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Blue Seas ACR

Old 01-23-2007, 10:56 PM
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Default Blue Seas ACR

While looking for parts for a "move the batteries from the transom to the console" project I came across this;

http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?P...58&l1=7458&l2=

sure looks like it would simplify the wiring but I haven't seen it discussed here. Thoughts?
Old 01-23-2007, 11:18 PM
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Default RE: Blue Seas ACR

After taking the advice of some of the guys on the BBC I recently installed the ACR and optional remote switch. It is easy to install and "idiot" proof. The starting battery is always automatically separated from the house or accessory battery so you don't have to remember to use a switch. The remote switch allows you to combine both batteries if needed. It was advised to also install a master switch at each battery. So far I am very impressed.
Old 01-23-2007, 11:20 PM
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Default Or you could go the BEP 716

If you choose to go with two batteries I would recommend the BEP 716 Battery Distribution Cluster and here is why. The BEP 716 is ideally suited for a single outboard installation. Here is how it works:
The BEP 716 will ensure that the starting battery is recharged after each start. When your outboard is started the 716 VSR directs all the charge to the starting battery. When your starting battery reaches 13.7 volts the 716 VSR connects the starting and house batteries, allowing both batteries to charge together. When your outboard is turned off the battery voltage will begin to fall back to it's normal operating voltage, once it has dropped to 12.8 volts the batteries will seperate ensuring the starting and house batteries are isolated from one another. This ensures that your starting battery has sufficent power to start your outboard.

There is a third switch on the 716 that gives you the capability to align both your batteries in the emergency parallel configuration for starting purposes. This is in the event that neither battery has sufficent charge to start your outboard (think of it as the both position on a standard marine two battery switch).

There is one other neat trick you can do with the BEP 716 and that is you can connect a battery charger to it by connecting the positive output terminal of the battery charger to Stud "A" on the starter battery switch. You set the starter battery switch to "ON" and set the house battery switch to "OFF". This will allow the VSR to engage and charge both batteries. Kind of like "One Stop Shopping."

Note:

You connect the grounding terminal of the battery charger to the negative post on the start battery to complete the circuit. Price on this model varies from $115 - $135 depending what fender you go thru. It's a great product.

Here are some pictures of the BEP 716.



Old 01-24-2007, 12:03 AM
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Default RE: Blue Seas ACR

If you go for BEP you need to read this- Ensuring correct sizing:

The charging system must be correctly sized to the batteries (see figure 1).

If the charging system is too small for the batteries the VSR system will not work properly. Instead, once the starting battery has reached the right voltage and the house battery is connected, the system's voltage will "cave down" below 12.7 volts and the relay will automatically disconnect. The voltage then rises, the relay re-engages; then the voltage drops, the relay disengages and a buzzer-like sound will be heard as the relay quickly switches in and out. Alternator verses Battery Capacity: Alternator size Second Battery Size
10 amp 60 amp hours GRP 22
16 amp 85 amp hours GRP 24
25 - 35 amp 85 - 100 amp hours GRP 27
50 - 60 amp 100 - 130 amp hours GRP 31
80 - 90 amp 130 - 220 amp hours GRP 80



On a Yamaha 115hp outboard with a 16 amp charging output the house battery should not be larger than 65 amp/hr.




Old 01-24-2007, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Blue Seas ACR

There have actually been quite a few threads discussing it. It's a great idea. Here is one for a single engine, two battery setup

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114124&posts=4

Old 01-25-2007, 05:59 AM
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Default Re: Blue Seas ACR

I know this one will not be accepted easily...

One thing the Blue Seas 7610 will do is prevent the house battery from being drawn down while starting with the other battery. But how can this be - I have a combiner, or other device which separates the batteries when I start the engine!?! Right?

In certain situations, and due to a preset delay in switching (to prevent rapid switching), most of the combiners have a built in delay. When your engine(s) are shutdown with fully charged batteries sometimes the voltage can remain above the trip point for up to a half hour. If you restart your engine, that combiner will not break the connection fast enough. That's why Blues Seas just released the unit they did (7610). If you want to protect your electronics from both voltage spikes, and voltage drops, get the Blue Seas 7610. This can only be measured with an ocsilliscope, and you won't see it on your V/O meter. There was also one more condition where the normal combiner may cause problems, but I don't recall when it was!

It is actually the brainchild of Fred Fritz, of Petaluma Ca. He convinced a lead Blue Seas engineer to take an ocsilliscope on to his own private boat to verify and check, and Fred was indeed correct. If you believe you have voltage surge/drop protection with a standard battery combiner, call Blue Seas or check out the 7610.

http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_id=230175

I have never seen an add for a combiner that gaurantees starter protection. I know the chances are low, and the conditions have to be just right, but this unit only cost $100, and it rated for 120 AMP. Not bad...priced roughly where the combiners are. I just returned a 75 AMP combiner I had ordered after to talking to Fred Fritz, setting up an appointment for some work to be done.

I learned this when I contacted Fred to have electrical work done on my new boat. Since he has eliminated the voltage spikes and drops, his electronics warranty work has went from a big paper pile to just 3 reapirs recently.

IMHO, if you live in the Bay Area, Ca, Fred is the man. Everyone I have heard from says this guy does absolute 1st class work...

Fred Fritz
Fred Fritz Electronics
821 Petaluma Blvd N
Petaluma, CA, US 94952
Phone: 707-762-9198
www.e-boatronics.com
Old 01-25-2007, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: Blue Seas ACR

Thanks for the replies guys. Tom that BEP setup is pretty slick, I like the simplicity in the connections. I admit so far all I've looked at is the Blue Seas stuff. Looks like I need to poke around the BEP site some.
Thanks Elusive, I missed that one. The only difference is the ACR, is the 7610 I'm looking at just the waterproof version of the 7600?
Old 01-25-2007, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Blue Seas ACR

Mitch - Good find.

