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Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

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Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

Old 10-23-2008, 02:06 PM
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Default Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

Which one?

Both will be 4 feet open array.

10kW(9S) or 4kW HD (RA1048HD)?

and why?

I need it for spotting bird (realistic within 5-10 miles).
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Old 10-23-2008, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

do the super hd i hav seen both and it kicks a##
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

Hello UaVaj,

Start the process by thinking of a radar as a spotlight... (10 Kw vs. 4 Kw). A radar's ability to "see" a target is dependant on how much of this energy (microwaves instead of light) bounces back from a target in the distance.

If you use a 1,000,000 Candle-Power spotlight you will see things in the distance with much more prominence than if it were your average 200,000 CP light..right? This same principal holds true for radars too..particularly when you are trying to "paint" birds at 4-5 miles.

Get the 10 Kw array and you will hit them with more energy so they show-up better on your screen. The HD radars do have superior sharpness in their return image but I am not convinced that this alone will overcome the 2 1/2 times increase in the amount of radiated energy.

Whenever we outfit a boat that is counting on chasing tuna birds in a Raymarine package it is 10 Kw...no questions asked!

Keep in mind that you will need to supply the DC Power leg coming out of the below-decks end of the 10 Kw' radar's cable with 24 Volts NOT 12 Volts. This usually requires a separate DC Up-Converter which will connect to a 12 Volt breaker and output 24 Volts just for the radar (the rest of the equipment can stay on the 12 Volt DC bus. This will add a few hundred dollars to the installation but is absolutely required (unless your boat is larger and has a 24 V DC bus too).

Size the 12 to 24 VDC Up-Converter to have a 24 VDC OUTPUT of 7 AMPs CONTINUOUS as this will cover operation up to about 60 MPH of Wind Across the deck. (it will usually only need about 4 AMPs to operate on nice days)
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:29 AM
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Default RE: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

Do the 10KW. I had the HD 4 kw and it could not find birds. Power is essential for finding birds. I had 5 Furuno 12Kw before the HD 4KW. I HAVE lots of real world experience/frustration with the HD 4KW trying to find birds.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

RadarsRUs
Thanks for that awesome analogy

Plenty of Backup
Thanks for that real life experience



Went with the 10kW (9S).
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

One MAJOR problem with the above "premise".

If your 1,000,000 candle power flashlight shines it's light like a cheap flashlight all over the place, although more light left it, very little will reach the birds straight ahead, as much of the candle power will be going in all the other directions as well. On the other hand, if the 200,000 candle power flashlight has a perfect straight concentrated beam of light, it's very possible it hits the birds with more light than the higher power "flashlight".

I'm NOT saying the 4kw HD array will work better than the 10kw array, I have not idea as I have not seen the 4kw HD Ray unit. I have seen the 10kw non-digital unit, and can tell you this, it is not much better, if better at all than my 4kw hd garmin unit. That is, at close distance anyway. I did not see it used long distance which does make a big difference when it comes to power.

But my point is, do not just think of power as better, it is not always the case. Good luck.....
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:34 PM
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Default RE: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

Plenty of Backup - 10/27/2008 12:29 PM

Do the 10KW. I had the HD 4 kw and it could not find birds. Power is essential for finding birds. I had 5 Furuno 12Kw before the HD 4KW. I HAVE lots of real world experience/frustration with the HD 4KW trying to find birds.
If you can't find birds with a 4KW open................you need some adjustments my friend....................I can pick up a single seagull at a few miles quite easily........You just need to know how to fine tune and know what the return looks like...........It will not look like a boat or a marker..........................I can find a flock or birds at 5-6 miles............I went from a 2.2 dome to a 4 kw dome to the 4kw open......There was very little difference from the 2.2 dome to the 4 dome but the difference from the 4 dome to the 4 open was tremendous.......................
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

I am with offshorebri on that one..
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

Jessejames,
That a new boat for you? I don't recall ever seeing that boat around Morriches? Fish near the inlet at all?
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

As I was reading that other radar threads and doing radar research.

Rather HD or Analog. The signal is still analog. Physic is still physic.

So would it be safe to say that: HD simply has filtering arighthorm to help the less than technical folks properly read a radar screen.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

UaVaj - 10/28/2008 3:49 PM

So would it be safe to say that: HD simply has filtering arighthorm to help the less than technical folks properly read a radar screen.
NO. I believe it is safe to say, that the HD radar is using some "filtering hardware and/or software" to clear up the data somewhat. But it is not safe to say that it's purpose is to make it easier for novices to use. It's simply trying to make a better picture out of the given data from a relatively small array (at 24" compared to 4').

