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Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Old 04-14-2003, 08:04 AM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

This has been REALLY bothering me lately. Is it me or does EVERONE agree the electronic charts are just ALL a total RIPOFF!!!

Yes, I know it takes alot of work to mataine and arrange the data properly to work with devices.... BUT, the data is free for gods sake. We already paid for it. Our tax dollars are what creates the data. The only thing the companies selling it do is format it to their liking so it works with software.

So why do I have to pay almost $300 for one single chip of a couple hundred miles of area?? For gods sake, I have to buy Three C-Map NT+ SuperWide chips just to be able to cruise my local are (NY, NJ, CT, Martha's vinyard area). All within about 200 miles. THREE CHIPS, count em, ONE, TWO, THREE!!! At $300 a PEICE!!! That's more than my damn Chartplotter cost!!!

So I think C-Map splits the charts up across popular areas, like NY and NJ just to make everyone buy 2 or three charts instead of just one.

What's everyone else think? Am I nuts?

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Old 04-14-2003, 08:37 AM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Especially the part about the cutoff boundaries.
Ever notice that Cape May NJ (very populated port) is the cutoff for just about every chip chart I've seen.
The MFG's must figure that if the sucker spent 2G's or more for the plotter he'll go another 300 each for a couple chips.
And WE do !!!!

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Old 04-14-2003, 08:39 AM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

The worst thing is all the charts are that way,it is crazy. I went a step back in time when I bought the Blue chart from Garmin, now I have to enter my fishing spots in by hand as they are not on the chart anymore. I call Garmin and they tell me how accurate there navigational features are, is that not great in a place where you have been fishing forever. I am told now that I will need to buy the fishing chip and can swap it and the bluechart back and forth if I need navigation or fishing, isn't that special. It is a big racket.
My 2c worth.
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Old 04-14-2003, 08:55 AM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Don't judge all electronic charts by Garmin and C-Map. Nobeltec, Maptech, and Softchart make Raster
charts that are as good as paper charts and Nobeltec Vector charts are much better for Electronic Displays. One of these days NOAA will have their own Electronic charts. Using Electronic Charts you can have a large area much cheaper than paper charts....Noaa Electronic Nav Chart Info
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Old 04-14-2003, 09:04 AM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

quote:Originally posted by kglinz:
Don't judge all electronic charts by Garmin and C-Map. Nobeltec, Maptech, and Softchart make Raster
charts that are as good as paper charts and Nobeltec Vector charts are much better for Electronic Displays. One of these days NOAA will have their own Electronic charts. Using Electronic Charts you can have a large area much cheaper than paper charts....http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/mcd/enc/versions.htm

Maptech??? Are you KIDDING ME?? That sofware is even WORSE!!!! First off, it is $300 for a similar small area. I can buy Microsoft Mappoint software for $100. It comes on ONE CD. It covers the entire US, in detail down to every single Resturarant, Street, Hwy, side street, buyway, parkway.... You can type in a street address with NO city or state, and it will show you in 5 seconds EVERY sinlge Street in the country with that name that has that address on it. Click on one of them, and 2 seconds later, the Map draws THAT street and House marked on it for gods sake! ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!

Now, please tell me how good the Maptech ripoff is? Please.....

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Old 04-14-2003, 09:32 AM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

You have a good point there Birdman.
I have to say I am a little disappointed in the Navionics software. I used to run Lowrance software, alot of wrecks and info and dead nuts on. If I was over a wreck on the plotter I would see it on the sounder. Navionics is missing alot of my favorite wreck sites and the ones on the e- chart are harder to find. Yes, they did their homework on where to break the charts up, I guess I can't really blame them too much for that, it's their biz.
The price of the Navionics sounds a little better than C-map, I think I paid 180.00 for my area, the Lowrance was free....ah well, lets just say it came with the plotter.
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Old 04-14-2003, 09:41 AM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Birdman
I just took a Maptec Area and counted the NOAA chart list inclued in the area. It came to 194 charts for $199. Those were just the NOAA charts. Also on the disk are Coast Guard Photo charts of the area.( could be handy for a Birdman ). I guess a lot of it depends on where you operate and what you do. I'll admit I may go overboard, but I like looking at my display and seeing a chart of where I am in front of me. Not a map or a cruising guide but a real chart. With Softchart you can buy from the tip of Florida to the Canadian border for $ 750

[This message was edited by kglinz on 04-14-03 at 01:30 PM.]
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Old 04-14-2003, 10:25 AM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Kglinz,
What are you counting as "charts"?? Yeah, they take ONE US NOAA chart, break it into 85 little charts, and then call each one "a chart". Then, the claim there electronic charts cover 100's of charts. Ah, excuse me, but what happened to the ORIGINAL CHART (singular!).

