Go Back  The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > Marine Electronics Forum
Reload this Page >

Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

Notices

Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

Old 12-11-2002, 05:36 PM
  #1  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hopewell Jct, NY USA 200
Posts: 608
Default Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

Thom(or anybody else with experience on this),

you mentioned in your post below that "it is not the temperature sensor". That comment plus what I have read on the airmar site(which lists temperature sensor options for the B744V unit) has me starting to think the temp sensor is NOT part of the sealed triducer...is that true? If not do you know what those other options are for that they list? Thanks.


I lucked out and won an auction on eBay for a brand new Furuno 600L with a new Airmar triducer for $600. After looking at the triducer I have second thoughts about using it....first off its a paddle wheel sensor with a "corrsion proof" axle and second...it looks like a problem waiting to happen as far as something failing inside the triducer housing(like the paddle wheel insert and blanking sleeve) and letting a ton of water into the hull.

I want a through hull ducer and I want temp readings. Speed I can get from my garmin gps.

Anybody want to comment? Are these things fail proof(sure don't look like it)? If I went back to an Airmar thru hull ducer without the the speed sensor and just got temp and depth...are those ducers solid sealed cores?

Thanks,
Jo

[This message was edited by HDGWJOE on 12-13-02 at 09:56 AM.]
HDGWJOE is offline  
Old 12-12-2002, 05:03 AM
  #2  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Diego, CA. USA
Posts: 118
Default Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

I have the same set up for my 600L. The through hull triducer has a check valve in the shaft case of a failure. I assume you are talking about the bronze through hull.
Make sure you luberacate the O rings with patrolium
jell before inserting paddle wheel insert.
I have never had a leakage problem with this setup. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

John.M.
johnm is offline  
Old 12-12-2002, 05:21 AM
  #3  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 3,877
Default Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

If you got the whole package with that transducer you'll find that there is a pin that passes through the vertical pipe-looking part of the transducer and that also passes through the insert for the paddle wheel carrier (it is not the temperature sensor). That pin is held in place by a split ring that should have been attached to the transuducer by a piece of safety chain. With the pin and ring in place that center section is not going to come out.

Also, if you look a the center section, the wheel carrier, you'll notice that it has groves for two O-Rings on it (which you should grease). Those provide some friction as well, and they also introduce a gap between the wall of the pipe part and the insert where things tend to grow over time. The result is that the inserts tend to become very well secured in short time - did you ever try to remove one that had been on a boat for any length of time?

And finally there is this little bit. If you have a medium sized boat with a moderate to substantial V in it you'll have a transducer face around 2' below the waterline. As luck would have it you get about one pound of pressure for ever 2 feet of head with water. So the pressure on that insert would be somewhere close to 1 pound per square inch. That insert is about an inch and a quarter in diameter as I recall so its area would be around an inch and a quarter too. That means that you would have about 1 and a quarter pounds of pressure being exerted trying to push the insert out of the tube. That really isn't much at all and so just about anything (remember the greased O-Rings) would tend to hold it in place.

Anyway the bottom line is don't worry about it. I have never know of one to come out, the safety pin and ring make it very safe indeed, and even if they weren't there it likely the thing would stay in place on its own.

Thom

"For every complex question, there's a simple answer. And it's wrong."
(--H. L. Mencken)
Thom is offline  
Old 12-12-2002, 07:18 AM
  #4  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hopewell Jct, NY USA 200
Posts: 608
Default Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

JohnM & Thom

You guys are making me feel a little better about this setup...especially some of the points you made Thom.

Yes...this unit has all the parts you mentioned. But when I look at a couple of o-rings and a flap type valve keeping the water out it just looks likeone big weak link to me.
JohnM...sounds like I have the same unit as you...B744V.