I have not confrimed this, and need to try and find out for sure the next time I'm speaking with a Garmin rep, but I thought I read somewhere in Garmin literature or at a demo at a boat show possibly, that the new HD radar is sending out 2 pulses instead of 1. And then took an average of the 2 pulses or something to get better data. But like I said, I have not confirmed that.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

With the Furuno HD radar, the signal received is still analog, but it's converted to digital in the array itself and transmitted to the display unit in a digital format. My Furuno radar uses a standard Ethernet cable to send the signal to my Ethernet hub (which my NN3 units are plugged into). I think the translation of the analog signal to digital allows more processing to occur which can produce a better picture, having a side effect of making it easier to use for novices.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

As for going digital. Letting a computer arigithorum (the HD processing part) decides what part of the reported image is important is putting too much trust in it. This kinda remind me of scuba dive computers. I know a few folks who has gotten bend while their computer was stating that they should be okay. So in this infant stage of HD processing - I will have to passed. The technology needs much more time to be proven. So until then.

In regard to the data that is showing on the screen. For now - I will stick with analog processing and let my brain do the deciding of what is important and what is not. I am just not the gineau pig type consumer. I will gladly accept last year's technology. Just not last decade's technology.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

Praetorian47,
That the same the Garmin HD does. It's also an ethernet cable connection. ALL radar, will be using an analog signal to start with, there is no way a "digital" signal could be sent out the array, and returned "digital".

UaVaj,
If you think your "analog" signal is shown to you as it comes in with no processing, I got some bad news for you. There is just as much, if not more "processing/filteriing...." done on analog stuff. The dig signal just gives you more flexibility.
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Raymarine Open Array Radar - Digital or Not?

Birdman, I agree, Garmin, Raymarine, Furuno, even Northstar all do the same things improving use with HD. If I may be permitted now to plug my favourite, I think Furuno does this improvement better than the rest.

I comment on the Furuno because it's what I know. I suspected the others were like this, but it's cool to know for sure.

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Old 11-14-2009, 08:32 AM
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I want to bring this thread from the dead. A year has passed and hopefully these questions now have QUALIFIED answers.

Some real world experience/comparison between both type would be appreciated
and
Some in depth understanding of the difference in the signal processing would be appreciated.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by UaVaj
Went with the 10kW (9S).
Originally Posted by UaVaj View Post
I want to bring this thread from the dead. A year has passed and hopefully these questions now have QUALIFIED answers.

Some real world experience/comparison between both type would be appreciated
and
Some in depth understanding of the difference in the signal processing would be appreciated.
What am I missing here. It looks like you bought the 10kw model, but you are still looking for advice.

Did you decide to not buy the unit?
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:30 AM
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I wonder whatever happened to Jessejames and the Fat Girl.

Kinda disappeared after all that crap about the lures went on.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by UaVaj View Post
I want to bring this thread from the dead. A year has passed and hopefully these questions now have QUALIFIED answers.

Some real world experience/comparison between both type would be appreciated
and
Some in depth understanding of the difference in the signal processing would be appreciated.
I can relay what I was told by a senior Furuno engineer describing the difference between their older radars and the newer "HD" units. If signal processing is used broadly to describe everything that happens to turn the raw data from the radar return into a picture on your display, the difference is that the HD radars have a lot more complex set of algorithms for deciding what to "paint." This is true whether they are operated manual or in auto mode. The benefit is that the real-world resolution is enhanced versus the older "analog" units. A secondary benefit is that the auto modes do a much better job of tuning and the filters are also more sophisticated.

In terms of performance, my 4' oper array 6kW Furuno unit has no trouble at all showing small flocks of birds at 4-6 miles unless the seas are rough and creating too many returns from big waves. I have used an older 6' array 25kW Furuno many, many times running a larger boat and my newer unit is almost as good for birds and certainly requires less tuning to see them.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by gerg View Post
What am I missing here. It looks like you bought the 10kw model, but you are still looking for advice.

Did you decide to not buy the unit?
I do own the 9S and NOT in the market for a radar so buying advice is NOT needed.

However since last year. Super HD has come out. Just want a further understanding of digital radar technology in comparison to analog technology.
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