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360 Imaging v.s StructureMap – IMHO

Old 03-04-2012, 07:33 AM
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Default 360 Imaging v.s StructureMap – IMHO

Last week we saw the launch of the latest technology released by Humminbird at the Bassmasters Elite Tournament in the United States … ‘360 Imaging’.

Is this another Humminbird scam like their ‘Down’ Imaging from SideImaging release early 2010?

No, I do not believe that it is. 360 Imaging is a great tool for scanning for structure, and in very unique situations, even fish. But scanning for structure and cover is going to be 99% of the 360 Imaging’s purpose.

I have used 360° scanning with my Humminbird 1197cxSI thanks to Per Pelin’s DrDepth ‘Fish Radar’ tool in January last year. This is a DIY device that anybody can build themselves using bits and pieces lying in your garage and a cheap little controller that can be bought off the net.

Heading -
The biggest problem I had with the 360 was that if you were not moving in a relatively constant direction and speed, your heading would be erratic. Keep in mind that our fishfinder / GPS Combo units do not have heading sensors, and the heading or COG (course over ground) as it is known is created by our movement and where we were a second ago, or each time the receiver updates with the satellite. And as a result of this, a tree that was dead ahead 3 seconds ago would now appear to be up to 90° to either the left or right. Imagine how far off you will be when using a range of 150ft?! This however will not be a problem with the Humminbird as the data is live, and not saving as a map.

Weather / Water Conditions –
The next problem is image quality when the water becomes choppy from either wind or boat traffic. Those of you who have used SideScan sonar will know how streaky your left and right images become when this happens, thus rendering it useless. What happens if this is tournament day and the conditions are choppy, no 360 Imaging?!

Display Size –
Due to the circle shaped coverage, the pixel utilization is reduced dramatically, especially on the smaller 898 & 998 systems.



With the Lowrance HDS Gen2 you don’t have any of these problems … Why?

Heading –
When recording the log for StructureMap, you will be on the main motor idling along at a constant speed of around 3-5kph, therefore allowing the unit to create a very accurate heading, or COG (Course over Ground). This will ultimately result in very accurate maps.

Weather / Water Conditions –
StructureMap is a pre-fishing tool, so it doesn’t matter how rough the conditions are on tournament day, because your logs were done in your own time and in perfect conditions. Come tournament day you merely insert your SD memory card and voila – a perfect map.

Display Size –
StructureMap utilizes the entire screen. You can even control the transparency of your StructureMap allowing the contours of your Navionics / LCM charts to appear through your map!



Conclusion:-

I especially like that StructureMap is done before the fact, and NOT when I’m fishing.
Old 03-04-2012, 08:30 AM
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Fishton - nice write-up.

I am curious as to how both perform once out. I can see the Humminbird 360 being very useful for staying on top of schools of fish.

The issue you highlight can be addressed with a heading sensor - yes? A pricey fix, but an option.

I have a HDS7 Gen2 in the box to install - I'm looking forward to record some area - I guess I'm curious as to how much area I can record on a given SD card and how well I can manage multiple cards for the various parts of the lake I fish.
Old 03-04-2012, 06:37 PM
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That's interesting assumption when the 360 Product was just announced and only Humminbird personnel have used it in product testing before the release...

To me imaging is used for finding fish...isn't that why we invest in this technology to catch more fish. with 360 Imaging you can see the fish and structure and exactly where it is located from reference from the transducer and the direct you need to cast to catch them. I want realtime data not past history to help make my fishing decisions. You are comparing two totally different technologies. Your Structure Maps are neat but it's not current data...I want to know where the fish are right now...that is the value of 360 Imaging see the structure and most importantly the fish at this moment to make the decision I need to increase my odds of catching fish.

One of the Biggest Features of 360 Imaging is you do not need any boat movement to create images...you can be stopped and get 360° coverage up to 150' away from the boat in all directions or 70,685 Square Feet of Coverage. It works equally well moving with the boat the operated is notified when he exceeds 15mph that the unit is deployed. It has been tested over 30 mph fully deployed for strength of the shaft. The shaft of the 360 Iamging is specially designed to eliminate side to side movement and front to rear movement. It's a really neat feature that will change imaging sonar...you can now look into the future and with zero boat movement required.




