Notices
Marine Electronics Forum

Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

Old 09-18-2004, 10:55 AM
  #1  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Miami FL
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

I can supply specific names offline or over in the Captains Corner if needed, so don't ask for details please at the risk of getting us all in trouble...We were in Newport, RI yesterday (in search of a new/slightly used powerboat) and spent the day at the show.

1. I mentioned to the guy at a major big box retailer's booth that we were looking at Furuno NavNet and asked if he preferred NT or Navionics. He asked what we have now and I told him Garmin w/Bluechart. He said "you won't get the same appearance from either as you get with Bluechart" and then shut up. I pressed him and he said "well, what do you expect from 10 year old technology". We were staring at the Furuno NavNet 10.4" GPS display at the time.

2. Sitting on a 35' production cruiser a little later. I mentioned that if we went with both upper and lower steering stations that the NavNet would be a good option for new construction. This guy seemed very knowledgable and was holding up his end pretty well at this point, then he said "well, it's your choice but we see a lot of those come back in broken" and gave the old raised eyebrow.

What's up here? Is there a quality issue with Furuno and NavNet or did we just talk to the wrong guys? Now my wife is saying that we should reconsider the whole networked electronics thing and stick with the manufacturers and interfaces that we understand. I'd appreciate some advice on this, for sure! (I did see the posts about the slow screen redraw problems, etc. but not much else negative about the products)

Thanks.
sblunden is offline  
Old 09-18-2004, 03:52 PM
  #2  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member

PLEDGER
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Outer Banks, NC
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

I have had the Furuno NavNet installed on my new boat since May and it has performed flawlessly. I went with a total Furuno system including 10" & 7" display, autopilot, VHF and depth. Everything interfaces together well and no problems. My last chartplotter was a Garmin 2006, and I will say that the chart detail was a little better, but not enough for me to stay away from the Furuno system. Also, Furuno has the best customer support in my opinion.
Reel Obsession is offline  
Old 09-18-2004, 04:57 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Mass.
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

I was just out again offshore for two days on my friend's boat with the networked NavNet components. It reinforced my view that they are excellent standalone units with lousy plotters. He has a 7" display on the tower, where I spent many hours. The sounder display worked very nicely up there over the network, but you needed to bring a magazine along to use the chartplotter. Just changing scale required what seemed like literally a two minute wait for the refreshed screen.

His system was installed by one the top outfits on the east coast. We actually called their head guy from the satphone. He said that there was nothing wrong -- that if you cared about the redraw, you had to put a chart card in the unit and let it get its data directly, not over the network.

I have also seen one of the early Northstar networked systems and it had issues of its own, especially in the radar mode. I don't personally have experience with the Simrad or Raytheon networked products to compare.

I'm not sure I would concur in the comments about the superiority of the Garmin cartography. At least versus Navionics, the difference is largely cosmetic. I have them side-by-side on my boat and there is no real reason to pick one over the other from the standpoint of chart detail. The Garmin is a little prettier, I agree.
Saltdog is offline  
Old 09-18-2004, 06:53 PM
  #4  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 2,538
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

If you are networked the chart redraw is really slow. If it is a huge deal, just put in another chart card. Networked components do so much more than just that. If you went with seperates, most likely you couldn't operate 2 FF's simultaneously. If you went to the bridge and forgot to turn off the other, you would have to go back down and turn it off and back up to the bridge. You could rig only the bridge and NMEA the depth to the lower station and you would have digital depth, but no bottom machine.

I think it probably comes down to profit and bonuses. Ray is aggressively marketing the C series and giving alot of incentives. Furuno has a $800 for a 10" Navnet component. I was floored when I saw that. It just doesn't happen that often and for so much. I would be even more suprised if you had any problems whatsoever, with your networked system, if properly installed.
Somethin-Fishey is offline  
Old 09-18-2004, 07:51 PM
  #5  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: LINDENHURST, NY
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

I have a NAVNET for nearly 3 years...has worked everytime right out of the box! I know nearly a dozen others who have NAVNET and between all of us, they have gone back to dealers or factory for SOFTWARE UPGRADES only! DO a search on the other brands and I'm confident that you will find FURUNO has the least amount of factory returns right out of the box. As mentioned, that fellow must be representing or selling for a brand that puts more money in his pocket!

