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HDS5 with Nautic Insight or get Navionics Gold (FL)

Old 08-15-2011, 12:41 PM
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Default HDS5 with Nautic Insight or get Navionics Gold (FL)

Central FL boater who boats a lot on west, east, st johns river, and keys. Also thinking of taking trips to western edge of bahamas, like bimini.

I haven't fished in a loooonnngggg time although I'm thinking of getting back into it.

Looks like

1) Nautic Insight gives me 3D maps, shaded contours, and great detail. Just not any photos. Plus all of the US. Cheap if I get with unit. Is this a card or built into unit?

2) Gold is just 2D. And it's only for certain regions. Doesn't seem like there's one navionics region that covers everything I need. Over twice as expensive.

3) Platinum adds 3D and photo images. Even more expensive. I figure I can just use google maps on my phone for images as a supplement to Nautic Insight. Even thinking of just mounting a phone cradle off to the side of the HDS 5

A) Is there screen/redraw speed differences between them?
B) What about tide info? Was playing with an HDS 5 in the store and I couldn't find tides anywhere.
C) How does one go about upgrading any of the above? Is it just buy new again at full purchase price?
D) How does one enter waypoints from the comfort of their home?
E) Do all three have info regarding marinas, fuels, POIs?

Thanks!!
Old 08-15-2011, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by happyfirst View Post
Central FL boater who boats a lot on west, east, st johns river, and keys. Also thinking of taking trips to western edge of bahamas, like bimini.

I haven't fished in a loooonnngggg time although I'm thinking of getting back into it.

Looks like

1) Nautic Insight gives me 3D maps, shaded contours, and great detail. Just not any photos. Plus all of the US. Cheap if I get with unit. Is this a card or built into unit?

2) Gold is just 2D. And it's only for certain regions. Doesn't seem like there's one navionics region that covers everything I need. Over twice as expensive.

3) Platinum adds 3D and photo images. Even more expensive. I figure I can just use google maps on my phone for images as a supplement to Nautic Insight. Even thinking of just mounting a phone cradle off to the side of the HDS 5

A) Is there screen/redraw speed differences between them?
B) What about tide info? Was playing with an HDS 5 in the store and I couldn't find tides anywhere.
C) How does one go about upgrading any of the above? Is it just buy new again at full purchase price?
D) How does one enter waypoints from the comfort of their home?
E) Do all three have info regarding marinas, fuels, POIs?

Thanks!!
The insight maps are nice. The shading on the contours is superior to navionics by far including the Fish n chip shading which shows the contours but the shading contours look poor compared to Insight. The insight shaded contours really look great. I have insight but use the Navionics most of the time because I want the sat images and navigate mostly off the images. Using google for the images on a phone will be highly impractical. Minor cost difference in my view. Get the navionics and switch back and forth depending on your trip. You will be glad you did. On the tides, Lowrance had their head up their azz with some of the programming. They buried tides way into their menus as a "Chart Item". You have to go into the menus a few levels to get to them. I was hoping their new software release would at least allow for some one button macro push options a user could program. Buring the Tides on a Marine GPS way into the menus instead of a quick readily accessible option is indicative of a programmer who probably never boats in the ocean if he ever goes on a boat.

There is no perfect unit. They all have their pros and cons. If Garmin would take a lesson from Lowrance on the Sonar and view screen technology and Lowrance would take a less from Garmin on the programming and intuitiveness/ease of use, maybe we could get close to something that would register few complaints.
Old 08-16-2011, 08:51 AM
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Thanks for the reply.

Originally Posted by Egret&Lab View Post
I have insight but use the Navionics most of the time because I want the sat images and navigate mostly off the images. Using google for the images on a phone will be highly impractical.
What is the quality of the images? What about clouds? Lots of times I scout areas out using google earth and the pics are not that great or the area is covered by clouds!

Do you navigate basically just by avoiding what looks like shallows? And not really care about channels? Or are markers,channels and contours still overlaid ontop of the photo image?

Originally Posted by Egret&Lab View Post
Minor cost difference in my view. Get the navionics and switch back and forth depending on your trip. You will be glad you did.
The cost difference to platinum+ instead of insight is almost $200 more. And then I've only got a small zone. I "think" it covers ALL of FL and the bahamas.

