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-   -   NMEA V2.3 sentence question (https://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/2720-nmea-v2-3-sentence-question.html)

Kman 11-23-2003 05:02 PM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
Does anyone know if the format for the GPRMC sentence has changed from NMEA version 1.5 to version 2.3? Specifically, did the speed format change? Ya I know, geek talk, but one little change can take legacy instruments out of the loop.

I'm looking at a Garmin 2010 installation manual, and I don't see where you can dumb down the NMEA from 2.3 to 1.5. I installed a 2006 yesterday, and everything is listening except the Standard Horizon repeater and the Yamaha engine management system. Gonna have to whip out the laptop...

Thanks,

Kurt

john sturdivant 11-23-2003 08:04 PM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
I have the 2010 and I see no way to change the version downwards.In the menu it is either NMEA on or off or default with a few sentence options.I have thought about this since upgrading from a Garmin 215 unit.Right now it is putting out info to a JRC 3000 radar,Standard spectrum,Furuno 582l and a sitex SP 80 autopilot.All are showing good data but the AP seems not to like version 2.3.It tends to really get off course where with the 215 it held steady at version 2.0.I am interested in other responses to this thread! I had to talk to standard about intefacing the radio to the Garmin,at first it would not work.I interfaced in both directions but only needed 3 wires,since the garmin NMEA ground is the boat ground it did strange things to the radio with both spectrum NMEA grounds hooked up.

JOHN
SPORT-CRAFT 252

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Kerry 11-23-2003 08:52 PM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
Changed yes, but nothing to do with the speed format, which is still Speed over the ground in knots.

With version 2.3 some sentences (including RMC) have had a mode indicator variable added just before the checksum.

Cheers, Kerry.

I never get lost, everybody tells me where to go!

Kman 11-23-2003 09:10 PM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
quote:Originally posted by john sturdivant:
I have the 2010 and I see no way to change the version downwards.In the menu it is either NMEA on or off or default with a few sentence options.I have thought about this since upgrading from a Garmin 215 unit.Right now it is putting out info to a JRC 3000 radar,Standard spectrum,Furuno 582l and a sitex SP 80 autopilot.All are showing good data but the AP seems not to like version 2.3.It tends to really get off course where with the 215 it held steady at version 2.0.I am interested in other responses to this thread! I had to talk to standard about intefacing the radio to the Garmin,at first it would not work.I interfaced in both directions but only needed 3 wires,since the garmin NMEA ground is the boat ground it did strange things to the radio with both spectrum NMEA grounds hooked up.

JOHN
SPORT-CRAFT 252

*

This NMEA thing is getting ugly. Common grounds vs floating grounds, RS232 vs RS422 voltages--yuck!

In your situation, I'd capture a few pages of raw data onto a laptop and email it to the Sitex folks and ask them to spot the offending sentence. Between Sitex and Garmin, hopefully one of them is flexible enough to accommodate the other. Shoot, my crappy old Lowrance hand held GM100 lets you choose NMEA versions and even turn on and off sentences. Garmin makes great plotters, but I'm a little disappointed in their NMEA documentation and limited feature set. Look, plotters are talkers and they should be flexible IMO to accommodate as many listeners as possible. Of course I’m talking from a user’s perspective. Being flexible may not help their market share.

Kman

ClassicGuy 11-24-2003 04:17 AM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
Well this is interesting. I have a Garmin 2006C and a Furuno Navnet 1833C radar/plotter. The NMEA ouputs from each are hooked up through an on/off/on switch that allows me to select which GPS unit is supplying signal to my autopilot, DSC radios, and Yamaha FuelManagement gauge. The Yamaha gauge has never worked properly with the Garmin output, though everything else does. I finally ended up hard wiring it to the Furuno.

Has anyone ever seen the Yamaha input specs? Even my dealer couldn't find it anywhere in their service documentation -- just says "connect to NMEA output from GPS".



The Furuno menu allows you to choose NMEA version and turn on or off sentences one at a time

Kman 11-24-2003 07:24 AM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
quote:Originally posted by john sturdivant:
I have the 2010 and I see no way to change the version downwards.In the menu it is either NMEA on or off or default with a few sentence options.I have thought about this since upgrading from a Garmin 215 unit.Right now it is putting out info to a JRC 3000 radar,Standard spectrum,Furuno 582l and a sitex SP 80 autopilot.All are showing good data but the AP seems not to like version 2.3.It tends to really get off course where with the 215 it held steady at version 2.0.I am interested in other responses to this thread! I had to talk to standard about intefacing the radio to the Garmin,at first it would not work.I interfaced in both directions but only needed 3 wires,since the garmin NMEA ground is the boat ground it did strange things to the radio with both spectrum NMEA grounds hooked up.

JOHN
SPORT-CRAFT 252

*

DOH! Realized since I have the 2010 and a laptop dedicated to NMEA "issues" I can vacuum a couple pages of Garmin's output and emial it to you. You can then send it to your AP folks and ask wazzzzzzzzzzup.

KUrt

Kman 11-24-2003 07:29 AM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
quote:Originally posted by ClassicGuy:
Well this is interesting. I have a Garmin 2006C and a Furuno Navnet 1833C radar/plotter. The NMEA ouputs from each are hooked up through an on/off/on switch that allows me to select which GPS unit is supplying signal to my autopilot, DSC radios, and Yamaha FuelManagement gauge. The Yamaha gauge has never worked properly with the Garmin output, though everything else does. I finally ended up hard wiring it to the Furuno.