Thanks,
Joe
HDGWJOE is offline  
Old 12-13-2002, 09:15 AM
  #5  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hopewell Jct, NY USA 200
Posts: 608
Default Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

Just getting this to the top so Thom sees my second question.........or anybody else who can answer it...I edited my original post and put the question at thbe top.
HDGWJOE is offline  
Old 12-13-2002, 09:25 AM
  #6  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 3,877
Default Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

What you have, the tri-ducer, does have temperature capability that will be used by the 600L. What I meant to say is that the centersection is not where the temperature sensor is located, as it is on some transducers. With the transducer you bought the temperature sensor is in the main body of the transducer, and it is just the speed sensor that is in the removable center section.

Also, as long as I'm here, I might as well give you the bad news. The temperature sensors that are built into those transducers is notoriouosly unreliable. They fail with alarmin frequency. When they fail what you will see is creeping temperature readings, higher and higher and on and on. After a couple of days they tend to lock on at about 100 degrees and stay there.

This is not the endo fo the world and it does not mean that you are going to have to buy a new $180 transducer, or have to go to the trouble of replacing one. Furuno sells a replacement centersection, and this one DOES have the temperature sensor in it, along with the speed paddle wheel. It has its own separate cable with a "Y" end on it. So, you stick the replacement in the middle, then run the second cable right along side your current transducer cable. When it gets up to about 4 feet of the display unit your old transducer cable (which is still providing the dept data) plugs into one side of the "Y" and the other side goes on to plug into your depth finder. This replacement unit runs right around $90 and can be had from a number of places (call Consumer Marine Electronics, they'll know exactly what it is you need when the times comes - and it will come).

There, that help any?

Thom

"For every complex question, there's a simple answer. And it's wrong."
(--H. L. Mencken)
Thom is offline  
Old 12-13-2002, 11:00 AM
  #7  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hopewell Jct, NY USA 200
Posts: 608
Default Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

That helped a lot Thom.....thanks again.

Two more questions...being I haven't installed this yet why not just get the temp sensor replacement from the start? And...has the reliability of the replacement unit been determined yet?

Thanks,
Joe
HDGWJOE is offline  
Old 12-13-2002, 11:55 AM
  #8  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 3,877
Default Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

Joe,

Those are tough questions. I say that because I don't think all that many folks know about the fix, and that it is considerably less expensive than a full transducer replacement. I am sure that the majority of people who suffer from temperature sensing loss just live with it and swear off of Furuno products (or not), and that only a very few go to the trouble and expense to replace the transducer (remember, that's about $180 and a lot of guys don't do their own work and there is the possibility of having to haul larger boats=expensive). Of the small handful that find out about the insert solution, and I have one right at the moment, you don't hear much about failures. My own guess is that the inserts are a bit more reliable, but who knows. At any rate I certainly would not buy one and do it as an initial install. After all we're talking about about half the price of the actual transducer here and it doesn't give you anyting that you haven't already got. The actual installation of the insert is not at all difficult, with the pulling of the wire usually far and away the hardest part. One thing for sure, its not something that you'd ever have to hire anyone to do, just follow the old line with the new one.

Actually this stuff about the replacement temperatrue and speed sensor is just something that I like to let people know about so they can keep it in the back of their minds. Its not like every transducer sufferes a temperature sensor failure, or even most of them, but a good number do and I like folks to know about the easiest and least expensive fix, should they choose to pursue it.

At any rate, in your case, where you haven't installed anything yet, I'd just make sure I ran a pull line along with the transducer cable just in case you ever need to feed an additional cable through your boat. I certainly would not buy the replacement part unless somewhere way down the line I needed it. That work for you?

Thom

"For every complex question, there's a simple answer. And it's wrong."
(--H. L. Mencken)
Thom is offline  
Old 12-13-2002, 12:03 PM
  #9  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hopewell Jct, NY USA 200
Posts: 608
Default Another AIRMAR Triducer Question for Thom

Thanks again for taking the time to explain this Thom....I'll go with what I have and lay in a pull line as you suggested...great idea.

Thanks again,
Joe
HDGWJOE is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread