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Why not Simrad 4G Broadband Radar?!?!

Old 12-24-2011, 07:28 AM
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Default Why not Simrad 4G Broadband Radar?!?!

I am just starting to think about updating electronics (almost over sticker shock). In looking at radar options the Simrad 4g radar seems like a no brainer. It is a small boat (26' Grady), use is navigating a winding river (~8miles) to the ocean in the dark, collision avoidance in the soup (coastal Maine/NH/MA) and offshore. Antenna height is 10' which would give me a radar range of ~8 miles to a similar boat with a normal pulse radar (broadband can do that). Larger ship traffic would show with AIS as would weather with Sirus weather.

I am comparing to a 4kw dome because of budget... Am I on track with my thought process?
Old 12-24-2011, 10:19 AM
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Yup. Seems like a winner.

The broadband 4g gets knocked because it has limited distance (probably about 24-36 miles), but in reality 10 miles is about the most any radar of any power will see on a 26' boat. They are too low to see very far over the horizon and even a tanker won't show up after 10 miles. Besides, not many people worry about targets over 10 miles away?

Back in the old days, when people would navigate by radar and before sat weather existed, the argument was stronger. Now, you really don't need to pick up an island on radar at 20 miles to navigate. You also don't need to pick up storm fronts.

Even though I usually fish offshore, I'm considering switching to 4G. Unless I really make a large investment in a powerful open array, I'm not going to pick up birds no matter what radar I have. I don't pick up sportfish at 10 miles as it is with my 4kw 24hd dome, so no loss there.

The fdifference in cost is between ~$1800 and ~$5k. Huge difference for not much benefit to safety, if any at all. The 4G is probably a better collision avoidance tool given it's target discrimination and lack of main bang area.

I'm just not convinced that finding birds or where other boats are fishing is worth the extra cost.
Old 12-24-2011, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Boat Hound View Post
I am just starting to think about updating electronics (almost over sticker shock). In looking at radar options the Simrad 4g radar seems like a no brainer. It is a small boat (26' Grady), use is navigating a winding river (~8miles) to the ocean in the dark, collision avoidance in the soup (coastal Maine/NH/MA) and offshore. Antenna height is 10' which would give me a radar range of ~8 miles to a similar boat with a normal pulse radar (broadband can do that). Larger ship traffic would show with AIS as would weather with Sirus weather.

I am comparing to a 4kw dome because of budget... Am I on track with my thought process?
I'd say you are spot on the mark.

I used my 3G on a 22' WA to go from the Can 1 to Nun 64 on Chart 13248 (about 10 miles) in new moon darkness, once with no spotlight and once with. I had my own waypoints for the markers in GPS, but in shallow waters (2.5 to 14 ft) and narrow channels (down to 200 ft widths in shallow areas) you really don't want to hit the markers! With the 3G, I could always see the difference between my marked waypoint and where the radar saw them in the actual tide state, since they move around.

Also up above the Narrows, the markers get sparser and the last few miles are narrow and shallow. The land clutter very accurately represents the navigable channel between....I just "split the difference" and was AOK.

Let me strongly encourage you to get a heading sensor (I got the Simrad RC42) so that you can do radar overlay on your chart screen (I use a Lowrance HDS-10). You can do that for another 400 or so, or you can get a bargain price on a 3G and that will probably cover the cost of the heading sensor compared with the cost of the 4G.

The heading sensor/chart overlay is more important than the difference between the 3G and the 4G in performance, IME.
Old 12-24-2011, 05:28 PM
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Default I have a 4 KW furuno w 10 in navnet screen and would jump right into a broadband if $

Originally Posted by gerg View Post
Yup. Seems like a winner.

The broadband 4g gets knocked because it has limited distance (probably about 24-36 miles), but in reality 10 miles is about the most any radar of any power will see on a 26' boat. They are too low to see very far over the horizon and even a tanker won't show up after 10 miles. Besides, not many people worry about targets over 10 miles away?

Back in the old days, when people would navigate by radar and before sat weather existed, the argument was stronger. Now, you really don't need to pick up an island on radar at 20 miles to navigate. You also don't need to pick up storm fronts.

Even though I usually fish offshore, I'm considering switching to 4G. Unless I really make a large investment in a powerful open array, I'm not going to pick up birds no matter what radar I have. I don't pick up sportfish at 10 miles as it is with my 4kw 24hd dome, so no loss there.

The fdifference in cost is between ~$1800 and ~$5k. Huge difference for not much benefit to safety, if any at all. The 4G is probably a better collision avoidance tool given it's target discrimination and lack of main bang area.

I'm just not convinced that finding birds or where other boats are fishing is worth the extra cost.
The inclose info is the most important to me. And the broadband is going to be better there. The other thing is they use a lot less power for almost better inclose performance. So a 26 ft outboard is a prime boat to have a broad band. especially if people like to stand on the gunnels to see better on a CC w a T Top they wont be getting all that damaging radiation the old units throw out. So for a small boat go broad band if you can afford the change up or charge $ up.
Old 12-24-2011, 08:55 PM
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I can see channel markers within 20 feet of my bowrails/gunwales with the 3G....
Old 12-25-2011, 09:32 AM
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I am in the same situation as the above- 26 grady and about to add radar. After all the research I have done, I totally agree with the above. Broadband is the way to go. I run a HDS and a NSS currently and the broadband will work with both units. I am adding the heading sensor for overlay as I have seen it and believe its totally worth it. The question for me was is the 4G really worth the difference in price as compared to the 3G in a boat of 26 feet? I know the 4G has beam sharpening but is it taht big of a difference to be worth it? 3G is really cheap these days.
Old 12-25-2011, 10:31 AM
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A simrad rep told me that I would not benefit going from the 3G to the 4G on my NSS8. He said the processor was not fast enough on the NSS to see any benefits.

Can anybody explain this further?
Old 12-25-2011, 10:56 AM
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Here you o bws ... Some great info.

http://www.simrad-yachting.com/uploa...e_28-09-11.pdf


http://www.simrad-yachting.com/Produ...oadband-Radar/


The biggest one is you can't run the 4g using the split screen different ranges display on the NSS series mfd's.
Old 12-25-2011, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewaterpirate View Post
Here you o bws ... Some great info.

http://www.simrad-yachting.com/uploa...e_28-09-11.pdf


http://www.simrad-yachting.com/Produ...oadband-Radar/


The biggest one is you can't run the 4g using the split screen different ranges display on the NSS series mfd's.
There is a rumor that there will be an update out in the spring to enable that difference in functionality.
Old 12-25-2011, 03:45 PM
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So, should I buy the 3G or the 4G to go with my NSS8?
Old 12-25-2011, 04:33 PM
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No doubt ........ 4g
Old 12-25-2011, 08:42 PM
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I'm not so sure there is no doubt......If I had NSS gear I'd be inclined to go with the 4G just to prepare for the "road ahead". I'll persist in reiterating across a number of threads that the difference between the 3G and the 4G is less important than having a heading sensor to allow radar overlay on the chart screen. If you can afford the 4G AND the heading sensor, then that's the way to go.

If that's just a bit outside your price range, I'd suggest 3G plus heading sensor rather than 4G and no heading sensor.
Old 12-25-2011, 10:17 PM
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Good point CC best price on Simrad HDG Sensor right around $390. Best price on a 3G unit $1221 4G unit $1739
Old 12-26-2011, 06:43 AM
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Thanks ya'll.
I think I will go with the nss8, sirius weather module, heading sensor and the 4g radar and a through hull transducer.
I am really looking forward to having some top shelf electronics.
Old 12-26-2011, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bluewaterseeker View Post
Thanks ya'll.
I think I will go with the nss8, sirius weather module, heading sensor and the 4g radar and a through hull transducer.
I am really looking forward to having some top shelf electronics.
You'll get great results with that setup and will enjoy the touch entry of the NSS.
Old 12-28-2011, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewaterpirate View Post
Good point CC best price on Simrad HDG Sensor right around $390. Best price on a 3G unit $1221 4G unit $1739
Where did you find the heading sensor for $390
Old 12-28-2011, 01:39 PM
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BOE Marine 520
Amazon 695
Boaters Island 495
iBoats 548


As is often the case, to beat Jim's price at BOE, you usually have to order from some flaky site.

The Airmar H2183 seems to be sold under a Garmin label and is 770 on Amazon.

KVH sells lower cost ones with NMEA0183 interfaces, but seem harder to integrate....probably because its NMEA0183.
Old 12-28-2011, 05:27 PM
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BOE is the place ..... right starmarinedepot has it listed at 472.99
Old 10-17-2014, 08:39 AM
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Very interesting article,
After some great suggestions on the hull truth and feedback from Lowrance, I saved a ton by purchasing the 000-11047-001 Point-1 GPS antenna with built in compass for $199, this gets me my overlay capabilities.
For the life of me, I can not understand why the USA models of the 3G does not come with the RI10 interface box, and the 4G does. I do not need the interface box because I am running NMEA 2000 network. Guess I can sell the interface box if I choose the 4G.
I have everything installed on my 21' aluminum Northstar. I have not pulled the trigger on the unit yet.
3G or 4G????
I'm fishing mainly the San Juan Islands for salmon and will go outside 20 miles maximum. I could care less about seeing over 10 miles, but will the 4G be that much of a better unit for my needs? It does get really foggy and I navigate in the dark.
3G,4G,3G,4G?????
Any suggestions?
Old 10-17-2014, 08:48 AM
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4G all day long as long as your MFD can take advantage of the newer capabilities. For example, my NSS8 can't take advantage of the dual range of the 4G. However, my EVO2 12" can.

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