The networking is slow without a second chip. But that is an easy fix and relatively cheap.

The "technology" is just as old for GARMIN as it is for FURUNO. But it looks nicer on the blue charts (I have BOTH, side by side) As far as getting to where I want to go, I have confidence in both, it is just nicer on the Blue Chart. But until next year that isn't a network option, and GARMIN can't compete with the FURUNO FF and I would not want first year RADAR from a company (Garmin) that never had a radar module. There are differences in C-Map, NAVIONICS and Blue Chart but that is in the display characteristics. A lesson I learned this summer was that they ALL use the same charts to make their chips!
Big E is offline  
Old 09-18-2004, 09:32 PM
  #6  
edk
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 1,139
Received 23 Likes on 17 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?


I have a networked NAVNet installation (single station) and have had no problems in the two years I have been using it. The only service call I had on it was for a software upgrade and the technician that did it told me that they rarely saw NAVNet equipment unless they were upgrading the software on it. I have separate chips (C-Map) in each unit and don't have a problem with redraw speeds (the software update included fixes to improve the redraw speed). The chips I have are different (one wide+ chip and one bathymetric) so I am reading charts across the network at times.

The people that you spoke to at the show were probably blowing smoke to get you to buy their preferred brands. The "big-box" retailers don't like selling Furuno as Furuno are not as co-operative with them as other manufacturers when it comes to packaging the product for the retailer and giving them special deals. Furuno also do not enter into reseller deals with boat manufacturers where the manufacturers rig boats with the electronics at the factory. Raymarine have got into that market in a big way - was the 35' cruiser rigged with Raymarine equipment?

If I were you I would go to a local electronics installer that has no ties to a specific brand and ask them the pros and cons of installations on whatever boat you are buying. I can highly recommend Furuno NAVNet based on my experience with it. I like Garmin too, but they don't do radar and their FF technology does not come close to Furuno.

Ed
edk is offline  
Old 09-18-2004, 09:43 PM
  #7  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 1,092
Received 195 Likes on 89 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

I've run my NavNet system almost daily since May. It never ceases to amaze me. While the redraw can be a tad slow, the system aas a whole is outstanding. I wish you could have pushed the gentleman a little harder as to what he meant.

I know West Marine is getting rid of Furuno (albiet slowly) Not for lack of quality, but because the average consumer won't spend the $$$ and doesn't want to put in the time to learn the system.

In my area (Massachusetts) if you go to a marina where the majority of the boats are commercial (i.e. Lobster, fishing, tugs etc) you'll see that the VAST majority use Furuno. These guys beat this stuff daily and thats their choice.

I think you may have found someone with an agenda. Like I said, West (and affiliates) are dumping Furuno bit by bit. If your confidant had ANY relation to West or any of their other stores it would explain allot.

FWIW I have CMap NT on my system. A buddy has Navonics on his C80 Ray machine and both work very well.
RiptideCharters is offline  
Old 09-19-2004, 07:45 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: West Palm Beach,FL,USA
Posts: 1,306
Received 35 Likes on 21 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

EDK is absolutetly right. Furuno (and others) will not play the West game (which is kinda like a corporate bribe) and so don't get the support. It reminds me of the old days when Skipper's was in business. They really pushed their "Best Buy" category. Unfortunately it was THEIR best buy, not the customers. Many years ago when I worked for a discount chain ,since absorbed by another, the pay was lousy. Manufacturers offered "spiffs" for the salesman to push their product. It was amazing what a $200 per week guy would sell if it put a ten or twenty in his pocket.
Fururno to my knowledge does not sell OEM. Most OEM installations are done by less then qualified people and set up poorly. Ask a Raymarine Dealer and they'll tell you. Raymarine has to pay them to fix the OEM nightmares.
cravenMH is offline  
Old 09-19-2004, 10:52 AM
  #9  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Miami FL
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

Thanks to everyone...These comments confirm what I've heard everywhere except at the boat show. Also, I was going to ask if I needed 2 chart chips for 2 displays and it sounds like I want to go that way. This is a great place!

Steve
sblunden is offline  
Old 09-19-2004, 11:53 AM
  #10  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 1,857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

If you are going to do a network the navnet is really the only game in town...c series isn't/not yet available for that type of application.

Sounds like the "spiff" was a lot higher on what the guy was trying to sell you. Chances are the other brand was passing a show incentive to the dealer and he was therefore trying to push it on you. Next show he might be pushing the navnet.

scott-hydra24 is offline  
Old 09-19-2004, 07:20 PM
  #11  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: mass/Point Judith, RI dockage
Posts: 11,897
Likes: 0
Received 464 Likes on 271 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

Scotty, Navnet may be fine, but it isn't the only game in town. Raymarine still sells a netwrked system, although they are really puching the new c-series which as you say doesn't support it. However, they do have a very good line of networked systems.
gerg is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 04:50 AM
  #12  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 2,538
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

gerg - 9/19/2004 8:20 PM

Scotty, Navnet may be fine, but it isn't the only game in town. Raymarine still sells a netwrked system, although they are really puching the new c-series which as you say doesn't support it. However, they do have a very good line of networked systems.
They are ACTUALLY still trying to sell that stuff??????
Somethin-Fishey is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 08:13 AM
  #13  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 1,857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

somethin apparently...but I wouldn't buy it

The C series is great, previous Raymarine stuff I'm a little sketchy on. I can't complain ~240 hours on my C series without so much as a minute down.

scott-hydra24 is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 11:27 AM
  #14  
Admirals ClubCaptains Club Member Admiral's Club Member
THT sponsor
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brookhaven, LI, NY
Posts: 15,759
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 17 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

I can't speak for the lonmgevity of the Furuno product directly, but I have never herd of "quality" type issues with them. They have a very good reputation.

BUT, I can tell you feature for feature comparisons come up with Raymarines C120 (or 80...) blow away everyone elses chartploter/radar/FF combos right now. I compared all the units available right now, at the Newport Boat show this weekend, and can tell ya, it's not even a close match right now. Unless you definitely need networked units, if you you don't get the Ray C series, your NUTS.
Birdman is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 04:21 PM
  #15  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Miami FL
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

Welll, I AM nuts...that's pretty well established! Nothing to do with the choice of electronics, tho. I'll take a closer look at the RayMarine hsb2 stuff. Thanks.

Steve
sblunden is offline  
Old 09-21-2004, 09:03 AM
  #16  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

Slightly off topic: I am hearing from a local electronics dealer, as well as folks at my boat yard, that Furuno is about to replace their sounders (582 etc.) as well as Navnet multifunction units. Due to recent discounts from electronics shops and factory rebates from Furuno, I assume the rumors are true. Does anyone know? If so, any intel on the new offerings?

I was about to buy a new Furuno unit myself, but based on the above, and the fact that the season here (New England) is nearly over for me, I probably will "wait and see" for a while.
Paul is offline  
Old 09-21-2004, 11:54 AM
  #17  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Rhode Island
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Scary comments - Newport Boat Show?

I personally think you can't beat Garmin and Bluechart for GPS.

For Fishfinders, I don't like Garmin. I went with Si-Tex, after comparing the Si-Tex CVS-106L with the Furuno 600 color unit. Believe it or not, after seeing/demo-ing both side-by-side, the Si-Tex had much better clarity, was easier to use with more options/adjustability, and was much more economical than the Furuno. Has performed flawlessly for me, no complaints at all.

For Radar, I would certainly consider Furuno, but there are others I will be considering.

(Hardtop & Radar is my winter project)
74Formula233 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.