out the wheat from the chaff.

Good luck!


Old 09-04-2012, 01:39 PM
  #15  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 5,956
Likes: 0
Received 418 Likes on 262 Posts
Default

Itteldoo, nicely put. Some of the best decision-making guidance I've seen in a while. Maybe late for this guy, but all good info for someone making similar choices.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.