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NOAA messing with snapper season again

Old 09-24-2020, 05:00 AM
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Default NOAA messing with snapper season again

I sure hope this gets shut down quickly.

https://ccalouisiana.com/new1/news/f...f-red-snapper/

Washington, D.C. September 23, 2020 – Just two years after approving a plan to allow the Gulf states to develop their own recreational data collection systems to better manage red snapper and certifying those state programs, NOAA Fisheries intends to force the states to calibrate their data back to the flawed federal data system that caused significant turmoil in the first place. This federal data system, Marine Recreational Information Program (MRIP), has been widely criticized by many in the recreational fishing community, the states and in Congress, and its limitations are what led each of the states to develop their own data collection systems.

In recent communications to the states, NOAA Fisheries indicated it will adjust state harvest data to be more in line with MRIP and show that Texas, Alabama and Mississippi have overfished their quotas by significant margins. If NOAA Fisheries is successful, it would likely mean that private boat recreational anglers in Alabama would not have any season at all in federal waters for the next one to two years, and Mississippi anglers would be shut down for the next three years. After sending its recreational data to NOAA Fisheries 39 times over the past two and a half years, Texas was first notified a few weeks ago that NOAA Fisheries had elected to apply a different approach to the length-to-weight conversion in the state’s data and determined the state was overfishing its quota. Rather than work through the new formula going forward, the agency placed a notice in the Federal Register announcing its intent to take the overage out of future seasons. As a result, Texas anglers will face a 2021 season of just a couple of days in federal waters.

“There is clearly some gamesmanship going on, and rather than treat it as a partnership, NOAA Fisheries seems to want to continue its adversarial relationship with the states and with recreational anglers,” said Ted Venker, conservation director for Coastal Conservation Association. “The federal system for recreational anglers was so poor and untimely that the Gulf Council passed Amendment 50 to allow the states to develop their own systems. After the states invested the time and money to build more timely and accurate data systems and operated them for more than two years, NOAA Fisheries now comes back and says that all the new data must be converted back into its flawed system for management purposes. And it puts us right back where we were before Amendment 50 was adopted. It is absurd.”

In response, more than a dozen Gulf Coast Congressmen have signed a letter urging U.S. Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross to prevent any action on the calibration of state harvest data to federal data until at least the Great Red Snapper Count is completed. The snapper count is a two-year, intensive stock assessment being conducted by more than a dozen marine research institutions across the Gulf Coast that was authorized and funded by Congress due to a lack of confidence in NOAA Fisheries’ own assessment work. The letter further asks that the Secretary use his authority under Public Law 109-479(g) to declare the data from the Gulf States as the best available science to inform future management decisions.

“When red snapper management completely failed in 2017, the five Gulf states and Congress realized NOAA Fisheries does not have the tools or the will to properly manage this fishery, and they took significant steps to remedy the situation,” said Jeff Angers, president of the Center for Sportfishing Policy. “Since then, we have seen the most successful red snapper seasons in the Gulf in the last decade, but unfortunately, NOAA Fisheries seems intent on going back to business as usual.”

“This all comes down to which is considered the ‘best available science,’” said Chris Horton, director of fisheries policy for the Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation. “MRIP was never designed to manage to in-season closures, so the states developed their own programs in order to provide their anglers with more access without going over the quotas. Now that they’ve proven they can very successfully manage the harvest during the season, the state programs – not MRIP – should be declared to be the best available science to inform Gulf red snapper management.”
Old 09-24-2020, 07:20 AM
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wow!!!
Sound about right...
Old 09-24-2020, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by SaltyRhino View Post
I. As a result, Texas anglers will face a 2021 season of just a couple of days in federal waters.
.”
If this happens, guess I will go outlaw and ignore FED rules and only follow Texas Regs for all species.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:37 AM
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when you can clearly follow the money from the Ocean Conservancy - to the pockets of politicians on the Gulf Concil / NOAA is it not bribery to get what they want?
Old 09-24-2020, 09:25 AM
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Just about time to defund NOAA, are they not in charge of the National Weather Service as well?
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Old 09-24-2020, 10:20 AM
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Got the email from CCA last night. I read the whole thing and came away thinking this is a coordinated end run around the management plan that took years of effort to get in place. The commercials are behind it. Texas and Mississippi need to get their suits ready for filing as I'm not sure there is a political solution to this.
Old 09-24-2020, 11:46 AM
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I told y'all this a while back: Gulf Council - Snapper - It Never Ends