Has anyone ever seen the Yamaha input specs? Even my dealer couldn't find it anywhere in their service documentation -- just says "connect to NMEA output from GPS".


Boy are you the guy I need to talk to. I just installed a 2006, and it is talking to everything but a Standard Horizon repeater and the Yamaha fuel management gauge (the white wire).

Yamaha sucks at documentation, and their csutomer service is a broken record instructing you to call their clueless dealer.

First off: What wire is what on the Yammi fuel gauge (there are three). What little documiintation I have says to set dip switch #6 to the up position for the gauge to pick up speed via NMEA.

ClassicGuy 11-24-2003 08:43 AM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
I don't have ready access to my boat or the documentation since it is all put away for the winter, so this is from memory. But if you look at the green card that comes with the Yamaha fuel management gauge, I believe you will see that both dip switches 5 and 6 need to be reset to go from speedo input to GPS. I believe that the other wire (black is ground) is for the speedo input, so you should disconnect them and just use the white wire to your NMEA (+) from the Garmin Port 2, which is the gray wire from the power/data cord. If there is a common ground between your engine and your electronics, you do not need to connect the black ground wire from the fuel management gauge to the Garmin ground. Make sure you set port 2 to NMEA out, not Garmin proprietary.

If you do this, it may work. You don;t have any other GPS speed signal output besides the Garmin?

Birdman 11-24-2003 11:00 AM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
Kman,
I suggest you read this thread, particularly my last post to it. Even though I was refering to a Raymarine GPS, it's the same thing, just a different color wire from your Garmin instead of Raymarine. But the ground info you will probably find VERY usefull.

http://thehulltruth.com/6/ubb.x?a=tp...093#1666023093

Birdman, Capt of
http://members.aol.com/ccarrara/fishing/sig1.gif
Scout Abaco 280 Click here!

Kman 11-24-2003 08:07 PM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
Hey good stuff. Thank you. I already tried the port two thing w/white wire only and no joy. These extra things may help.

If all else fails
1 I'll hook up a cheapo backup GPS (with old NMEA) and have it feed the Yammi gauge.
2. Try one of those NMEA filters. They make them to dumb down and even remove sentences.

Kurt

PS I thought selecting "Garmin Proprietary" gave you the extra Garmin sentences in addition to the normal NMEA sentences. No?

ClassicGuy 11-25-2003 04:24 AM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
I would check the dip switches again, both for the correct settings as depicted in the green card and to make sure they are actually engaged. I had to play with mine a bit because they gave the illusion of being in position, but weren't. Also try hooking up the black ground wire on the FM gauge to the Garmin ground, though that is not likely to be the problem if your engine ground is shared by the Garmin already.

What a pain this is -- I think Yamaha has not reworkedthat gauge since 1996.

They are going to introduce a new series of digital gauges next year somewhat like the Mercury Smartcraft.

Kman 11-25-2003 07:59 AM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
I did the DIP dance a couple times but no joy. Ditto for Garmin Proprietary. Didn't try the black wire.

Not done yet. I'm going back with the NMEA bag of tricks: A legacy GPS that has talked to every stubborn listener so far, and a laptop with software that can talk/listen/interpret various sentences.

Anyone tried a filter like these?

http://www.marinelektronik.se/faq.htm

http://www.marinelektronik.se/pdf/ferr1.pdf

*

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ClassicGuy 11-25-2003 08:56 AM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
I can tell you from direct experience that when connected to my Furuno 1833C with the port set to transmit only the SOG sentence with either NMEA 2.0 or 1.5 format, the Yamaha FM gauge works fine. It actually works with the other sentences needed by my autopilot also turned on, but seems to hang up sometimes with more data.

In my case, I do need to hook up the NMEA (-) lead from the Furuno to the black wire on the FM because Furuno seems to have an isolated ground for the data ports.

Birdman 11-25-2003 03:38 PM

NMEA V2.3 sentence question
 
Just for reference, I have everything (all sentences) turned on in my Raymarine GPS NMEA output. Has no effect, works fine.

"The dip switch dance" is RIGHT!! If you look closely, the dip settings on the green card are reversed from the dip settings in the Yami manuals as well as the gauge itself. By "reversed" I mean, up is on, and down is off. BUT, on the guage, UP is OFF and down is ON... After checking closely, the are all documented correctly with the correct on/off/on.... stuff, just that sometimes they show on up and somtimes on is down... http://thehulltruth.com/infopop/emot...n_rolleyes.gif

You'd think they designed them in Australia or somtin'?? Anywho!!

The next version of those gauges better have standard NMEA CONNECTOR PLUGS on the back, or I'm personally going to the headquarters in Georgia to slap somebody!!! http://thehulltruth.com/infopop/emot...on_biggrin.gif


(suddenly that song came to mind: "Well now the devil went down to Georgia, looking for a soul to steal.... " I don't knoiw why? )

Birdman, Capt of
http://members.aol.com/ccarrara/fishing/sig1.gif
Scout Abaco 280 Click here!


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