What's the cost of updates for platinum+. That I can't find. Is there an upgrade/update option?

$280 on top of insight for two sets of maps is just to much for me for now just to get pics. I'd give the phone a shot. Maybe I'll give the phone a shot this weekend. I've been using a Garmin 176C for the longest time now. Just hard to see and no sounder.


Originally Posted by Egret&Lab View Post
There is no perfect unit. They all have their pros and cons. If Garmin would take a lesson from Lowrance on the Sonar and view screen technology and Lowrance would take a less from Garmin on the programming and intuitiveness/ease of use, maybe we could get close to something that would register few complaints.
I hear you on that. For the longest time I was thinking of a Standard Horizon 300 simply because it was the cheapest unit that had a video input and I wanted to mount a camera on the transom. But the standard horizon can't make use of fuel flow sensors. Humminbird also can't use fuel flow sensors. Garmins are just too expensive lately although I was interested in that weather option they just came out with. But I can use my phone for that too. The HD5 seems like the best bang for the buck.

I still might lean back to the Standard Horizon, but don't know yet.
Old 08-16-2011, 05:43 PM
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The sat images on the plat + are google images. The question is what image did they select for the chip? For some areas you can find multiple historical images. The ones they have on the chip do not have clouds. But some they used are still not the best quality of those that were available to use. I dont know why. There was a thread about that recently with some actual photo comparisons.
http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-e...-platinum.html

As for navigating you can adjust the transparency of the sat images so its all photo or all map or any combination of sat. overlay so you can see both. I usually just use the mostly the sat, and find that works best for navigating shallows where I run. The sat images are clearly the better way to go for tight areas and shallows as the maps are not as accurate and do not show lots of cuts. I have been in many a canal or small cut and see myself spot on on the image but on the map, it looks like you are on land. I can post lots of examples of that.
Old 08-17-2011, 06:09 AM
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Default Nautic Path is 1/4 mile off in Bimini

If you stay only in the US, the Nautic Path charts that come with Lowrance generally have more data. If you go to Bimini, (read this twice) the Nautic Path charts are off by 0.24 miles. They will show your boat on land when you are in the channel between north and south Bimini. This means you can slam dead into the various rock islands that surround Bimini and your chartplotter won't care. The Lowrance system has no offset for this, like some other brands (Humminbird). The Navionics charts are correct in Bimini.

One cool thing I just did with the photo overlay in the Navionics. I was trying to go through a shallow unfamiliar channel with sandbars, etc. I was able to bring up the overlay and steer through the deeper parts of the channel using the photo image, which looks darker blue in deep water. Of course the image is not real time and sand bars shift, but it was still a pretty good guide. I still have props.
Old 08-17-2011, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by grubbab View Post
If you stay only in the US, the Nautic Path charts that come with Lowrance generally have more data.
Probably 99% of my boating will be FL and mostly in areas I'm already familiar with. I'd love to start doing trips to bimini maybe once a summer.

Originally Posted by grubbab View Post
If you go to Bimini, (read this twice) the Nautic Path charts are off by 0.24 miles. They will show your boat on land when you are in the channel between north and south Bimini. This means you can slam dead into the various rock islands that surround Bimini and your chartplotter won't care. The Lowrance system has no offset for this, like some other brands (Humminbird). The Navionics charts are correct in Bimini.
And nobody has reported this to Lowrance?


Originally Posted by grubbab View Post
One cool thing I just did with the photo overlay in the Navionics. I was trying to go through a shallow unfamiliar channel with sandbars, etc. I was able to bring up the overlay and steer through the deeper parts of the channel using the photo image, which looks darker blue in deep water. Of course the image is not real time and sand bars shift, but it was still a pretty good guide. I still have props.
I guess this is what it all comes down to. Do I want to navigate with old images instead of just charts? If I get back into fishing, am I really going to want to be able to look for grass lines? If platinum+ didn't have images, would most people just stick with nautic insight then? There's really no other major benefit to platinum+ ?