Do you think this being an election year is a coincidence? Hell no. In 2017 Obama/Jane Lubchenco had us on track for 3 days of snapper fishing. "Let them fish" said the man with the orange hair - arbitrarily granting us 40 fishing days that year and forcing the hand to state management. Those male rooster soft air vacuum liberals have been laying in wait ever since. This alone is reason enough to keep the Donald at the job. This is just another moved by those d@#$ suc*(&#g fu)(ing liberals to take away the freedom to fish because they're so arrogant in their own self-deluded fu#@$d up environmental beliefs. God @#$@ all the f@#$$@g liberals to hell.

Mississippi will cast its electoral votes for Trump. You boys in Florida are in play however. Vote early, vote often.

I will pen letters today to Congress and the Council, but bet your ass any chance in policy is directly tied to whomever gets to appoint the next Secretary of Commerce.

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Old 09-24-2020, 12:24 PM
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Not that it is the same as having a federally opened season but with LA and MS state waters extended to 9 miles whats to stop the states from going state only seasons again if the feds shut down the season?
Old 09-24-2020, 01:43 PM
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So why just Alabama, Mississippi and Texas? Seems like it would be all of them? Are we letting enough commercials catch fish out of Lousiana so they taking it easy on us?
Old 09-24-2020, 03:12 PM
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Ala, Miss., and Texas all used their own method of accounting for catch and effort. FL used MRIP (federal model) and LA Creel uses an almost identical method as MRIP. The Feds could also "calibrate" FL and LA if they wanted and screw them over too. But divide and conquer is the strategy (remember when the Gulf Council created a separate charter sector just to add division). Florida will complain it is entitled to more pounds and don't you know the Feds will give it to them if they just sign on to screwing MS, AL and TX. Sure, MS can go no compliant, but again, if the left gets the power they can withhold all manner of money from poor ass MS and get the state agency (unelected bureaucrats) to dance to its tune. It is not too long ago to remember "being given" a 3 day snapper season. And for those of you who aren't passionate about snapper fishing - think about this, once they've locked up the snapper fishery do you really think these leftist male rooster air vacuums will say, "all good now, let's disband"?
Old 09-24-2020, 04:30 PM
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I cannot speak about florida but LACREEL was MRUP certified one of the first years it was done. That helps louisiana tremendously.
Old 09-24-2020, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SaltyRhino View Post
I sure hope this gets shut down quickly.

https://ccalouisiana.com/new1/news/f...f-red-snapper/

Washington, D.C. September 23, 2020 – Just two years after approving a plan to allow the Gulf states to develop their own recreational data collection systems to better manage red snapper and certifying those state programs, NOAA Fisheries intends to force the states to calibrate their data back to the flawed federal data system that caused significant turmoil in the first place. This federal data system, Marine Recreational Information Program (MRIP), has been widely criticized by many in the recreational fishing community, the states and in Congress, and its limitations are what led each of the states to develop their own data collection systems.

In recent communications to the states, NOAA Fisheries indicated it will adjust state harvest data to be more in line with MRIP and show that Texas, Alabama and Mississippi have overfished their quotas by significant margins. If NOAA Fisheries is successful, it would likely mean that private boat recreational anglers in Alabama would not have any season at all in federal waters for the next one to two years, and Mississippi anglers would be shut down for the next three years. After sending its recreational data to NOAA Fisheries 39 times over the past two and a half years, Texas was first notified a few weeks ago that NOAA Fisheries had elected to apply a different approach to the length-to-weight conversion in the state’s data and determined the state was overfishing its quota. Rather than work through the new formula going forward, the agency placed a notice in the Federal Register announcing its intent to take the overage out of future seasons. As a result, Texas anglers will face a 2021 season of just a couple of days in federal waters.

