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A short chronicle of structure scan problem

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A short chronicle of structure scan problem

Old 06-30-2011, 09:13 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Nitecapt View Post
It's nice to see that someone has it working. I did a search on this forum about Navico support. Mostly I see disappointed people.
It's nice when you make a post like this, to include the age of your results. Lowrance is not the same it was 3 years ago. For me....the support staff are considerate, polite and diligent in their duties. I'll be installing the LSS-1 within the next 2 months.

Edd
Old 06-30-2011, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Captjeffg View Post
I have 2 nse -12 units and my structure scan works great. I can see wrecks in over 250 ft. I can see bait under sargasm out a couple hundred feet. I have the plastic transducer on my world cat.
Navico customer support has been great and the 3G radar is unbelievable. Very happy with Simrad.
Also my BSM-2 chirp is so baddazz. I can see bottom running at 28 knots 4000 ft deep.
My experience is similar to yours with Navico.
I have HDS-10's, BR-24 3G Radar, with a Airmar TM260. This system has been flawless so far. I have had excellent results from calling Navico also. I might have waited for two minutes when I called to ask a question. I am very pleased with this systems capabilities.
Old 06-30-2011, 10:17 PM
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Captjeffg
what is your contrast setting on? I'm hoping my problem is a setting issue. I going back out Saturday to find out. I've called their customer service 3 times and have always had to wait 10 - 15 minutes only to get short unhelpful answers so I have called local folks. If I can get a good read in 100 - 200 ft of water I will be happy and will tell the world. I'm using the transom mount that came with the system. Is there a better tansom mount out there?
Old 07-02-2011, 10:30 AM
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Love my NSE 12 with structure scan and feel like i am flying blind in other boats now. One thing to check is the cable that runs from the LSS-1 to the NSE. If it has been bent to much it can create a bad connection. I mentioned it earlier in the thread - have you checked that.
Can we see a picture of your install?
If Navico has supplied you with soo much to try to fix your problem why the heck are you so down on them?
Old 07-02-2011, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by yz250b View Post
Can we see a picture of your install?
If Navico has supplied you with soo much to try to fix your problem why the heck are you so down on them?
I have essentially 2 installs, the one mounted on the transom temporarily and the thru hulls which can't be seen unless I go below with wiring that is down below and comes up a chase to an area behind the dash that is now closed off. Or would you just like a photo of my dash?
Or the screen?
as to "why the heck" I'm so down on them, please consider putting yourself in my shoes. Cost of equipment plus hauling the boat plus transducer installation was in excess of $5,000.
It has been nearly 4 months since the installation was done and I have been communicating with their tech support. I run a charter operation and could have greatly benefited from a working system 3 months ago. I had promised an article on Structure Scan to a local fishing periodical in exchange for free advertising for my charter business and have now missed over 2 months of free ads. This is costing me even more money. Finally, the Cust Svc rep at Navico said he would look into rebates for me two months ago and never re-contacted me till now, with no mention of the rebates even after I have requested status on them twice. Finally...yes, you are correct in that they have sent me additional components to try and fix the problem, but it was like dragging them kicking and screaming through the process with unanswered tech support calls and unanswered emails. Delay after delay after delay. Are you meaning to say to me that 3 months is reasonable time to get answers to a system problem?

Others may have had a more positive experience, but I would guess that they were minor problems in nature. When a problem of the magnitude I have arises, I'm afraid they fail miserably.
Old 07-03-2011, 05:16 AM
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When watching the structure scan scroll is it returning in a smooth fashion or do you notice a stutter at all? I wanted picture of the wiring behind the nse to inure the LSS 1.
Old 07-03-2011, 01:57 PM
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It's not likely you have '2 complete' systems with the same BAD characteristics on the same boat. You need to get your 'highly qualified installer' to start looking for the COMMON DENOMINATOR.
More than once you have been asked for pics of the install and we have yet to see any. To be honest this is not being fair to Navico. I'm inclined to think they have asked you for things that you have neglected to give them. You're a professional fisherman and you should fish......your 'highly qualified installer' should be dealing with Navico.

Just some thoughts.

Edd
Old 07-03-2011, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Edd View Post
It's not likely you have '2 complete' systems with the same BAD characteristics on the same boat. You need to get your 'highly qualified installer' to start looking for the COMMON DENOMINATOR.
More than once you have been asked for pics of the install and we have yet to see any. To be honest this is not being fair to Navico. I'm inclined to think they have asked you for things that you have neglected to give them. You're a professional fisherman and you should fish......your 'highly qualified installer' should be dealing with Navico.

Just some thoughts.

Edd
Edd,
May I suggest you go back and read the prior posts? The highly qualified installer, installed the transducers. I think at one point, you refer to him as a technician. Be that as it may, I'm not going to ask the shipyard's transducer installer to troubleshoot something that only involved his transducer installation. Why do you think he, rather than I, should deal with Navico? I did my own install of the other components just as I have for 30+ years of running boats, including rewiring of complete 110v & 12v systems. I think I am capable of plugging two transducers into a Y connection then into the LSS1 and then plugging the provided cable into the NSE12 after providing a power to the LSS1.
Also, when "more than once" have I been asked for pictures of the installation? I see one request and that was yesterday and with a wife in the hospital, I'm not about to run down to the boat to take photos to provide a 24 hour response.
"To be honest this is not being fair to Navico. I'm inclined to think they have asked you for things that you have neglected to give them."
Why am not being fair to Navico? Why are you coming to an erroneous conclusion that I have not provided them what they asked for? Do you think I ENJOY having a system that doesn't work? Do you think I have an investment in being non compliant when I'm trying to write a complimentary article on structure scan? I could have written a scathing articl weeks ago. In fact, I have given Navico everything they have asked for and more, more photos (probably over 20 by now) different frequencies, the different setups, etc. You have not been given the complete history. The thread was "A short chronicle of structure scan problem" not "the entire history of structure scan problem" Please don't rely on assumptions about what I have given to Navico since you really don't know. If you are a Navico employee, be forewarned that this type of dialogue will only result in my posting of a complete chronology I have documented of calls, noting who I spoke to, emails (both mine and the replies) with complete names, addresses, content and dates.
I started out this thread not wanting to do this, but I am unnecessarily finding myself on the defensive.
Let me close by saying that I was contacted by the Navico tech on Friday and they are having someone contact me who will come down to the boat to see what is cooking on this system, hopefully within the next 2 weeks.
Old 07-03-2011, 04:30 PM
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I'm happy to report my structure scan is working better. In 110 ft of water i see the structure. It's not defined like being able to see tree branch limbs but you can distinguish a difference. I moved my transom mouted tranducer over and a little lower than my other transducer. My real problem now is with the 3G radar. I'm in a 21 ft CC and whenever I hit waves and get a good jolt I get a display on my screen where the arm is on the radar. I spoke to Lowrance last week and they asked me to have the installers recheck everything which they did. Anyone else have this problem? It like something is loose under the dome
Old 07-03-2011, 05:18 PM
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It's nice to see that you are happy with your Structure Scan. Have you seen this video? How does it compare?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62allBQil9s
Old 07-03-2011, 09:26 PM
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I've only tried in 100 - 120 ft of water and its not that clear. The video is in very shallow water. i will try to capture a picture and post. The radar issue has me concerned and I also have a bunch invested in installing everything
Old 07-04-2011, 10:35 AM
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Nitecapt,

Sent you a PM.
Old 07-06-2011, 08:22 PM
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Default Eureka!!

Navico sent an excellent rep out to see my installation. There was nothing wrong with the installation. I was behind the learning curve. Here's what I learned.
the grey palette seems to show better detail. The range function should be set out quite far. It will not pick up buoy anchors when you drive close, you are better off driving 30 feet from the buoy to see the anchor. This was the biggest surprise because when you watch the videos, they seem to be able to drive right by things and see them. Not so. Very shallow water will limit your side view to an extent but it's still acceptable.

Hat's off to Capt Terry for helping me through this issue and to Navico for sending him. I am now pleased with the product and have only 2 criticisms. First, the product needs a better manual that explains some of what I learned today. Secondly, I wish they had sent someone sooner. It's unfortunate I lost all that time.

I have attached a couple of photos of a sunken tug in my area sitting in a current scour. One of the shots is blurry due to my cell phone camera shake.

Thank you Navico for sending your rep!
Attached Images   
Old 07-07-2011, 09:08 AM
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Interesting..So, just to make this clear..

Navico's equipment worked fine the whole time, it was just operator error, correct?
Old 07-07-2011, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bayrunner16 View Post
Interesting..So, just to make this clear..

Navico's equipment worked fine the whole time, it was just operator error, correct?
Yea, that's what I was thinking. 3 pages of company bashing just to find out the system worked fine in the first place. How dare they not send a trained technician to the house of everyone who buys a unit! I bet Hummingbird does that, therefore making them a better product

I do give Nitecapt credit for admitting it though. Some would just have let the thread die and never given Navico credit for clearing things up.

Last edited by 270Handiman; 07-07-2011 at 09:57 AM.
Old 07-07-2011, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bayrunner16 View Post
Interesting..So, just to make this clear..

Navico's equipment worked fine the whole time, it was just operator error, correct?

No, it's just not quite that clear. Yes, the equipment worked, but no I would not say it's operator error. Trust me, if I make a mistake, I will be the first to acknowlege it and in part it is, however, I would encourage you to go to this site http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...-h34SC1r1c7Xrw

Download and read the manual. It outlines features but does no give a hint about how to get the desired results out of the unit. For example it doesn't tell you that an extended range in shallow water does not give you a great distance yield in terms of image. It does not say that you should avail yourself of different color palettes to get a desireable image. It does not say that extended range is favorable to get a better image in deeper water. It does not suggest that you use 455KHZ in relatively shallow water as I have learned (from members here not the manual) gives a much better image in water 25' or more. Finally, while I do not doubt that resolution as presented in the manual is achievable with the equipment, the learning curve is very steep and you need to have the time to experiment with the myriad settings that are available. Essentially, while the manual tells you what settings you have, it does not tell you how to set these to obtain maximum yield from the unit.

So to answer your question, I am willing to share with the writers of the manual the responsibility for not seeing what was there to be seen.
Old 07-07-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Nitecapt View Post
No, it's just not quite that clear. Yes, the equipment worked, but no I would not say it's operator error. Trust me, if I make a mistake, I will be the first to acknowlege it and in part it is, however, I would encourage you to go to this site http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...-h34SC1r1c7Xrw

Download and read the manual. It outlines features but does no give a hint about how to get the desired results out of the unit. For example it doesn't tell you that an extended range in shallow water does not give you a great distance yield in terms of image. It does not say that you should avail yourself of different color palettes to get a desireable image. It does not say that extended range is favorable to get a better image in deeper water. It does not suggest that you use 455KHZ in relatively shallow water as I have learned (from members here not the manual) gives a much better image in water 25' or more. Finally, while I do not doubt that resolution as presented in the manual is achievable with the equipment, the learning curve is very steep and you need to have the time to experiment with the myriad settings that are available. Essentially, while the manual tells you what settings you have, it does not tell you how to set these to obtain maximum yield from the unit.

So to answer your question, I am willing to share with the writers of the manual the responsibility for not seeing what was there to be seen.
Sorry..I reread my post and it sounds like I am a dickhead..Not my intent.
I meant to convey that the equipment worked and the install was alright, just wasn't tuned correct.
I have new HDS also, no structure scan though. I am still trying to get the sonar and radar tuned correctly. I agree with you there are no real good tuning tutorials. It definitely takes some user time to figure these things out.
Once again, sorry for sounding like a dickhead, wasn't my intent!! chris
Old 07-07-2011, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bayrunner16 View Post
Interesting..So, just to make this clear..

Navico's equipment worked fine the whole time, it was just operator error, correct?
Yes, if you read my post from the first page - that was what I was getting at.....
Old 07-07-2011, 11:07 AM
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In essence here, Nitecapt has been very frustrated and I believe it was TIME that created that feeling. He has absolutely proven Navico's dedication to Customer Service, and where he felt he was wrong, he stepped up and said so. His livelihood was somewhat threatened from this process, and I'm sure he feels better than before.

Good job Navico and thanks to Nitecapt for reporting the final findings.

Edd
Old 07-07-2011, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 270Handiman View Post
Yea, that's what I was thinking. 3 pages of company bashing just to find out the system worked fine in the first place. How dare they not send a trained technician to the house of everyone who buys a unit! I bet Hummingbird does that, therefore making them a better product

I do give Nitecapt credit for admitting it though. Some would just have let the thread die and never given Navico credit for clearing things up.

I wasn't bashing, just making a record of the response. Nothing changes the fact that this took over 3 months. Navico deserves credit where credit is due. In my "other job" I can be very critical of people who work with me that don't perform as expected, I am also VERY quick to give accolades to those that DO perform and the absolute first to admit when I am wrong.

I wrote a personal note to teh people at Navicop thanking them for their assistance. In fact, I like the NSE 12 display SO much, I would get another to replace my Northstar 6000I if I could afford it. I am convinced that for the money, there is no better display on the market.

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