Besides, WHO CARES!!! Hell, I can probably buy 5000 little maps of the US and cities.., does that mean Microsoft should charge me $25,000 (5000 X $5 each) for Mappoint software of the US??

What does that have to do with ANYTHING. This is my point: my cell phone is a PDA (Seimens SX56), it has 256MEG of RAM on it. IT cost a few hundred dollars. works as a Cell phone, Email computer, contacts, scheduler... the ussual office stuff, basically a little laptop. Then, I load Mappoint on it. Bingo, I have the entire US in the palm of my hand, for $100. And when I say ENTIRE, I mean Resturants (100's of thousands of them), Hotels, shopping centers, parks, recreation areas, BOAT RAMPS, on and on and on and on and on........ So, obviously the information is ALL available, easy to configure and format, and display, and fits on my cell phone for gods sake.

WHY AM I PAYING $300 for a few hundred miles of territory on a C-Map card?? To top it off, it says "tidal information included". I've now been using 3 C-map NT+ Wide cards for three years. I have YET to see ANY tidal information???? Lawsuit???

This really PISSES ME OFF and we should all be sounding off about it!!!

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Old 04-14-2003, 11:03 AM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Agreed, I'm counting a chart that may only cover a small harbor area. You know the one with the big submerged rock just to the right of the dock. I think paper NOAA charts are around $14 a piece. Any thing Marine costs big bucks. Take a Honda BF225 Engine with rigging and controls. You can buy almost the same engine with a car thrown in, for street use, for about the same money. As far as the "Free Data" I don't know if the Electronic chart makers pay the Goverment for data or not. I hope so. I would hate to see a guy with no boat in North Dakota paying for my chart. I've seen people navigating around the San Juan Islands using a place mat from a restaurant. I've also seen a $1.6m 65 ft Pacific Mariner that hit a rock, that was plainly marked on the chart, at 22 Kts. You make your choice and you pay your money.
Maybe you're paying your $300 for a chart instead of a couple of props or worse

[This message was edited by kglinz on 04-14-03 at 02:13 PM.]
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Old 04-14-2003, 12:26 PM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

i have the c-map superwide chart which covers narragansett bay to ocean city, md...and everywhere in between. that would be one chart of $300. you would probably need the one chart that covers the martha's vineyard, also. i know for a fact that the next chart to the north covers all the way to the canadian border...i was just planning a trip from downeast maine down to nj. i would have needed two superwide charts. i wound up buying the narragansett to ocean city chart used and paid only $150 for it.

but i don't think you are paying c-map or navionics or anyone for the charts. because i agree, if all you want are the charts, then they are expensive electronically. the port services and tides and all the other information compiled into one source are quite handy, though. i think what you are really paying for is the convenience factor...
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Old 04-14-2003, 12:34 PM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Capt,
Not to be a wise guy or anything, but I had a very hard time following that post? Are you ok with the price of C-Map (or any electronic charts for that matter) or are you un-happy??

Anywho, I paid $650 for two WIDE chart cards two years ago. They cover from Block Island (the eastern end of long island) to NY harbor. THAT'S IT!! $650??? GIVE ME A BREAK ALREADY!!!

PS- ALL the data for the charts is gotten for FREE. You too can download ALL the data, for FREE. The only thing they add, is the extra info (services stations...). The rest (charts and bouy data) is FREE to anyone who wants it.

