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Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

Old 03-06-2003, 10:32 PM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

I just had my Furuno 1650 software upgraded, from version 10 to version 14, in order to handle the Nav. XL cartridge. And bought the XL cartridge. Plugged it in last night, and I can't tell any difference between the XL and the older cartridge.

I had been told the XL would show more detail and generally be easier to use. I had spent quite a bit of time in the stores and this definitely seemed to be the case there. Of course, this was based upon new units the store had. And I actually was looking more at a comparison of CMap, Bluecharts and Navionics, rather than old vs new style Navionics. But I still saw a significant difference in the older vs XL Navionics cartridges. But now, on my older machine, I don't see it.

I haven't spent alot of time with the unit since I got it back, but I'm pretty certain I'm not seeing what I should be seeing. Any ideas what my problem might be? I'm not even gettng the port details I had expected to seee. I'm starting to feel like I just wasted a couple hundred bucks. Anyone know of a good way to really test to see if the differences I should be seeing are actually there? They did have a major problem with the software upgrade at the local Furuno dealer, but the test program indicates it's now running version 14 of the software, as it should. But something's not right here.

JB

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Old 03-07-2003, 06:54 AM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

If you are missing detail this might be the reason. I was just compairing Furuno to RayMarine. Furuno had much lower pixel count than RayMarine and the bigger Furuno screens.
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Old 03-07-2003, 12:29 PM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

The XL is not the new Gold version. XL is just extra large...i.e. it covers more area. I just bought the XL version for Florida... I says its the classic version on the box (in small print) I was hoping to get the gold version with all the new features but it was not the case.
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Old 03-07-2003, 03:27 PM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

The XL is the new version, thats what I was told at the boat show last month by the navionics rep.
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Old 03-07-2003, 03:53 PM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

I have the 1650 also. I purchased it about 5 years ago. I was told that it would read the new charts without any upgrades. I just looked at the new navionics charts today and was going to buy one. The reason I wanted the new chart was because they changed their soundings from fathoms and meters to feet. I would also be able to zoom down below 4 miles when offshore without losing any bottom detail.It is supposed to work similar to the garmin bluechart. The new 1650 in the store seemed to work just fine with the new chart. They said it would work the sameway in my machine.
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Old 03-07-2003, 11:50 PM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

Just got e-mail from Furuno, they said I will need a softwear update to read the spot soundings.
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Old 03-09-2003, 07:11 PM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

I'll take a closer look at things in the next couple days. Probably go over to WM store and look at an XL chart over there and zoom in close. But they don't carry Furuno in the store, so I won't be able to compare apples to apples. Still, I think I should be able to see everything on the 1650, with the possible exception of tides/currents, that I would see with any other machine. If not, then the next step would be to call Furuno and discuss.

I've never heard of a Gold version of the Navionics chart. Anyone else heard this? All I've heard about is the that the newer version is the XL version. I know it covers wider areas on same size chip, but I also thought the XL had improvements over the older chips. Port info/tide and current/ability to zoom in tight and see still see land/etc. The improvements are why I bought the XL. I sure don't need wider coverage. If I don't see the improvements (and I don't at this point), I may as well return the chip. If that's possible.

JB

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Old 03-10-2003, 10:33 AM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

The "Gold" version adds some new features..... here's a link

http://www.navionics.com/Usa/News.asp?Id=46
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Old 03-13-2003, 09:58 AM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

I just bought the 1650 from marine electronics for $588, doesn't have wass or dgps but for the money I couldn't pass it up. I was wondering the same thing about the charts. I looked at a brochure from Navionics and thought it looked great, the popped one in at a local store and noticed a big difference...turned out the chip was a 2001. Anyway, I was wondering if I buy the newest product they have, will my display look like that or not. Please keep us posted on your problem.
Thanks,
Capt JT
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Old 03-15-2003, 01:29 AM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

I've been on the phone twice now with Furuno. Still no resolution. But they're trying. The software upgrade to v.14 should have done the trick, but it did not. They don't know why. They are setting up a machine at their place to try to see the same thing I am seeing. At this point, I'm guessing I did not get a full software upgrade like I should have. But that's just a guess on my part. One thing that stands out for me (as far as not seeing everything on the new XL cartridge I should be seeing) is the port services. I don't have that feature, and I should have with the new XL and the software upgrade. I know I will not have the tide/current info., due to software limitation, but I should be seeing the port info.