“There is clearly some gamesmanship going on, and rather than treat it as a partnership, NOAA Fisheries seems to want to continue its adversarial relationship with the states and with recreational anglers,” said Ted Venker, conservation director for Coastal Conservation Association. “The federal system for recreational anglers was so poor and untimely that the Gulf Council passed Amendment 50 to allow the states to develop their own systems. After the states invested the time and money to build more timely and accurate data systems and operated them for more than two years, NOAA Fisheries now comes back and says that all the new data must be converted back into its flawed system for management purposes. And it puts us right back where we were before Amendment 50 was adopted. It is absurd.”

In response, more than a dozen Gulf Coast Congressmen have signed a letter urging U.S. Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross to prevent any action on the calibration of state harvest data to federal data until at least the Great Red Snapper Count is completed. The snapper count is a two-year, intensive stock assessment being conducted by more than a dozen marine research institutions across the Gulf Coast that was authorized and funded by Congress due to a lack of confidence in NOAA Fisheries’ own assessment work. The letter further asks that the Secretary use his authority under Public Law 109-479(g) to declare the data from the Gulf States as the best available science to inform future management decisions.

“When red snapper management completely failed in 2017, the five Gulf states and Congress realized NOAA Fisheries does not have the tools or the will to properly manage this fishery, and they took significant steps to remedy the situation,” said Jeff Angers, president of the Center for Sportfishing Policy. “Since then, we have seen the most successful red snapper seasons in the Gulf in the last decade, but unfortunately, NOAA Fisheries seems intent on going back to business as usual.”

“This all comes down to which is considered the ‘best available science,’” said Chris Horton, director of fisheries policy for the Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation. “MRIP was never designed to manage to in-season closures, so the states developed their own programs in order to provide their anglers with more access without going over the quotas. Now that they’ve proven they can very successfully manage the harvest during the season, the state programs – not MRIP – should be declared to be the best available science to inform Gulf red snapper management.”

ok all your trump boat parade people, light Potus up. If we wants your support make him earn it.
Old 09-24-2020, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by snapperkiller View Post
I cannot speak about florida but LACREEL was MRUP certified one of the first years it was done. That helps louisiana tremendously.

Children, I freaking told you so. And this doesn’t have shit to do with the liberals. Did they mess with commercial fisherman one damn bit. You want the names of people involved: Start with the Doug Horn and crew out of Pascagoula.

This is about money and commercial domination of a fisheries. I fought these Mfers for 20 years. I hate to tell you boys but they are almost all from our party, the GOP. Tent Lott was their best paid for representative, but John Breaux was with him for a while until CCA got involved.


And all you Louisiana boys, your federal judge dismissed the last lawsuit by CCA. And to the Texas crew, the would from the knife your party boats stuck in our backs 20 years ago when we tried to stop this bullshit will never heal.

They want all red snapper catch’s to belong to charter boats and commercials. The fact that it’s a agenda 21 item is just a bonus.

No clue wtf I am talking about it? Zero surprise
Old 09-24-2020, 09:34 PM
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I'm sure the officials from these 3 states have been aware of this "calculation" problem for the last 2 years. The fact that they wouldn't do anything to correct the issue could be why this is happening now. There is no way this hasn't been getting discussed between the feds and states. I'm sure we would all like to know which state beaurocrats, if any, allowed this happen without taking any action to get more in line with what the feds were asking for.
Old 09-25-2020, 03:30 AM
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I'd like to know why NOAA thinks their random dockside surveys are more accurate than MS Tails n Scales which captures data for every trip taken.
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Old 09-25-2020, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by pooldoo73 View Post
I'm sure the officials from these 3 states have been aware of this "calculation" problem for the last 2 years. The fact that they wouldn't do anything to correct the issue could be why this is happening now. There is no way this hasn't been getting discussed between the feds and states. I'm sure we would all like to know which state bureaucrats, if any, allowed this happen without taking any action to get more in line with what the feds were asking for.
The Ocean Conservancy launched their effort this year. NOAA started the issue in June and set a workshop August 5, 2020, to (Allegedly) see if a "common currency" of fish data could be reached. MS MDR was as prepared as it could be for this "workshop". Dr. Mickle from MDR presented this in defense of TNS. https://gulfcouncil.org/wp-content/u...ies_Vers.3.pdf gave this presentation.

I personally spoke with Matt Hill of MS MDR about this issue. Matt was a leader on the team that created Tails n' Scales. His professional pride is absolutely shaken by this turn of events. He and others set a new standard for real time tracking of catch and effort in a fishery and he was proud it got his constituents more fishing days. Personally he was a big part of a noted achievement in fishery management. Call Matt yourself and ask him. What floors him the most is the loss of credibility to anglers this is going to create. I emailed with Kevin Anson of Alabama DNR. He also was totally against bending state data to match the f'd up federal data. But he was very naive when it comes to the punishment coming down the pike for alleged over-fishing.

Write a letter to your US Congressman and Wilber Ross, Secretary of Commerce at U.S. Department of Commerce, 1401 Constitution Ave NW, Washington, DC 20230, plus your state head of DMR/DNR and copy your local legislators. I did yesterday.
Old 09-25-2020, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackfish2800 View Post
And this doesn’t have shit to do with the liberals.
I hate to quibble, as you're a fisherman that enjoys fishing like I do. But Yes, it has everything to do with liberals.

Who ended the 3 day snapper season?: https://www.al.com/news/mobile/2017/...p_adminis.html https://whnt.com/news/feds-gulf-stat...l-red-snapper/

Who seeks the jam it back? https://oceanconservancy.org/wp-cont...mary_FINAL.pdf

Do you really believe that the guy Biden appoints to NOAA is going to be more like Wilbur Ross, or, more like Jane Lubchenko? While a secondary source, let's revisit some recent history of the Obama/Biden administration: https://www.fishnet-usa.com/All%20St...Stacked%20Deck

The commercial fishing interests are just whores, the big moneyed EDF, Ocean Conservancy, and Pew Trusts are the pimp. I know I am not going to (and I ain't trying to) sway your political persuasion or your party affiliation if you have one. But be honest, the folks trying to lock up recreational fishing are liberals.
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Old 09-25-2020, 06:40 AM
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There are a great many millionaires and billionaires who are uber liberal/uber conservative, this is strictly business and party affiliation is just there to determine which crooked politician you get in bed with.
Old 09-25-2020, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by pooldoo73 View Post
I'm sure we would all like to know which state beaurocrats, if any, allowed this happen without taking any action to get more in line with what the feds were asking for.

**** that, we need less FED involvement in REC fisheries, not more.

The only REC fisheries that are screwed up are the ones that the FED's are involved with. States, all of them across the gulf manage a wide diversity of fish from fresh, bay to gulf without problems until the FEDs get involved. FED's are the problem, not the solution.

FED Big government one size fit all management is a failure. Each state should mange there own waters, Reef fish caught in Florida should have no bearing on how many fish can be caught in Texas. The whole FED system is bullshit.
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:00 PM
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It’s all total bullshit. In Texas we have so many snapper you can drift a wreck or reef with a flat line for kingfish and cat all the snapper you want. It’s so damn bad that you have to use a big live bait to even get an Amberjack to look at it because the snapper swarm anything small. The Federal bureaucrats are siding with the commercials because the Coms lining their pockets with $$.
Well , that seems like the same high level of corruption that we’re trying to prevent from continuing . Grrrrrrrrrr

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