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Old 04-14-2003, 01:35 PM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

i'm ok with it. i think we are paying for them to organize the data for us and put it in one spot. i'd rather spend my time catching fish than digging through charts and trying to figure out which one is which.

my main point is that you should NOT have paid $650 for that coverage. i have the one chart that provides that coverage, m-na-c321, the superwide chart. they retail for under $300 and you can usually buy at a show for less than that. i bought mine used for $150.
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Old 04-14-2003, 01:48 PM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Volume might explain some of the costs. They are selling to a relatively small market when compared to Microsoft, PDA's, etc. Although I would love to see the price come down, my 2 wide charts cover all of Florida and the Bahamas I need.
I am sure C-map and others are trying to work at certain margins in order to fund growth and keep employees employed. Imagine if they all decided that there just wasn't any money in the business and closed shop? We'd all be using the old Chart Kits. (and that really wasn't as much fun)
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Old 04-14-2003, 01:59 PM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

quote:Originally posted by captadamnj:

my main point is that you should NOT have paid $650 for that coverage. i have the one chart that provides that coverage, m-na-c321, the superwide chart. they retail for under $300 and you can usually buy at a show for less than that. i bought mine used for $150.

Capt,
I have C321 also. It covers up North. It DOES NOT cover NY Harbor, NJ or anything sout of there. It takes me 3 Wide cards, to simply cover Long Island including NYC. And that IS FACT.

I Emailed C-Map this morning, and that is EXACTLY what they told me to do, buy 3 cards. Secondly, there answer for having NO TIDE data as advertised was, "Your card has the tide data for Atlantic city". HUH? Atlantic city is 300 miles from Long Island. Can someone explain how you figure the high tide in Belport bay(Great South bay) from the Atlantic city tide table? Yeah, that's what I thought, ya can't!!! And THAT, is the closest tide port on a C-MAP chart. What a joke!!!

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Old 04-14-2003, 02:32 PM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Each region seems different, 2 C-map super wide cover from Puget sound to Portland canal Alaska or about 700 miles of coverage. Nobel tec requires 4 disks for the same coverage, The same coverage with paper charts would be more than $2000. It seems that for this area C-map is a better value than either cd or paper.
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Old 04-14-2003, 02:50 PM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Birdman,
I get all of the east coast of Fl, all of the Bahamas, and part of Cuba on 1 superwide chip for which I paid $155.00. I consider this good value.
I do not understand why you do not get a similiar
range and value up there
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Old 04-14-2003, 03:14 PM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Finadict
I got Nobeltec Canada P1 and P2 which covers part of the San Juan's to Alaska for $580 from Captn Jacks. That includes Vector charts,Raster charts and Photo charts. You can get NDI Raster P1 and P2 for $418

[This message was edited by kglinz on 04-14-03 at 06:41 PM.]
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Old 04-14-2003, 04:08 PM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

quote:Originally posted by mekut:
Birdman,
I get all of the east coast of Fl, all of the Bahamas, and part of Cuba on 1 superwide chip for which I paid $155.00. I consider this good value.
I do not understand why you do not get a similiar
range and value up there

Because they are RIPPING US OFF!! That's why. The purposely split major markets so we are forced to purchase several charts rather than one. I'm about five minutes away from a class action lawsuit on this subject with them. I've sent them an Email for which they have replied t half of, and promised to get back with the rest.

Part 1 is Tidal information or LACK OF. This they answered me on. The CONFIRMED they are misleading customers and are falsly advertising their product. I was told today, the closest Tidal port to Long Island, is Atlantic City, NJ?? HUH???? Take a look at a map folks.

Part 2 is, why major markets are obviosuly purposely split forcing us to purchase more cards. This one is so bad, they can't even answer me on it.

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Old 04-14-2003, 04:22 PM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Kglinz, still need Puget sound + SE Alaska hence the 4 disks, C-map is 2 super wide + 1 wide from Portland Canal to Glacier Bay (Cross Sound). I actually prefer the Nobeltec Navigation system to the C-map. Its just that the Furuno (with the c-map) is right in front of my nose. The display for the Nobeltec didn't fit in the electronics console so it lives in the overhead electronics compartment.
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Old 04-15-2003, 04:55 AM
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Default Electronic charts,(C-Map...) Ripoff??

Unfortunately ripoff or not cmap, navionics, bluecharts et al exist because there is a market for their products. Until such time that everyone deep sixes their chart plotters and return to paper charts (highly unlikely in this day of electronic fascination) you will continue to pay what the market will bear. Just
Break Out Another Thousand because there isn't anything you can do about it.
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