Last edited by Doug Vahrenberg; 03-07-2012 at 07:08 AM.
Old 03-04-2012, 07:11 PM
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You would make a very good Sangoma here in Kwa-Zulu Natal Doug.
Old 03-04-2012, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishton View Post
You would make a very good Sangoma here in Kwa-Zulu Natal Doug.
If the 360 transducer is on the Transom, and you are viewing on the bow and want to fish the structure you are seeing, How exactly would you do that? You'd be off at a minimum, the distance from the head unit on the bow to the location of the 360 ducer. For me, that's 18ft.

The structure map would allow you to know where the structure is, and you could split screen with DI and you'd be dead on.
Old 03-05-2012, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mduncan62 View Post
If the 360 transducer is on the Transom, and you are viewing on the bow and want to fish the structure you are seeing, How exactly would you do that? You'd be off at a minimum, the distance from the head unit on the bow to the location of the 360 ducer. For me, that's 18ft.
That an excellent question and Humminbird Engineers have already resolved that. Based on your fishing location an adjustment will be available to correlate to your location from the distance you are viewing the data from the transducer so you can make your fishing decisions and know exactly where to cast based on your location and where the data is on the graph you are viewing the data.
Old 03-06-2012, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Vahrenberg View Post
Your Structure Maps are neat
You hit the nail on the head Doug. The Lowrance Gen2 mapping features are neat. Going to help a lot of anglers to already have areas mapped for tournament day, and know where the structure is. Many times, structure is key.
Old 03-07-2012, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Vahrenberg View Post
Your Structure Maps are neat but it's not current data...I want to know where the fish are right now...that is the value of 360 Imaging see the structure and most importantly the fish at this moment to make the decision I need to increase my odds of catching fish.
Are you investing in technology to Catch More Fish or Look at Structure? I use sonar to find and locate the fish and catch more...360 Imaging is going to take me to new levels in helping me locate fish! In ways we have never seen before...in every direction around the boat. Yes I'll be fishing in the future with Real Time Data not old historical data.

Like to come see it in action? Mr. Duncan we don't live far apart and would love to show you what Humminbird offers and especially the new 360 Imaging when it comes out.
Old 03-07-2012, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Vahrenberg View Post
Are you investing in technology to Catch More Fish or Look at Structure? I use sonar to find and locate the fish and catch more...360 Imaging is going to take me to new levels in helping me locate fish! In ways we have never seen before...in every direction around the boat. Yes I'll be fishing in the future with Real Time Data not old historical data.

Like to come see it in action? Mr. Duncan we don't live far apart and would love to show you what Humminbird offers and especially the new 360 Imaging when it comes out.
I'd like to see it in action when it comes out. If it works as described, and the refresh is fast enough, I think this would be a great tool for guys that spider rig. 8 poles hanging off the front of the boat and if you can see the fish ahead, that would be a nice touch.

So much of the fishing that I do is jigging around known structure, much more than looking for fish. If I scan areas and can save that to use as my mapping, and see each ledge, each laydown, each cedar tree (that I've put there or others) I then have a road map to success. Wind and choppy water on tournament day possibly would have an impact of 360 being able to show you what you need, where structure map would show you what you want to target, and downscan would show you when You're right on it.

When we both have the new technology in our boats, I think it'd be fun to meet at the lake and compare how they both can be put into practice.
Old 03-07-2012, 06:56 PM
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mduncan62,
Doug is very good at what he does, he has said many times before that he prefers fishing extremely shallow water. SideScan is perfect for that when looking for fish because the sound wave is restricted to a very narrow column.

But for the rest of us that target a large range of depths up to 80ft or more, SideScan is a Structure finding tool, and once the structure is found, we go over it with 50kHz 2D and 800kHz DownScan to see if its holding fish.

