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Radar Help

Old 02-03-2003, 08:56 AM
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I'm looking into purchasing a radar for my boat. Mainly to be used in fog and at night to avoid other
boats/obstacles. Any recomendations on type and/or power??

Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2003, 09:41 AM
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How big a boat? Hardtop? T-Top? Other things already mounted up there?

How big (or small) a budget?

Where are you going to put it? How big (small) a space do you have?

Are you going to install & set-up, or have it done?

2002 GW Islander 270 - 2001 Yam 250 OX66. Fishin' & cruisin'
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Old 02-03-2003, 10:17 AM
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23' Center console, Hardtop with vhf antenna and GPS antenna mounted on top.

Budget is up to 3K, but would like to stay around 1500-2000 if possible. Space is an issue, no room for a 10" screen. Would prefer color. Currently have simrad ce33 chart/echosounder combo mounted in console. Have space next to that for small radar unit.

Current plan is to install myself.
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Old 02-03-2003, 11:09 AM
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Why not buy a brand new Furuno 1622?

It's a 2.2 kW radome with a monochrome LCD screen. Cost: $999
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Old 02-03-2003, 11:26 AM
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I just bought the JRC 3000 CRT from consumers marine for $1539 plus $125 factory rebate. The 3000 is a 4Kw, 4 degree beamwidth instrument. Easy to install, doing the installation this weekend if the weather is nice.
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Old 02-03-2003, 08:36 PM
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I personally like Furuno but whatever you do, stay away from Raymarine unless you enjoy products that don't work and service that doesn't exist.

FOR SAIL
A 27' Tiara Express...for now
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Old 02-04-2003, 06:22 AM
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If you want to stay well under that budget max of $3K, then go for a good, 7" LCD monochrome radar. Furuno 1712 (or 1722 now?) is a really nice unit. CRT radars are a bit less costly, but you need more depth for the mounting location. JRC makes nice units at a good price.

I have a Si-Tex T-721 color radar, and it is great. Got a super deal on eBay, plus a $300 rebate, so it didn't cost much more than LCD monochrome.

Some specifics:
1) 2KW is minimal, but enough for avoiding obstacles and other boats at night or in low vis.
2) 3KW or 4KW nice, but costs more.
3) radome units easier to install. 18" unit nice, but wide beam width can make target discrimination a bit difficult (i.e. two contacts close to each other may appear as one). 24" radome recommended.
4) open array radar has better beam pattern, but probably a bit large for your boat. also, you don't want to move current VHF and GPS antennas unless essential.

Good luck,
Brian

2002 GW Islander 270 - 2001 Yam 250 OX66. Fishin' & cruisin'
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Old 02-05-2003, 01:12 PM
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Raymarine (foremaly Ratheon), PERIOD. Hands down the best Radar out there for small boats. Best bang for the buck.

Birdman, Capt of
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Old 02-05-2003, 01:38 PM
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I will disagree with raytheon for radar also, many charter guys who ran them here in mass have changed to furuno, and were seeing more simrad in the commercial crowd. as far as best bang for the buck I would say that title goes to jrc hands down. We put serious hours on our radars and raytheon just dosnt perform like the furunos do. Im talking true world experience,not artcicles,advertisements etc... I commercialy fish,I talk to commercial fisherman,I fish with commercial fisherman, raytheon dosnt have a good reputation with the fishing crowd through trial and experience. good luck

Fish on !!
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Old 02-05-2003, 01:44 PM
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Rabalo,
You can't compare the Furono and Raymarine to the Simrad. Simrad is a whole different ballpark and bank roll needed. I love the Simrad stuff, but it ain't cheap.

As far as Furuno, it's the exact oposite here on LI with RADAR. Furono makes a fine FF but the Radar is not quite as good while the prices are the same.

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Old 02-05-2003, 02:18 PM
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Roballocc,

How do you like the user interface on Furuno radar?

The reason I ask is that I've got a Raymarine radar, and although it performs well, I sometimes find the interface unnecessarily difficult. The example I like to gripe about to anyone who'll listen is that I have to use FOUR different buttons to adjust the display brightness.

I'm not in the market for a new radar (yet), but the clunky interface makes me think about jumping to something else.

Fuzzy
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Old 02-05-2003, 03:03 PM
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Yep, you got that right. Raymarine needs to work on the "user-freindlyness" or lack of in their software. But Foruno isn't much better there.

