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I just bought a Simrad Halo/Boeing 737 MAX...

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I just bought a Simrad Halo/Boeing 737 MAX...

Old 05-17-2019, 08:36 PM
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Default I just bought a Simrad Halo/Boeing 737 MAX...

No, I didn’t buy a Boeing 737 MAX, but I have the exact same feeling as those that did. Can you believe this crap:





I was nothing less than shocked. Just paid $5.500,- for a radar and the first thing I see is a sticker asking me to pay more to use it? Yes, I will voice my opinion to Simrad, and yes I will let HQ know how I feel about it. And no, I will not pay for it. I am nothing short of disgusted by this, the capability is there, paid $5.500,- for it and still have to pay more to use its full potential?


Last edited by Flying_Norseman; 05-17-2019 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 05-18-2019, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Flying_Norseman View Post
No, I didn’t buy a Boeing 737 MAX, but I have the exact same feeling as those that did. Can you believe this crap:





I was nothing less than shocked. Just paid $5.500,- for a radar and the first thing I see is a sticker asking me to pay more to use it? Yes, I will voice my opinion to Simrad, and yes I will let HQ know how I feel about it. And no, I will not pay for it. I am nothing short of disgusted by this, the capability is there, paid $5.500,- for it and still have to pay more to use its full potential?







I’ll save you some time and give you Simrad’s response. Go buy a similar radar setup from a competitor and you’ll pay more even if you didn’t want the Doppler tracking feature. Simrad gives you the option to not purchase it if you feel you won’t need it. It keeps the initial costs down and the consumer gets to decide whether they want the feature or not.

Would you be as upset if it was a standard feature, that you didn’t want, but you had no choice and they sold for $6,000?

It’s a $500 upgrade if you want it, or savings towards gas or bait if you didn’t. Life’s too short to stress over being given a choice.

If this was a purchase you made yourself without the help of an electronics professional, then you have no one to blame but yourself for the lack of knowledge on the product. If you elected someone to assist with your purchase, you should be upset with them and not Simrad.

Last edited by davidwademarine; 05-18-2019 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 05-18-2019, 05:43 AM
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I see both sides of this. I find the Simrad site to just be above useless on a lot information gathering. Sometimes you just want to to get a comparison of features or have a good understanding of a system before you go and discuss with a dealer/installer. I have also had conflicting information given to me by professionals and when calling and chatting with Simrad have been given info that was just blatantly incorrect. This forum has been the most helpful.

With regard to the Veloctiy Track it appears to be included in the Halo24 that I am considering. At least that's my understanding. And, it does say on the Simrad website that it is an $$ upgrade on the Halo open arrays. So, there's that...


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Old 05-18-2019, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by davidwademarine View Post


I’ll save you some time and give you Simrad’s response. Go buy a similar radar setup from a competitor and you’ll pay more even if you didn’t want the Doppler tracking feature. Simrad gives you the option to not purchase it if you feel you won’t need it. It keeps the initial costs down and the consumer gets to decide whether they want the feature or not.

Would you be as upset if it was a standard feature, that you didn’t want, but you had no choice and they sold for $6,000?

It’s a $500 upgrade if you want it, or savings towards gas or bait if you didn’t. Life’s too short to stress over being given a choice.

If this was a purchase you made yourself without the help of an electronics professional, then you have no one to blame but yourself for the lack of knowledge on the product. If you elected someone to assist with your purchase, you should be upset with them and not Simrad.
Wow, just like Boeing said initially after the crashes. It’s not a matter of knowledge, it’s a matter of nickel and dime mentality. Regardless of what anyone thinks, I am not impressed and will not purchase another Simrad product. Simple really.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:36 AM
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i had no clue about this feature, but i dont see the need for it to be honest except to save a few seconds of time....unless im missing something.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:50 AM
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Something my Dad taught me - "free" means you have to pay for it.

We got a $500 discount for not getting it.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:06 AM
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I get your frustration. I researched and read everything on all the different brands and what you get for the money and the ease of operation for someone who is a total novice is unmatched. I knew that was an upgrade because it says it on the description. I hope you get to know and like the equipment you purchased because nothing sucks more than buyers remorse on something like an extensive boat electronics purchase and install. I actually purchased and unlocked the update one night after being over-served (by wife) and sitting on the trailer in my driveway and connected to home network...lol. I like it and have no regrets.

https://www.simrad-yachting.com/simr...l_key_featuresKey Features

  • True 64nm range with 4-foot open array antenna
  • Beam Sharpening for enhanced target separation
  • Simultaneous Dual Range operation
  • Dedicated Harbour, Offshore, Weather, and Bird modes
  • High-speed 48 RPM operation for rapid updates
  • Ready instantly from standby, and in 16-25 seconds from power-on
  • MARPA target tracking (up to 10 targets, 20 in dual range)
  • Optional VelocityTrack™ Doppler upgrade for collision avoidance

I guess you could compare it to buying a Tesla or electric golf carts. You have to buy unlock codes for more performance

Last edited by Vantaredoc; 05-18-2019 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:06 AM
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So maybe the halo is more like the Spirit Airlines of radars?
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:11 AM
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You have a very skewed way of looking at this. As you can see, other Halo4 owner’s either are unaware of as well or don’t require the VelocityTrack feature. We have sold and installed at least 20 Halo4s in the last 2 years and I don’t know of any of our customers to download it either. Go enjoy the rest of the awesomeness of the Halo and you’ll soon forget about this. Hold out long enough and it may even come for free in a future software update.

tsunami7 is right, VelocityTrack comes already on the Halo24 dome.
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Old 05-18-2019, 01:03 PM
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I think you need to let it go and enjoy your new Radar. You got everything you paid for. Unlockable features are not dishonest. Simrad does the same with their GO series plotter, where you pay extra to unlock the network port. My Ram 2500 has GPS built in, but wants $500 to unlock it. Examples of this strategy are everywhere. You have a choice. Make it and move on. Don't let it take away from your enjoyment of a great piece of gear.
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Old 05-18-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ericf1 View Post
I think you need to let it go and enjoy your new Radar. You got everything you paid for. Unlockable features are not dishonest. Simrad does the same with their GO series plotter, where you pay extra to unlock the network port. My Ram 2500 has GPS built in, but wants $500 to unlock it. Examples of this strategy are everywhere. You have a choice. Make it and move on. Don't let it take away from your enjoyment of a great piece of gear.
You might be right with that assessment. I’m sure I will enjoy it as is, but when it comes time to expand the system this will be put on the negotiation table. I bought the Radar, autopilot, chirp finder, 16”NSO, XM Weather module, and a few other pieces. Future upgrade will be two 19” NSO’s.
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Old 05-18-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by davidwademarine View Post
You have a very skewed way of looking at this. As you can see, other Halo4 owner’s either are unaware of as well or don’t require the VelocityTrack feature. We have sold and installed at least 20 Halo4s in the last 2 years and I don’t know of any of our customers to download it either. Go enjoy the rest of the awesomeness of the Halo and you’ll soon forget about this. Hold out long enough and it may even come for free in a future software update.

tsunami7 is right, VelocityTrack comes already on the Halo24 dome.
Maybe I do, or maybe not. It is a safety feature and its locked. Imagine the lawsuits they are asking for when boats equipped with this will crash. It is the exact same scenario as Boeing did with their 737 MAX. 300 dead people later they admit it, and will never deliver another 737 MAX without that SAFETY option. Not that I think 300 people will die from this, but 1 is 1 too many if it could have been avoided instead of being locked for nickel and dime mentality. I can see other features being locked, but I cannot for the life of me see safety being jeopardized for greed. Simple really....
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Old 05-18-2019, 04:48 PM
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When Halo was introduced as the first solid state open array radar for the leisure market it didn't have VelocityTrack. Then competitors came to the matket with radars with Doppler processing, these radars were more expensive than Halo. When VelocityTrack was ready Navico had three options, giving away for free, increase the price or selling an unlock key.

I think selling an unlock key is fair. If you don't need it you don't have to pay for it, with the unlock key those which had already bought Halo without VelocityTrack also have to pay to get the functionality, not only those buying the radar after VelocityTrack was introduced. Even after paying the unlock Halo is cheaper than the competitors.
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Old 05-18-2019, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tsunami7 View Post
I see both sides of this. I find the Simrad site to just be above useless on a lot information gathering. Sometimes you just want to to get a comparison of features or have a good understanding of a system before you go and discuss with a dealer/installer. I have also had conflicting information given to me by professionals and when calling and chatting with Simrad have been given info that was just blatantly incorrect. This forum has been the most helpful.

With regard to the Veloctiy Track it appears to be included in the Halo24 that I am considering. At least that's my understanding. And, it does say on the Simrad website that it is an $$ upgrade on the Halo open arrays. So, there's that...
Can confirm, my Halo 24 came unlocked.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by abbor View Post
When Halo was introduced as the first solid state open array radar for the leisure market it didn't have VelocityTrack. Then competitors came to the matket with radars with Doppler processing, these radars were more expensive than Halo. When VelocityTrack was ready Navico had three options, giving away for free, increase the price or selling an unlock key.

I think selling an unlock key is fair. If you don't need it you don't have to pay for it, with the unlock key those which had already bought Halo without VelocityTrack also have to pay to get the functionality, not only those buying the radar after VelocityTrack was introduced. Even after paying the unlock Halo is cheaper than the competitors.
Thanks for you input Abbor. I see your point, but still think its a safety feature that should not be locked. Not to mention that I just paid $25K in Simrad gear, just to find they want another $500,- from me to use it to its full potential. To me that’s nothing but pure greed, and I seriously have second thoughts about Simrad. Like you, I am also from Norway, and although I expect this greed from American companies, I do not expect it from Simrad. Ever heard of Swang AS? I started it in 1991 together with my Dad.
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Old 05-19-2019, 01:22 AM
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So you would have felt better paying $25,500 initially for your system I'm surprised you were not informed about this before you bought the radar, the two largest Simrad dealers west of Oslo are both very knowledgeable.

I'm sure we will see more of such pricing models in the future. More and more of the functionality of marine electronics are implemented in software, the companies need to get paid for this. They can either have a price covering everything including future improvements or they can have a lower base price and charge for premium additional functions.

I've visited Swang a few times when going to Nordisk Fiskeutstyr.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by abbor View Post
...
I'm sure we will see more of such pricing models in the future. More and more of the functionality of marine electronics are implemented in software, the companies need to get paid for this. They can either have a price covering everything including future improvements or they can have a lower base price and charge for premium additional functions.
...
When simrad implemented this “pay for software feature upgrade” strategy a while back, I was worried that it would become the norm in the industry. Thankfully it has not (although this could change). I think it was more of a test balloon to see how we consumers would react. Just based on this thread (not very scientific), it doesn’t seem that it’s working out too well—we’ve got a seriously annoyed customer and reports that very few customers are paying the upgrade fee.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Flying_Norseman View Post


Maybe I do, or maybe not. It is a safety feature and its locked. Imagine the lawsuits they are asking for when boats equipped with this will crash. It is the exact same scenario as Boeing did with their 737 MAX. 300 dead people later they admit it, and will never deliver another 737 MAX without that SAFETY option. Not that I think 300 people will die from this, but 1 is 1 too many if it could have been avoided instead of being locked for nickel and dime mentality. I can see other features being locked, but I cannot for the life of me see safety being jeopardized for greed. Simple really....
Simrad’s Halo radar has been on the market since 2015. How many crashes with Halo equipped boats have you heard of? I don’t know of any. I promise I know a lot more people than yourself using Halo radar. Guess what? They’re all alive and well, along with their boat. If this was such a ‘safety issue’ then numerous stories would litter the internet of people crashing their Halo equipped boats into everything in the water. You’re completely over thinking this and blowing this way out of proportion.

How many years did you, or anyone else, go out on the water without a Doppler equipped, solid state radar? Are you telling me that before VelocityTrack that boats were just crashing into any and everything on the water? It must be a miracle of God that you or any one of us are still alive to tell the tales.

Originally Posted by chainsaw42 View Post
When simrad implemented this “pay for software feature upgrade” strategy a while back, I was worried that it would become the norm in the industry. Thankfully it has not (although this could change). I think it was more of a test balloon to see how we consumers would react. Just based on this thread (not very scientific), it doesn’t seem that it’s working out too well—we’ve got a seriously annoyed customer and reports that very few customers are paying the upgrade fee.
Sounds like a lot of people are smart enough to realize that they have a choice in the matter and they don’t need a certain optional feature and have elected to not purchase it.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by davidwademarine View Post


Simrad’s Halo radar has been on the market since 2015. How many crashes with Halo equipped boats have you heard of? I don’t know of any. I promise I know a lot more people than yourself using Halo radar. Guess what? They’re all alive and well, along with their boat. If this was such a ‘safety issue’ then numerous stories would litter the internet of people crashing their Halo equipped boats into everything in the water. You’re completely over thinking this and blowing this way out of proportion.

How many years did you, or anyone else, go out on the water without a Doppler equipped, solid state radar? Are you telling me that before VelocityTrack that boats were just crashing into any and everything on the water? It must be a miracle of God that you or any one of us are still alive to tell the tales.



Sounds like a lot of people are smart enough to realize that they have a choice in the matter and they don’t need a certain optional feature and have elected to not purchase it.
You are missing the point buddy. Hopefully we won’t see too much of this in the future. What I would like to see, and be willing to pay extra for, is an anti theft feature. Disable it remotely, add pin code, fingerprint recognition, whatever it takes to make my device useless for anybody but me. Now that would be innovative and something I can see them making an extra buck on, not safety features.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by abbor View Post
So you would have felt better paying $25,500 initially for your system I'm surprised you were not informed about this before you bought the radar, the two largest Simrad dealers west of Oslo are both very knowledgeable.

I'm sure we will see more of such pricing models in the future. More and more of the functionality of marine electronics are implemented in software, the companies need to get paid for this. They can either have a price covering everything including future improvements or they can have a lower base price and charge for premium additional functions.

I've visited Swang a few times when going to Nordisk Fiskeutstyr.
I no longer reside in Norway, immigrated to the US a decade ago. When Dad got sick we sold the store and the new location down on the dock was not a big hit with the customers. Nevertheless, we might have met at some point in time, and again thanks for your input, highly appreciated. I hope you, as well as others on this thread, will chime in when I start mounting all these pieces and answer any questions I will have in that regards. The antennas and the hardware to mount them is out to powdercoat/paint and the assembly will start shortly.
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