Sandpiper/Sublime, how many different depths can your units show in different colors? Mine only allows 3, and they make no sense. Under 30 ft/30 ft/over 30 ft. I was thinking an additional feature of the XL cartridge is to allow more depths to be shown in different colors, but not sure about that. Would sure be nice to have a different color for water depth under 5', for example. Who cares if the water is under or over 30'? I want to know when it's shallow when I'm navigating. That means something in the 3-5' range for me. Only a large ship would care if it's under 30'.

One more thing I want to do is to zoom in to a particular spot with both the XL and the older cartridge and see if they show the same readings. Problem is that the XL only says it has additional sounding info in some spots. So doing this won't really tell me much for certain, but may be interesting to try. I suspect if I'm not getting other features from the newer XL cartridge, I'm probably not getting the additional depth info either.

BTW, Navionics wasn't much help. They basically told me to call Furuno. I would think they would not only have detailed info on what units work with their cartridges, but also what year models of units work (at least back 4 or 5 years), and what specific features from their cartridges will be shown with each of those models. At least for the major models out there, like the Furuno 1650. A matrix would do the job.

JB

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Old 03-15-2003, 07:16 AM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

Send me an e-mail and I'll let you know how I made out with Furuno. The "Gold" charts are different from the XL , but they (GOLD) have not been released yet. I don't know if are machines are going to be able to read them. What are your soundings in the ocean showing in feet or meters? That will tell you if your software update was done properly or not. Version 14 is the original software that was in my machine from 5 years a go when I purchased the unit. There are newer versions of the software.
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Old 05-05-2003, 09:21 AM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

did you ever get the bugs worked out? I have'n't installed mine yet, doing a lot of work to the boat including a new t-top. Remounting all the electronics including the new 1650. I haven't purchased a chart for it yet, let me know if you have someo suggestions. I was going to get the gold version if it works.
Thanks,
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Old 05-05-2003, 10:12 AM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

Just to eliminate some confusion. The detail on the Navionics Classic XL charts is exactly the same as previous Classic charts. The coverage area is the only thing that has changed-an XL chart covers a much larger area.

Currently, the Gold charts will ONLY work with the newer Raymarine Raychart 435 and the brand new (release this month?) Humminbird Matrix 55 and 65 units. Expect more manufacturers to update software to make them compatible with Gold as time goes on.

Jeff B.
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Old 05-05-2003, 06:09 PM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

This link will take you to the Navionics plotter info sheet. Lots of interesting info on screen sizes, pixels, etc. Also shows compatability with Navionics versions.

Navionics PDF

This was last updated on 3/25/03;

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Old 05-06-2003, 04:48 AM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

I still have the same problem as originally. Jeff, the XL cartridges also have tide info and port services info. And I was told they had more detail on the charts.... basically more sounding information. Your post is the first I have heard that they were the same info. But I do know they have the addition of tides and port services. Port services is the big thing I wanted to add by buying the XL chart.

I've sent the unit back to Furuno and it came back with exactly the same verion of the software as it had when I sent it to them. It appears they never touched the machine. Not that I can tell. So I wasted shipping and 1 1/2 weeks and the effort of taking it off the boat, all for nothing.

I'm calling Furuno today to tell them what I think. But I'm not sending the unit back. It's time for fishing and boat use, and I need the unit. Basically, I wasted $200 on an XL cartridge because Furuno and Navionics said they were caompatible and they are not. Not with V14 software anyway. I may try to get Navionics to give me my money back. But that will be like pulling eye teeth. I'm sure they'll say it is compatible with the right software. I need to check their compatibility chart again. My unit is a 1998 model. 1650DF. If it lists that unit as compatible, which I believe it did, I have a valid argument. The compatibility chart should note if anything additional has to be done to make the unit compatible. I was told the 1650DF would not read tide info., but would read the port services info. It does not. Not with V14 software anyway. If Jeff is correct that the XL has no other additional info., then I did in fact waste $200. I'll post again after I talk with Navionics.

Ocnslr, the link you posted had some type of error in it. I couldn't open it. Perhaps it's a problem on my end though.

JB

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Old 05-06-2003, 06:59 AM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

The Navionics chart that I linked to in my previous post indicates that your 1650 is compatible with the XL charts. Under the "Port Services" column it says "Yes", but under the "Tides and Current" column it says "No".

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Old 05-06-2003, 04:08 PM
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Default Older Navionics vs. Navionics XL

right. I had expected to see port services, but knew I would not have tides info. Didn't have a chance to call Furuno today, but did talk to Navionics. They said it was Furuno's problem... of course. Said if I was getting any info at all from the chip, then the chip is fine. I may call them back tommorrow for further discussion.

I'll call Furuno tomm.

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