Birdman, Capt of
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Old 02-05-2003, 03:30 PM
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Birdman, where are you getting pricing for Simrad?
There is very little difference between Furuno, Raytheon, and Simrad when comparing apples to apples in radar.
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Old 02-05-2003, 03:52 PM
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I have a 1832 furuno, as far as user friendly goes,its better than the raytheon/raymarine its a little more straight forward but not great bye any means . When I say furuno is better,I dont mean when the units are running,If you take similar radars with the same kw,beam angle,height mounted,and antennas they will all perform the same if not very very close.What seperates each unit is the bells and whistles. As far as bells and whistles the raytheon actualy has more than the furuno in comparable models.I know cause I ran raytheons many times and still run one in a blackfin we take to the canyons. What sets the furuno apart is that its bye far ,superior in quality .I know countless boats with raytheons that went back for service,repairs etc.. and still had bugs that werent worked out ,and the raytheon service leaves alot to be desired, I know first hand although Im going back 4 years. I havnt talked to one captain that changed from furuno to raytheon although I can name 10 off the top of my head that have gone with furuno from raytheon in just the past 2 years.Were talking boats that put on 500-3000 hours a season . I plan on putting the furuno on my future sea vee and put a new 3000 jrc on my current hydra sports just because there cheaper $ . Maybe it is a regional following as birdman says, I just know what my experience has been. The good thing is that all the main players all make decent radars today without needing a second mortgage unlike some years back. good luck

Fish on !!
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Old 02-05-2003, 06:43 PM
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You dont need color on a radar,your not watching TV.I use a Furuno 1712 ,works great but I believe Raytheon is a little more user friendly till you get used to it.This is my second Furuno radar in the last 10 years with out a glitch ever.I feel there the most reliable.Any brand of small radars out there will do the job.If mounting in a pilothouse I would recomend a CRT ,if mounted out in the direct sunlite I would buy a LCD.JMO


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Old 02-06-2003, 05:56 AM
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Thanks for all the information. I will probably be looking that the furuno 1712 or the simrad ra30. There is about a $500 difference in price, so right now I think furuno gets the nod since simrad doesn't have a non-color unit. I take it color isn't as helpful on radar as compared to on a fishfinder?
Is there any need for higher power than 2Kw, as far as to be used as a navigation aid? It would be nice to pick up incoming storms/squalls, but I can usually see those in plenty of time anyway.

Thanks agian for all the help!!
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Old 02-06-2003, 06:59 AM
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How far do you want to see reliably?

With a 2kW SL72, I trust that it shows me what is within 3/4 mile or so. After that, I don't trust that it is picking up the smaller targets. I can see freighters and large ships at 10-12 miles. Land at 10-12 miles. But, 20-25' boats fade in and out over 1-2 miles away in anything other than calm seas.

If you want close range colision avoidance, 2kW is fine, if you want to see that 25'er that is just outside your visible range, go with more power.
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Old 02-06-2003, 07:25 AM
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So, basically the 24nm, 36nm, etc ratings on these things are exaggerated? or do they have nothing to do with the range?

Is it justifiable to spend $1500-2000 on one, when basically everything it shows you can already see with the naked eye. I realize, it would be priceless in a limited vis. condition, but I can stay in port those few days a year.

Maybe I am missing something. I think an autopilot would be a better investment for my money.
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Old 02-06-2003, 08:57 AM
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Re: So, basically the 24nm, 36nm, etc ratings on these things are exaggerated? or do they have nothing to do with the range?

Scanner ranges are accurate, but line-of-sight is determined by target and scanner height. Raymarine uses a NM range detection formula of 2.23 x (sqrt of scanner height in meters + sqrt of target in meters) their example of a 3 meter scanner height and a 3 meter target height yields a range of 7.8nm
Regardless if you have a 24nm scanner or a 72nm scanner the most you can detect is 7.8 nm (based on target and scanner height). We rode across the Bay Bridge one morning before sunrise, When we rode up highlevel bridge across the channel, I watched the sun rise, then while driving down the other side I watched the sun drop below the horizon.

[This message was edited by HookMan on 02-06-03 at 12:12 PM.]
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Old 02-06-2003, 09:35 AM
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Keep in mind that when the range is given for these machines its not the range you are expected to get, its the range the machine is capable of, based as much on its energy output as anyting else. No manufacturer claims that your installation will have a 24 mile range, only that the machine is capable of detecting targets at 24 miles. In order to 'see' a traget that was 24 miles away the combined height of your radar antenna and the target would have to be about 225 feet above sea level (on a very dry day) - not likely to be the case very often.

Thom

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