I finally found the navionics platinum+ update info. Basically 50% of the cost. Ouch, if I go with the $300 all fl/bahama maps. Although you get free updates for a year, so one only really needs to do it once every two years.
Old 08-17-2011, 02:47 PM
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its called map datum
Old 08-17-2011, 03:30 PM
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Still don't understand what that means. Lowrance is using the wrong one? Lowrance doesn't want to fix? Lorwance can't fix? Is it the maps or the unit?
Old 08-17-2011, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by happyfirst View Post
Still don't understand what that means. Lowrance is using the wrong one? Lowrance doesn't want to fix? Lorwance can't fix? Is it the maps or the unit?
You can buy the units with or without the Insight installed. I bought without and bought the Insight chip later. There's a new map update coming out in 2012 (don't know when) which will be available as a download from Lowrance. I don't know about the Bimini issue. I'm in southwest florida and there are areas of the map missing a lot of data. They look like rectangles. I'm told by Lowrance customer service that southwest florida was the only area. I'v never compared my Insight to Navionics.
Old 08-17-2011, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro251wa View Post
You can buy the units with or without the Insight installed. I bought without and bought the Insight chip later. There's a new map update coming out in 2012 (don't know when) which will be available as a download from Lowrance. I don't know about the Bimini issue. I'm in southwest florida and there are areas of the map missing a lot of data. They look like rectangles. I'm told by Lowrance customer service that southwest florida was the only area. I'v never compared my Insight to Navionics.
I was on the phone today with Lowrance inquiring about the Natical Insight map for the hds-5. They are out of stock the 2011 map and won't get anymore. They said I would have to get the 2012 map and they didn't know when it would be availible.
Old 08-18-2011, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by spikeo View Post
I was on the phone today with Lowrance inquiring about the Natical Insight map for the hds-5. They are out of stock the 2011 map and won't get anymore. They said I would have to get the 2012 map and they didn't know when it would be availible.
Check places like BOE Marine and Anchor Express. BOE is where I bought my units and chip.
Old 08-18-2011, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by happyfirst View Post
Probably 99% of my boating will be FL and mostly in areas I'm already familiar with. I'd love to start doing trips to bimini maybe once a summer.


And nobody has reported this to Lowrance?

.
I personally reported this to Lowrance via email and phone to customer service. I was told they use NOAA charts, which is the source of the problem The charts of the area around Bimini were originally drawn years ago, before GPS. My old C-map card had the same problem , but the Humminbird NS-25 let me put in a 305 degree .24 mile offset and everything lined up. Bluewater Charts used to have an article on their web site about this.

The Navionics charts are accurate. I would not go to Bimini without solving this issue, unless you unplug your chart plotter and navigate the old fashined way. There are too many shallow rocks to hit.

A funny note... I was in the Bimini Sands Marina 2 summers ago. I was talking to a group a 3 or 4 boaters about this. All said their charts were accurate in the area. I asked if I could see, and when they showed me their chart plotters, 2 of their boats were shown on land. I wonder what they see when they look at their chart plotters.
Old 08-18-2011, 09:57 AM
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Default Article about GPS offset in Bimini

https://www.bluewaterweb.com/newsletters/9-01gps.asp

>>The accuracy of a position plotted directly from GPS is, however, limited to the accuracy of the chart. A good example of this is the recent observation by two Bluewater customers within a week, both using electronic chartplotters, that the GPS was not accurate in the vicinity of the island of Bimini, on the western side of the Bahaman Islands. Interestingly, the customers were using chartplotters and digitized cartography from different manufacturers. Yet the complaint and the position errors provided by the chartplotters were exactly the same, placing the vessels approximately 200 yards on the island itself, while navigating into the harbor. How can this be?

Simply, the position of Bimini on National Imagery and Mapping Agency Charts and British Admiralty Charts is based on a chart first published in 1844, when surveyed positions were based entirely on celestial observations, hence the apparent error. It is rather amazing to me, that charted positions based on such observations are so accurate! Logically, the question arises, why not just correct the position of Bimini? Unfortunately, correcting charted positions is not that simple, for to move the position of Bimini on the chart would mean that all charted positions of other islands, shoals, coral heads, entrances, lights and so forth on the chart would also have to be corrected relative to each other.

Bimini is but one and not an extreme example of the difference between a charted position and the position of an island indicated by a GPS receiver. Many people cruising the Pacific complain the "GPS is off by half a mile in the Pacific." Many of the charts for the world, other than those areas with heavy commercial traffic, are based on surveys from the beginning of the nineteenth century.<<

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