Very exciting things are just around the corner.
Old 03-08-2012, 04:42 AM
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I think the structure map will be very good for my type of fishing (fluke in 60-100 fow in long island sound). Can't see much use for the 360 scan unless I was chasing bunker up in the harbor, but then again I could just turn the boat.....
Old 03-08-2012, 06:15 PM
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I guess i am finally going to have to put my 987SI on the shelf and invest in a 998 or 1198. Shame though, my 987 still produces quality images. 360 looks interesting. The two technologies here are apples and oranges. They should not be compared head to head one VS the other IMO.
Old 03-08-2012, 06:24 PM
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The 360 feature does look cool. Especially the ability to look ahead when moving slow.

But that transducer????? You have to lower it? I would hate to forget I've got it lowered and hit something.

And then the humminbirds don't talk to fuel flow sensors and no video input.
Old 03-08-2012, 07:37 PM
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Another question.... With this 360 imaging, is it such that one could literally see live, the fish moving around them?

With structurescan or other finders, it's always a snapshot of what "was" there. But if the boat is very still or just drifting, it seems like one could see the fish moving.
Old 03-08-2012, 08:24 PM
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Anyone know why Humminbird or Lowrance don't put a compass and accelerometer in their unit like say every smartphone out today for heading and wave action correction? The compass chip in the iPhone cost about $6.

Another point, don't commercial fishing vessels typically use searchlight sonar which is essentially what the Humminbird 360 is?

Last edited by jharrell; 03-08-2012 at 08:40 PM.
Old 03-09-2012, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by happyfirst View Post
The 360 feature does look cool. Especially the ability to look ahead when moving slow.

But that transducer????? You have to lower it? I would hate to forget I've got it lowered and hit something.

And then the humminbirds don't talk to fuel flow sensors and no video input.

Not true!!
Radar is now available through humminbird and a NMEA backbone will be available shortly.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/humminb...M=EGCA&lppc=16

http://store.humminbird.com/products.../AS_ETH_NMEA2K

http://www.bing.com/shopping/humminb...ABLE&FORM=HURE


Last edited by pastaman1234; 03-09-2012 at 06:28 AM.
Old 03-09-2012, 09:18 AM
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I don't believe I am wrong when I say that Bass, Trout and Salmon are structure related fish. Find the structure at the right temperature and these fish will be there. That's why, for me, it's very important to find and record my fishing areas in optimum conditions. THE STRUCTURE WILL NEVER CHANGE. And fishton is right, it really doesn't matter how much boat traffic or waves there are on tournament day. My structure recordings are solid and clear.

Edd
Old 03-09-2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Edd View Post
I don't believe I am wrong when I say that Bass, Trout and Salmon are structure related fish. Find the structure at the right temperature and these fish will be there. That's why, for me, it's very important to find and record my fishing areas in optimum conditions. THE STRUCTURE WILL NEVER CHANGE. And fishton is right, it really doesn't matter how much boat traffic or waves there are on tournament day. My structure recordings are solid and clear.

Edd
I think both technologies have their place. They are too different to compare. If both companies offered both systems every pro would be outfitting their boat with BOTH asap.

Structure map is a pre planned attack on the fish and 360 is improvising on the spot. I would love to be able to follow a school of fish around. As far as rough water...when was the last time you watched a bass fishing show in rough water?? It happens but not that ofter. HB has new saltwater stuff coming out but it still caters to freshwater where Low caters to both.

Comparing the two together is like watching a live football game not knowing the outcome vs watching a recorded football game off of your DVR knowing full well what the final score and outcome is.

The question i have is.......Define live!!
Maybe Doug or Fishton can answer?? Like another poster already mentioned. If a whale is under my boat am i going to be able to see the tail wiggle or what??

Last edited by pastaman1234; 03-09-2012 at 06:07 PM.
Old 03-09-2012, 10:07 AM
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$1999.99 !!!!!!!

http://www.cabelas.com/sonar-and-son...:referralID=NA

I #@#@#3ing better be able to see that tale wiggle!
Old 03-09-2012, 10:09 AM
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I just can't see where the 360 does enough different or better than StructureMap to warrant the price tag. Our difference is you fish the blue water and I fish the green. My bait doesn't hang on the structure, but my target species will crash the bait and return to their related structure. That is why I think the structure is most important (to me). That is my point.

Edd

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