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RayMarine with C-Map issues

Old 04-19-2003, 11:04 PM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

Bought the C-Map NT+ Wide charts for East Coast Florida and Bahamas today to be used in a color Hsb2 Raychart plotter. Being used to the Garmin Blue charts, I kinda got a suprise when I zoomed past certain limits and found that I lost my chart detail. Some charts it disapeared at 24 mile zoom, some it disapeared at 3 miles, leaving me with only waypoint data. All other data including land detail, fish haven outlines etc, disapeared.

Is this a C-Map issue, a Raychart issue, or just a Vector chart issuie in general? Do Navionics charts do this as well?

With the Garmin Blue Charts I could zoom to 80 ft without loosing the chart, spot soundings, wreck id's, Land/Rock details, etc. I gotta admit I'm a little disapointed that the little Map76 with Bluechart ($400) had better detail and capabilities than the the Raychart/C-Map combo ($2600). I realize that some of the price difference is color and screen size, but I expected a little better.

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Old 04-20-2003, 05:39 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

My raychart 435 (navionics) loses detail as well. Looks like it's a raymarine issue.
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Old 04-20-2003, 06:31 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

It's not the Raymarine unit, it's the scale/detail level with C-map for that area. My RL map unit is capable of 1/64 nm but only if data is available. If you unit has Plotter Mode setting then flip its setting, then the map data will not disapear, you will be limited to map scale for zooming.
It's a shame Raymarine has left the mapping to C-map rather than provide their own on CD. The SW c-maps usually have the most detail.
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Old 04-20-2003, 08:46 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

nope, I say it's a raymarine issue, here's why.

If the detail is there in any scale it's there for all scales. It's up to the mapping program (raymarine), not the chart (c-map, navionics) to display the information.

The information is available, they just choose not to display it.
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Old 04-20-2003, 10:03 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

If it is the chartplotter, what would make the chart plotter stop showing detail in one chart area at 24 zoom (typically the more generic chart that covers a large area) but allow zoom to 3 miles in the smaller chart that is near land and coastal areas?

When I say chart, I am speaking of the individual charts (you can see the outline and chart data in the pop-up info)that make up a single C-Map cartridge.

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Old 04-20-2003, 10:50 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

Reel Luck,
I have the same problem with the new C-Map cards.
I think it's a liability issue for both companies in that depending on high detail maps could be a problem if they are not correct. As you know some of this data is 40 years old with only a few updates from NOAA. The old map cards will do the same thing but at a lower scale. That's why I use the RL70/C-Map for long range navagation and my Garmin 182/blue chart for close work. I think they "zoomed out" the chart cut off range on new cards due to the age of the data and the associated liability. You know, someone's allways trying to take care of us, states, local govmt and Uncle Sam. If you have enough responsibility to get all the licences and pay the taxes on the boat, you should have enough judgement to know when to ignore 30 yr old data on the charts.
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Old 04-21-2003, 09:20 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

Turn off "Plotter Mode" in the system settings. When this mode is on, the unit displays the internal map/chart that comes with the unit which has no detail instead of the C-Map chart installed. Turn that mode off, and then you will be able to zoom as down to 1/16th of a mile.



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Old 04-21-2003, 05:45 PM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

Birdman,

I know there was some humor in that message somewhere.......

FYI... I can still zoom down to the full extent of the unit (1/16th of a mile), but I only have waypoint data showing. The reason I purchased the charts is for the bathymetric data, spot soundings, wreck and fish haven area definitions, etc. Those are only available with the C-Map Chart. Just because I am 30 miles off the coast doesn't mean that I dont want the data available to me at 12 and 6 mile zooms, like it is along the coastline (although I understand it is more important in that area) Also, Danger areas such as shoals, reefs, and obstructions disapear when overzoomed as well, which I especially do not like.


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Old 04-21-2003, 06:22 PM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

Birdman,
Thats not the problem with the GPS/C-map. Different map sections go to grid at different scales. Generally, not a large problem. When you have several hot spots charted within say 100' of each other, then you might want to zoom to really get a good look, thats when you get the grid. I still love the technology, but a few glitches still in there.
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Old 04-22-2003, 08:03 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

1) RL map units can zoom-in to 1/64nm. 2) C-Maps vary greatly in detail and scale. 3) Plotter Mode should be set to OFF to keep from loosing map display. 4) Chart Setup/Customize/Chart Display Setting of either Detailed or Simple can change zoom capabilities.

Examples of two areas, settings and display results using a NAC-324 C-Map chip.
1.ICW downtown Norfolk. Plotter Mode set OFF,Zoom-in stops at 1/8nm, Repeated pressing of Range (Zoom-In) has no effect, and map remains displayed at 1/8nm. Set Plotter Mode ON, Map will display at 1.5nm but then drops out and NO CHART DATA message is displayed when zooming to next range of 0.75nm. (Chart Detail setting has no effect on display for that area).

2.Offshore near the Norfolk Canyon: Plotter Mode set OFF, Zoom-in stops at 3nm, Repeated pressing of Range (Zoom-In) has no effect, and map remains displayed at 3nm. Set Plotter Mode ON & Chart Detail to Detailed, Map will display at 24nm but then drops out and NO CHART DATA message is displayed when zooming to next range of 12nm. Set Plotter Mode ON & Chart Detail to Simple, Map will display at 12nm but then drops out and NO CHART DATA message is displayed when zooming to next range of 6nm.

Conclusion: Keep Plotter Mode set to OFF! (If you are using a C-Map Chip)

Birdman re: "When this mode is on, the unit displays the internal map/chart that comes with the unit which has no detail instead of the C-Map chart installed. Turn that mode off, and then you will be able to zoom as down to 1/16th of a mile."

Internal Map is used is when there is no chart chip installed or when No Chart Data is present for a particular area. The Internal Map does have detail but only from 150nm to 4000nm. With PM OFF you can zoom to 1/64 if chart data is available.

[This message was edited by HookMan on 04-22-03 at 11:19 AM.]
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Old 04-22-2003, 08:10 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

Thanks a bunch for the information. I will try the scenarios on my C-Map tonight and see what happens. Sounds like I need to review the documentation some more to get an idea of what each of the options you mentioned are supposed to do.

What exactly is the purpose of "plotter mode"?
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Old 04-22-2003, 08:28 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

The documentation is not very good at explaining this feature, probably because of the C-Map detail/scaale variation between areas.

This if from Raymarine's RL-70CRC manual.
Plotter mode is available to allow you to zoom into a smaller area, even when no chart data is available for that scale. If Plotter Mode is On, the scale is decreased and the message NO CHART DATA is displayed. The vessel, waypoints, routes and tracklines are displayed without cartography. The chart information is restored when you return to a chart scale for which the information is available.

It's to display vessel, waypoints, routes and tracklines when your C-Map fails to provide zoom detail.
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Old 04-22-2003, 08:45 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

This problem is a "User Problem". Read the Black highlighted section on page 38 and your RayMarine manual. PLOTTER MODE "OFF".
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Old 04-22-2003, 09:06 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

Plotter Mode "off". Try contacting Amy on ******** forum, or call her direct at c-map. She's been a hugh help to me.
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Old 04-22-2003, 09:44 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

quote:Originally posted by reel luck:
Birdman,

I know there was some humor in that message somewhere.......

FYI... I can still zoom down to the full extent of the unit (1/16th of a mile), but I only have waypoint data showing. The reason I purchased the charts is for the bathymetric data, spot soundings, wreck and fish haven area definitions, etc. Those are only available with the C-Map Chart. Just because I am 30 miles off the coast doesn't mean that I dont want the data available to me at 12 and 6 mile zooms, like it is along the coastline (although I understand it is more important in that area) Also, Danger areas such as shoals, reefs, and obstructions disapear when overzoomed as well, which I especially do not like.

Lucky


HUH? There was no humor in there, sorry. LOL!! Anyway, as I said, and then everyone dis-agreed with me and then stated the same thing (???#@! HUH?). Your problem sound exactly like you have Plotter Mode turned on. Turn it off and you will get all you detail.

On thing though, just remember, if there is no detail for an area, your really not going to see anything when you zoom in. For example, MANY area's offshore Long Island are on the charts, but there is NOTHING there. It's 90' deep for about 50 miles with no dips, changes, reckes.... so you can zoom all day long, but ya aint gonna see nuttin.

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Old 04-22-2003, 11:07 AM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

Birdman, you just didn't explain it right

Seriously, it took hookman's detailed explanation and example to get through to my somewhat thick skull what you were saying. And I don't think I ever disagreed with you, I simply asked a question as to why it did something.

Once again, thanks for EVERYONE's help.

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Old 04-22-2003, 01:48 PM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

Great explanation. The bottom line is detail & zoom capabilities vary depending on the area. As birdie stated originally plot mode also affects this. I noticed this last weekend. I did not get the detail I expected in one of my areas (Ponce Inlet-Daytona). I just fired up PC Planner NT and looked at quite a few areas on my particular chip which covers FL east coast and Bahamas. Here are a few examples on the max zoom.

Intercoastal between Daytona and Ponce inlet 2.4NM

A couple of miles out from Ponce inlet 4.8NM.

Port Canaveral .6NM

Freeport Bahamas .6NM

Other areas of the Bahamas I get 3NM.
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Old 04-22-2003, 04:51 PM
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Default RayMarine with C-Map issues

Well hell everyone is right for a change.

If I turn plotter mode off on my Raychart 435 (navionics), I can only zoom down as far as the chart detail is valid.

If I turn plotter mode on, then I can zoom down past the original limit of range to 1/8 mile. But after the original range is zoomed past, the chart detail just simply disappears.

So plotter mode does affect the display of information, but....

The information inside the chart chip is a database, not a bitmap of a image, therefore the details never change over range, so it could be used at all zoom levels.
They just need a better filtering algorithm to decide what to display. So whomever is responsible for that algorithm is the one that needs to be kicked in the shins.
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