It doesn't have the manual override, but probably a feature that isn't used much. It also doesn't have the ability to adjust the voltage at which the relay is closed (like the 7600). Being waterproof is a big plus



Old 01-26-2007, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Blue Seas ACR

rhartjr - 1/25/2007 10:06 AM
only difference is the ACR, is the 7610 I'm looking at just the waterproof version of the 7600?
NO - The BIG improvement is starting isolation.
Old 01-28-2007, 12:37 AM
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Default RE: Blue Seas ACR

Lowranger - 1/23/2007 10:03 PM

If you go for BEP you need to read this- Ensuring correct sizing:

The charging system must be correctly sized to the batteries (see figure 1).

If the charging system is too small for the batteries the VSR system will not work properly. Instead, once the starting battery has reached the right voltage and the house battery is connected, the system's voltage will "cave down" below 12.7 volts and the relay will automatically disconnect. The voltage then rises, the relay re-engages; then the voltage drops, the relay disengages and a buzzer-like sound will be heard as the relay quickly switches in and out. Alternator verses Battery Capacity: Alternator size Second Battery Size
10 amp 60 amp hours GRP 22
16 amp 85 amp hours GRP 24
25 - 35 amp 85 - 100 amp hours GRP 27
50 - 60 amp 100 - 130 amp hours GRP 31
80 - 90 amp 130 - 220 amp hours GRP 80



On a Yamaha 115hp outboard with a 16 amp charging output the house battery should not be larger than 65 amp/hr.



This is true. THe problem I'm running into is my house load seems to drain my 55 amp hour house battery a little too fast. Then when I start up my 90 hP honda which is supposed to supply 16 amps it takes about 10 minutes or more before the BEP VSR stops switching on and off. Basically the house battery is low enough that when the VSR opens it basically drops the starting battery low enough to close the curcuit again. I wish that the VSR would never combine the two batteries and just switch the charging over to the house battery.
Old 01-28-2007, 10:26 AM
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Default RE: Blue Seas ACR

The Blue Seas ACR does seem to have an advantage. Their ACR is also wired to the starting solenoid line, and it drops the battery link during cranking, that is, when the solenoid is energized.

This is shown in Page-4 of the instructions:

https://myeporia.eporia.com/resource.../990170140.pdf

From my armchair point of view, this looks like a distinct advantage for the Blue Seas product.
Old 01-28-2007, 09:37 PM
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Default RE: Blue Seas ACR

flapbreaker - 1/28/2007 12:37 AM

Lowranger - 1/23/2007 10:03 PM

If you go for BEP you need to read this- Ensuring correct sizing:

The charging system must be correctly sized to the batteries (see figure 1).

If the charging system is too small for the batteries the VSR system will not work properly. Instead, once the starting battery has reached the right voltage and the house battery is connected, the system's voltage will "cave down" below 12.7 volts and the relay will automatically disconnect. The voltage then rises, the relay re-engages; then the voltage drops, the relay disengages and a buzzer-like sound will be heard as the relay quickly switches in and out. Alternator verses Battery Capacity: Alternator size Second Battery Size
10 amp 60 amp hours GRP 22
16 amp 85 amp hours GRP 24
25 - 35 amp 85 - 100 amp hours GRP 27
50 - 60 amp 100 - 130 amp hours GRP 31
80 - 90 amp 130 - 220 amp hours GRP 80



On a Yamaha 115hp outboard with a 16 amp charging output the house battery should not be larger than 65 amp/hr.



This is true. THe problem I'm running into is my house load seems to drain my 55 amp hour house battery a little too fast. Then when I start up my 90 hP honda which is supposed to supply 16 amps it takes about 10 minutes or more before the BEP VSR stops switching on and off. Basically the house battery is low enough that when the VSR opens it basically drops the starting battery low enough to close the curcuit again. I wish that the VSR would never combine the two batteries and just switch the charging over to the house battery.
I am not familiar with how the BEP combiner works but it seems to be working correctly, at least in the same way my Yandina combiner works.

Here is what Yandina says to describe your situation. You can read more about combiners at their website:

http://www.yandina.com/combInfo.htm

Q Is is OK for the combiner to cycle off and on when charging first starts?

A This is normal. When one battery gets to about 13.2 volts and the combiner closes, it is connecting it to a battery which may be at only 12 volts. High current will flow from the 13.2 volt to the 12 volt one. This causes the voltage on the 13.2 volt to drop despite the charging current from the alternator so after a 30 second time delay, the combiner turns off. By this time both batteries will be at an intermediate voltage, for example 12.5. So the battery on charge starts building up to 13.2 again and eventually the contact closes and delivers another pulse for 30 seconds to the other battery. After a few cycles like this, the battery receiving the charge via the combiner will be charged high enough that it will stay on continuously. This cycling is a protective function for both the batteries and the combiner so that the excessive currents from putting the batteries in parallel does not cause overheating. The high current pulses can even be beneficial to batteries which sit for long periods with negligible loads.
Old 01-28-2007, 11:28 PM
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Default RE: Blue Seas ACR

Jethro1,

Yes that is basically how the BEP VSR works but it doesn't use a 30 second delay it cycles on and off very quickly. I think the 30 second delay is a more intelligent way to do it.
Old 01-28-2007, 11:35 PM
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Default RE: Blue Seas ACR

A 55 amp hour house battery is wimpy. What is it a garden tractor battery?

Usually a house battery is preferred to be at least 3 time that much and more is better.

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